Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[zlev11]

yep, you're right. i stand corrected. i guess i should have found the post in question instead of relying on my memory.

i think i had actually remembered this post here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1489472&postcount=6350

but he later contradicted himself, i suppose.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It showed that Tiernan-Locke’s suspicious biological passport test on September 22 2012 showed a haemoglobin concentration of 17.9 g/dL, with the percentage of reticulocytes, or immature blood cells, at just 0.15%.

So, the real question should be: did Zorzoli call up on the Team Britain doctor to cool off JTL?

Or, how did he get through the super duper 'medical tests' at Team Slick?

Hahahaha, haemaglobine level of 18

 

[Dear Wiggo]

yep, you're right. i stand corrected. i guess i should have found the post in question instead of relying on my memory.

i think i had actually remembered this post here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1489472&postcount=6350

but he later contradicted himself, i suppose.

That's our JV.

 

[sniper]

this is what Smith said in his and JTL's defense coupla months back:

"[Garmin manager] Jonathan Vaughters got in contact and said there were no abnormalities in Jon's test," said Smith. "I think I even sent the results to [Sky]. They've seen all the data. As far as I'm concerned Jonathan is the real deal. Sky, Garmin and Endura all thought there were no irregularities with Jonathan."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/29/team-sky-jonathan-tiernan-locke-cycling
have garmin's test results been used for anything/ by anyone at all in this case?
has JTL used them in his defense, has UKAD requested them?

here Smith is clearly suggesting Vaughters wanted to hire JTL even after having tested him:

he agreed to go to Jonathan Vaughters [Team Garmin Sharp’s manager – ed.] to get tested. I think it was at the middle of March 2012. That has been documented and there were no irregularities. He [Vaughters] wanted to progress and try to sign him.”...
and Jonathan Vaughters is happy with the figures that he looked at.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...i-doping-violation-process.aspx#ixzz3DYHL4gcp

 

[hrotha]

here Smith is clearly suggesting Vaughters wanted to hire JTL even after having tested him:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...i-doping-violation-process.aspx#ixzz3DYHL4gcp

In the newest article, Vaughters said he was still interested, provided they could conduct more tests to get a clearer, less concerning picture, but JTL wasn't interested anymore. This isn't exactly a contradiction, is it?

 

[RownhamHill]

So, if I'm following correctly, the timeline looks something like:

- Early Spring, JTL rips up the races he's in, and people are interested in signing him. At the time dodges any Garmin testing.
- Mid March does a training camp with Sky
- Late March does blood and physiology tests with Garmin, both of which are unremarkable - loses interest in Garmin as heart is set on Sky.
- May does another training camp with Sky, where he's 'right up there' with other sky riders on interval tests (self-reportedly at least).
- June breaks his collar bone.
- Late August on Endura training camp
- Early September rips up ToB
- Late September signs for Sky, gets drunk (!) and has first blood passport test - which suggests he's been EPO and/or Blood doping between late August and then.
- A couple of days later top 20s the worlds, the first time ever over that distance
- Another day later has a medical with Sky that includes a blood test for 'screening' purposes.
- Rides the 2013 season for Team Sky with unremarkable blood passport, and unremarkable performances - complains about being over-trained.
- September 2013 notified he has been popped for BP anomalies.

Is that about right?

 

[BYOP88]

So, if I'm following correctly, the timeline looks something like:

- Early Spring, JTL rips up the races he's in, and people are interested in signing him. At the time dodges any Garmin testing.
- Mid March does a training camp with Sky
- Late March does blood and physiology tests with Garmin, both of which are unremarkable - loses interest in Garmin as heart is set on Sky.
- May does another training camp with Sky, where he's 'right up there' with other sky riders on interval tests (self-reportedly at least).
- June breaks his collar bone.
- Late August on Endura training camp
- Early September rips up ToB
- Late September signs for Sky, gets drunk (!) and has first blood passport test - which suggests he's been EPO and/or Blood doping between late August and then.
- A couple of days later top 20s the worlds, the first time ever over that distance
- Another day later has a medical with Sky that includes a blood test for 'screening' purposes.
- Rides the 2013 season for Team Sky with unremarkable blood passport, and unremarkable performances - complains about being over-trained.
- September 2013 notified he has been popped for BP anomalies.

Is that about right?

Correctamundo.

 

[sniper]

In the newest article, Vaughters said he was still interested, provided they could conduct more tests to get a clearer, less concerning picture, but JTL wasn't interested anymore. This isn't exactly a contradiction, is it?

fair point.

 

[RownhamHill]

Correctamundo.

It's certainly a very interesting timeline. A couple of observations leap-out:

- I wonder what he'd have done if he hadn't broken his collar bone in summer.

- If the OFF score in the September BP was so off the scale, why was there a year before the notification? I get the idea of creating the long-term trend to isolate the outlying points, but by all accounts the scores were so wacky that it's hard to imagine exactly what establishing a trend achieves (what would have happened had all his BP scores looked like this one did?)

- Why didn't Sky bother to analyse 'their' blood test for blood passport parameters? I can equally see both a ****-up and a conspiracy explanation, but either way it looks particularly bad.

But, stepping back, one of the biggest observations appears to be that not only do the drugs work (which we all know already), but it seems that (in 2012 at least) they allowed a pro-conti rider to suddenly operate at a pretty elite level, far beyond his 'basic' physiology (as evidenced by his presumably 'clean-ish' Garmin test). Which I guess could be used to argue that the pro-peloton might be cleaner than it is sometimes given credit for?

