Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[blackcat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ycling-possible-discrepancies-blood-data.html

So if a rider can give the above excuses for abnormal values the BP is worth nothing.

usually good for jv. another good one, is the calibration of the analytic technology is skewed.

 

[sniper]

usually good for jv. another good one, is the calibration of the analytic technology is skewed.

interesting to recall that according to Race Radio McQuaid has in the last months/years been particularly eager to get a positive from Katusha and Garmin.
I'm not sure how reliable RR's sources are these days, but if correct, there are different ways to interpret that. One interpretation is that McQuaid at least assumes Garmin are or have been doping, otherwise why would he be looking for a positive.
By the way, where would RR get such information? Do such rumors just walk through the grapevine?
Could perhaps also explain in part why Garmin has been having a mediocre GT season?

to stay on topic: if RR is right, i.e. if mcquaid was looking for positives at garmin/katusha, that might suggest the JTL case does not carry his signature.

 

[hrotha]

interesting to recall that according to Race Radio McQuaid has in the last months/years been particularly eager to get a positive from Katusha and Garmin.

Link?jjjjjjjj

 

[sniper]

Sky is an essentially an extension of British cycling. Cookson is Pat's biggest critic. Garmin and Katusha were Pat's targets

ok, so correction: according to RR, the JTL case could be Pat's work after all.

 

[blackcat]

I'm not sure how reliable RR's sources are these days, but if correct, there are different ways to interpret that. One interpretation is that McQuaid at least assumes Garmin are or have been doping, otherwise why would he be looking for a positive.
By the way, where would RR get such information? Do such rumors just walk through the grapevine?

dare say, RR has the best sources in cycling.

and if I was unctuous and/or american, i would say "period". "full stop".

but if RR does not have the best sources in pro-cycling, there would be only a few from europe who have access to the equivalent trove (because he is dialled into those off the continent, unlike aigle or the lowlands)

 

[hrotha]

Sniper, you have a way with jumping to conclusions, I gotta give you that.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ycling-possible-discrepancies-blood-data.html

So if a rider can give the above excuses for abnormal values the BP is worth nothing.

Was this mentioned before or has this only come to Brailsfords attention now that one of his riders is known to be under investigation?

 

[sniper]

dare say, RR has the best sources in cycling.

and if I was unctuous and/or american, i would say "period". "full stop".

but if RR does not have the best sources in pro-cycling, because he is dialled into those off the continent, unlike aigle or the lowlands, there would be only a few from europe who has access to the equivalent trove.

RR gets alot of his primary data/rumors directly from JV, doesn't he?
So how would JV get his ear onto such a rumor? Gripper?

 

[sniper]

Sniper, you have a way with jumping to conclusions, I gotta give you that.

to be sure, i'm just speculating, thinking out loud.

there are different ways to interpret that.

 

[Race Radio]

interesting to recall that according to Race Radio McQuaid has in the last months/years been particularly eager to get a positive from Katusha and Garmin.
I'm not sure how reliable RR's sources are these days, but if correct, there are different ways to interpret that. One interpretation is that McQuaid at least assumes Garmin are or have been doping, otherwise why would he be looking for a positive.
By the way, where would RR get such information? Do such rumors just walk through the grapevine?
Could perhaps also explain in part why Garmin has been having a mediocre GT season?

to stay on topic: if RR is right, i.e. if mcquaid was looking for positives at garmin/katusha, that might suggest the JTL case does not carry his signature.

That is not what I wrote. I wrote that McQuaid has been targeting his critics. There are many ways this can happen, not all are connected with doping. A good public example is Pat denying Katusha's ProTour license.

Sorry, I am not going to talk about sources or non-public information but I can say that there is a reason that so few DS' and managers came out against Pat, they were scared of becoming a target. They had heard the rumors. They got the message.

To clarify on JTL, my point was that targeting a lower level rider on a team of one of his critics is Pat's MO. I have heard nothing that legitimately connects JTL's issues with Pat but I have heard of him using similar tactics with other riders.

Lastly: there are many ways that a critic can be harassed that do not result in a positive test, or even are connected to doping

 

[Race Radio]

RR gets alot of his primary data/rumors directly from JV, doesn't he?

No, not even close.

 

[sniper]

No, not even close.

ok, i guess i went out of line speculating about this, for which apologies.

dare say, RR has the best sources in cycling.

this at any rate.

 

[sniper]

That is not what I wrote. I wrote that McQuaid has been targeting his critics. There are many ways this can happen, not all are connected with doping. A good public example is Pat denying Katusha's ProTour license.

Sorry, I am not going to talk about sources or non-public information but I can say that there is a reason that so few DS' and managers came out against Pat, they were scared of becoming a target. They had heard the rumors. They got the message.

To clarify on JTL, my point was that targeting a lower level rider on a team of one of his critics is Pat's MO. I have heard nothing that legitimately connects JTL's issues with Pat but I have heard of him using similar tactics with other riders.

Lastly: there are many ways that a critic can be harassed that do not result in a positive test, or even are connected to doping

thanks for the interesting clarifications.

 

[Benotti69]

That is not what I wrote. I wrote that McQuaid has been targeting his critics. There are many ways this can happen, not all are connected with doping. A good public example is Pat denying Katusha's ProTour license.

Sorry, I am not going to talk about sources or non-public information but I can say that there is a reason that so few DS' and managers came out against Pat, they were scared of becoming a target. They had heard the rumors. They got the message.

To clarify on JTL, my point was that targeting a lower level rider on a team of one of his critics is Pat's MO. I have heard nothing that legitimately connects JTL's issues with Pat but I have heard of him using similar tactics with other riders.

Lastly: there are many ways that a critic can be harassed that do not result in a positive test, or even are connected to doping

What were they scared of?

 

[Von Mises]

What were they scared of?

Well, I have read over years of many issues - TV rights, race radios, revenues, new races etc - where teams (or at least some teams) may have different opinions than UCI, but they do not want to express it publicly, beacause they are affraid of revenge. And there are probably many ways how UCI can make their life difficult (licensing is one of them).

 

[JRanton]

Have we decided who was most likely to have leaked this to Walsh? It's a curious one.

I find it hard to believe that someone from the UCI would have leaked it to Walsh given his history with them. Why not leak it to someone else?

On the other hand, you have Sky/British Cycling. Of course Walsh has got to know a lot of those people extremely well this year but again, you wouldn't have thought it would be in their interests for this to come out. For all we know the UCI might accept JTL's explanation for the change in values and we would never have needed to know about it. And that makes me think it wasn't leaked by any of the big hitters at Sky/British cycling. Probably someone lower down the feed chain. JTL has been publicly critical of how Sky has handled him this year and he admitted to ''having it out'' with his coach Shaun Stephens a few months ago...

 

[JRanton]

It's impossible to know what the motivation was. It could be as simple as someone unable to keep it all quiet inside the UCI. A sort of knowledge-is-power and this is how someone displays that political power. The *wildly* inconsistent anti-doping actions from the UCI coupled with the known widespread corruption just makes things more uncertain. Here's a fresh example: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-wants-georges-ban-extended-to-two-years

The tendency is for the UCI to sanction lower-level riders to manage doping at the elite level. IMHO, we saw it with the Colombian sanctions in 2013. That's about the only consistent thing the UCI does in regards to anti-doping.

JTL is right to be angry even if he doped for his Sky contract. Or, maybe he didn't dope for the Sky contract and Sky's training volume demands doping which got him nothing but fatigue. Or, as coineach hypothesized, Sky doesn't want him around and this is a great way to end a contract.

Trouble with that is Sky (presumably!) can't fire him unless action gets taken against him. So what benefit is there to leak it at this stage in the process?

 

[Benotti69]

Trouble with that is Sky (presumably!) can't fire him unless action gets taken against him. So what benefit is there to leak it at this stage in the process?

If JTL is making trouble at Sky this is a possible way to say. "you want to stay in the sport, be a good lad and go race elsewhere".