 

[del1962]

It's certainly a very interesting timeline. A couple of observations leap-out:

- I wonder what he'd have done if he hadn't broken his collar bone in summer.

- If the OFF score in the September BP was so off the scale, why was there a year before the notification? I get the idea of creating the long-term trend to isolate the outlying points, but by all accounts the scores were so wacky that it's hard to imagine exactly what establishing a trend achieves (what would have happened had all his BP scores looked like this one did?)

- Why didn't Sky bother to analyse 'their' blood test for blood passport parameters? I can equally see both a ****-up and a conspiracy explanation, but either way it looks particularly bad.

But, stepping back, one of the biggest observations appears to be that not only do the drugs work (which we all know already), but it seems that (in 2012 at least) they allowed a pro-conti rider to suddenly operate at a pretty elite level, far beyond his 'basic' physiology (as evidenced by his presumably 'clean-ish' Garmin test). Which I guess could be used to argue that the pro-peloton might be cleaner than it is sometimes given credit for?

I think endura were continental not pro-continental in 2012.

 

[neineinei]

He wasn't in the biological passport system for most of the year. Does that mean that he wasn't in the wherabouts system either? If so it was just like 2001 for him. No bio passport, no wherabouts, almost only in competition tests, and even when tested at Tour of Britain it wasn't for EPO.

But unlike Armstrong and Pantani JTL didn't have to worry about the pre race haematocrit screening

 

[roundabout]

And no testing in Haut-Var or TourMed which Martin pointed out.

 

[RownhamHill]

I think endura were continental not pro-continental in 2012.

Not sure I really know the difference to be honest - continental is worse somehow isn't it? It's fair to say cycling has a very opaque competitive pyramid!

 

[bigcog]

I think you are giving JV too much credit. This is what he first said:



That is not the sentence of someone hinting that a rider is not believable.

There was me thinking he said the opposite because of all the posts on here about it. Talk about twisting what JV said. Unbelievable, well probably not actually.

 

[fmk_RoI]

here Smith is clearly suggesting Vaughters wanted to hire JTL even after having tested him:

Read on and he is a lot more explicit:

VN: Did Garmin Sharp actually get to the point where they offered a contract?

BS: I think both Garmin and Sky were happy with signing Jon. You would have to speak to his agent [Andrew McQuaid] if there was an offer there [from Garmin]. But I think there was an offer.

 

[BYOP88]

Read on and he is a lot more explicit:

Well St. Jonathan of Vaughters may have wanted to sign him, after all he's paid Dekker for 3 years of nothing.

 

[themurph]

His results and obsfucation as regards testing should have raised alarm bells

 

[fmk_RoI]

He's baaaack .... and making the Beast with two wheels linkedylink

 

[the sceptic]

I’d like to stay involved which is why I’m riding today. I’m looking at some coaching things at the moment, trying to bring on some younger guys,”

The donkey to racehorse school?

1 free shot of EPO if you sign up today!

 

[fmk_RoI]

I’d like to stay involved which is why I’m riding today. I’m looking at some coaching things at the moment, trying to bring on some younger guys,”

Isn't that what David Millar said in 2004? Next stop for JTL, WADA's Athlete Commission and a book deal (Riding Through The Park?).

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/an-exclusive-interview-with-jonathan-tiernan-locke

The immediate response was ‘ok fine, we’ll deal with this. You’re going to Worlds.’ But there was a turnaround almost within a week. There must have been a board meeting or something and very quickly they came back to me. They didn’t want me to fabricate an excuse for not racing, like having an injury, but they advised me to say that I wasn’t feeling up to it, which was in itself a lie.

I guess the team wanted to find a way to navigate around the situation but they wanted me to be transparent, so they told me to keep it vague. I was told what to write on Twitter. I don’t think there was a leak from the UCI, I was just a number but that number conveniently went to David Walsh. I’m not sure how that came about and there are various theories.

 

[sniper]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/an-exclusive-interview-with-jonathan-tiernan-locke

"there are various theories", JTL says, and Daniel Benson doesn't ask.

then JTL says

There are other riders out there that have had these letters, it’s been kept private, and then the letters have gone away, quite high-profile people actually.

and again Daniel Benson doesn't ask.

Daniel, perhaps it's time to start being a journalist?

 

[Race Radio]

CN: How did Team Sky treat you during the whole process?

JTL: My opinion is that they were quite hands off.......‘we’re going to take more of a backseat and let the process happen.’......

I felt, that they wanted me to disappear. That really grated with me because I felt there was no support. Then I went home and had already been stung with one legal bill so I started to get a new [legal] team together........

other team’s athletes, like you’ve seen in the [Roman] Kreuziger case, have given more support. There was no support.....

....addressing the original UCI letter cost me well in excess of £20,000. Tip of the iceberg. Of course I incurred significant costs in the months preceding my hearing......

So much for the invented claim that Sky was paying for, and directing, his legal team

 

[LeakyLens]

"there are various theories", JTL says, and Daniel Benson doesn't ask.

then JTL says and again Daniel Benson doesn't ask.

Daniel, perhaps it's time to start being a journalist?

Perhaps he did ask, perhaps Tiernan-Locke responded and perhaps Benson couldn't confirm the claims made by Tiernan-Locke, so he decided not to publish the claims.

Ah, the pitfalls of being a journalist compared to the noble surroundings of a libellous doping forum.

 

[Benotti69]

So much for the invented claim that Sky was paying for, and directing, his legal team

We can hardly believe JTL now can we?