If McQuaid leaked it, it could be interpreted as a shot across the bows of Team Sky with the threat of other documents to be leaked unless 'sponsorship' or McQuaids retirement was 'funded'.

Read that some think Endura/NettApp will take him with Sky paying JTL his wage. If so it points to Sky wanting rid of him.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Surely there's easier ways to manage a rider out of a team without releasing rumours that potentially damage the team too.

Personally I think it's someone looking to embarrass BC, Cookson and Sky, esp given the timing. Cookson gets the presidency, a British rider has to explain his blood values the day after.

 

[sniper]

Surely there's easier ways to manage a rider out of a team without releasing rumours that potentially damage the team too.

agreed

Personally I think it's someone looking to embarrass BC, Cookson and Sky, esp given the timing. Cookson gets the presidency, a British rider has to explain his blood values the day after.

sure looks like it.

If McQuaid leaked it, it could be interpreted as a shot across the bows of Team Sky with the threat of other documents to be leaked unless 'sponsorship' or McQuaids retirement was 'funded'.

simple but brilliant.

 

[JRanton]

If JTL is making trouble at Sky this is a possible way to say. "you want to stay in the sport, be a good lad and go race elsewhere".

If McQuaid leaked it, it could be interpreted as a shot across the bows of Team Sky with the threat of other documents to be leaked unless 'sponsorship' or McQuaids retirement was 'funded'.

Read that some think Endura/NettApp will take him with Sky paying JTL his wage. If so it points to Sky wanting rid of him.

Re Sky: You don't need to leak details of this case in order to send JTL on his way to another team whilst still paying his wage. Why not just say it hasn't worked out and the rider and team has mutually agreed to part ways. It's not like they haven't released riders from their contracts before (Cavendish, Flecha, probably Rogers).

One thing we can knock on the head is that this leak is a good thing for Sky/British cycling. Joe Public reads this news and thinks ''Oh, Sky rider under investigation for doping''. He doesn't know who the heck Endura are or how the blood passport works and that any doping may have taken place before he joined the team.

I still find McQuaid unlikely for three reasons. Why leak it to Walsh (one of his biggest critics) and give him a great exclusive? Why damage a rider who is managed by your son? And why not leak it before the election took place?

The argument against my prime suspect, Shaun Stephens or someone of that ilk, is that he may have been too far down the food chain to have known about the JTL case in the first place.

 

[JRanton]

Surely there's easier ways to manage a rider out of a team without releasing rumours that potentially damage the team too.

Personally I think it's someone looking to embarrass BC, Cookson and Sky, esp given the timing. Cookson gets the presidency, a British rider has to explain his blood values the day after.

Someone with an axe to grind inside British cycling, not necessarily against JTL? That's possible, yes, and makes more sense with regards to Walsh being leaked the story (he'll know the person well).

 

[sniper]

...
I still find McQuaid unlikely for three reasons. Why leak it to Walsh (one of his biggest critics) and give him a great exclusive? Why damage a rider who is managed by your son? And why not leak it before the election took place?

perhaps that's how mcquaid knew JTL is an easy target in the first place, through his son.

 

[JRanton]

perhaps that's how mcquaid knew JTL is an easy target in the first place, through his son.

So you're saying that Pat found out about it through Andrew, and wasn't otherwise aware of it himself? I suppose that's possible, yes, but why leak the story to Walsh?

 

[sniper]

So you're saying that Pat found out about it through Andrew, and wasn't otherwise aware of it himself? I suppose that's possible, yes, but why leak the story to Walsh?

not saying much, just thinking out loud.
i have as little a clue as most here.

i must admit i like this theory for its simplicity:

If McQuaid leaked it, it could be interpreted as a shot across the bows of Team Sky with the threat of other documents to be leaked unless 'sponsorship' or McQuaids retirement was 'funded'.

but then i probably agree with at least two of the objections you raised against mcquaid being the leaker.

Why leak it to Walsh (one of his biggest critics) and give him a great exclusive? And why not leak it before the election took place?

good questions.