Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[sniper]

...
And why not leak it before the election took place?...

giving this a second thought:
leaking it before the elections would perhaps have been way too obvious, and thus counterproductive. also, before the elections, mcquaid still needed sky's support.

Why leak it to Walsh (one of his biggest critics) and give him a great exclusive?

good question, i don't know what the channels of transmission of such a leak usually are.

 

[Benotti69]

Re Sky: You don't need to leak details of this case in order to send JTL on his way to another team whilst still paying his wage. Why not just say it hasn't worked out and the rider and team has mutually agreed to part ways. It's not like they haven't released riders from their contracts before (Cavendish, Flecha, probably Rogers).

One thing we can knock on the head is that this leak is a good thing for Sky/British cycling. Joe Public reads this news and thinks ''Oh, Sky rider under investigation for doping''. He doesn't know who the heck Endura are or how the blood passport works and that any doping may have taken place before he joined the team.

Who knows the true shennagans that go on in the sport.

That the public already have a high level of doping associated to the sport of cycling, this is hardly going to damage BC/Sky. The rocking of a sky team car in the TdF by fans shouting at them proves that!

I still find McQuaid unlikely for three reasons. Why leak it to Walsh (one of his biggest critics) and give him a great exclusive? Why damage a rider who is managed by your son? And why not leak it before the election took place?

Do we know the true source for the leak? If McQuaid threatened the leak, Sky could've done it before McQuaid got a chance. McQuaid is not in a great place right now, he has the rug pulled out from under him. A cornered rat is dangerous and my guess is as i said JTL was small fry and a shot across the bows. JTL has done nothing at Sky and by the excuses he did not take to their 'marginal gains' the way they hoped.

The argument against my prime suspect, Shaun Stephens or someone of that ilk, is that he may have been too far down the food chain to have known about the JTL case in the first place.

The leak is not good for Sky with fans, but they shugged off the doping doctor with little apparent effect so JTL will hardly damage them............unless he goes postal

 

[del1962]

Perhaps someone close to McQuaid told Walsh something like you want to ask Sky/BC why JTL is not racing at the worlds, so technically they didn't release it, but got Walsh asking questions and someone at Sky blurted.

Anyway this is total speculation

 

[argyllflyer]

Anyway this is total speculation

Now that should be the forum description for The Clinic!

 

[Benotti69]

Now that should be the forum description for The Clinic!

It would be if the Clinic hadn't got so much correct before in their speculation

 

[EnacheV]

It would be if the Clinic hadn't got so much correct before in their speculation

The Clinic speculate about 100's dopers and it's right in a handful of situation. I won't brag with the accuracy.

It's like playing a lotto ticket with all numbers checked

 

[Benotti69]

The Clinic speculate about 100's dopers and it's right in a handful of situation. I won't brag with the accuracy.

To be fair it is not hard. IMO most of the riders dope.

It's like playing a lotto ticket with all numbers checked

Better analogy is, it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Better analogy is, it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Killing fish is easy, but it doesn't answer the question of which of the fish was on growth hormone, and neither does it lessen the irony of the analogy put forward and the rational behind it.

All Witches are women.
All Witches are human.
All human women are?

...back to the inquisition.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Better analogy is, it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

... with a chain gun (ala Mythbusters)

 

[pmcg76]

The Clinic speculate about 100's dopers and it's right in a handful of situation. I won't brag with the accuracy.

It's like playing a lotto ticket with all numbers checked

A better one would be 'A broken clock is still right twice a day'.

 

[Benotti69]

A better one would be 'A broken clock is still right twice a day'.

amazing how many feel the need to keep checking the time on said clock

 

[the sceptic]

A better one would be 'A broken clock is still right twice a day'.

So youre saying that the clinic thinks everyone is doping and due to sheer luck gets it right once in a while?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So youre saying that the clinic thinks everyone is doping and due to sheer luck gets it right once in a while?

Just twice a day septic tank, pffff, wake up.

 

[pmcg76]

So youre saying that the clinic thinks everyone is doping and due to sheer luck gets it right once in a while?

Well, claiming everyone dopes and then trying to claim some sort of amazing insight when someone is popped is not exactly anything to crow about.

Is a bit like saying 'everybody in a relationship cheats' and then saying 'oh look I was right' everytime someone is found to be cheating. Doesn't require any particular insight nor does it prove anything other than some people cheat. It's not hard to figure out.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Well, claiming everyone dopes and then trying to claim some sort of amazing insight when someone is popped is not exactly anything to crow about.

Is a bit like saying 'everybody in a relationship cheats' and then saying 'oh look I was right' everytime someone is found to be cheating. Doesn't require any particular insight nor does it prove anything other than some people cheat. It's not hard to figure out.

so PMCG76 is JTL a doper or a misunderstood talent?

 

[DirtyWorks]

A better one would be 'A broken clock is still right twice a day'.

I think you and others misunderstand the situation. Last time I checked there is no AAF (positive) for JTL.

The UCI has irregular blood values exceeding some threshold we don't know in the bio-passport analysis system. They contacted the rider for an explanation. That's not an AAF.

What is certain is the Sky science-and-precision-is-why-we-are-GT-winners myth certainly needs to die because Sky hasn't said a single word about testing him prior to offering a contract.

 

[pmcg76]

so PMCG76 is JTL a doper or a misunderstood talent?

Let me start by first saying that I called JTL out here at the time he morphed into a somebody last year. I got lots of grief about doing so and no end of silly arguments put forward to explain his sudden arrival. One was that he didnt do much beforehand as he only got to ride crit's in Britain despite the fact he was mostly racing in other countries.

Mind I never actually said he was doping, just that his sudden transformation was very suspicious. I refuse to call people dopers without some level of actual proof that is more than just performance related. As I have said before I have a personal suspicion level chart akin to the infamous UCI suspicion list. Yes JTL was a 8/9 but I refuse to call anyone a doper without more info. Anyone that undergoes an amazing transformation will score high on my chart.

That being said I have refused to wade in on the JTL debate at the moment for one reason. I have always wondered how an illness would impact on the BP especially if it was a blood related disorder. This relates to Froome as well and why I don't like the fact SKY only released his power files from 2011 onward. Maybe JTL was ill or over-trained but this seems unlikely but I will give him a chance first.

Despite what people here think about the BP, I understand that the BP is not an exact science and that the human body is not like a robot/computer and thus the need for some scope in parameters. I find it interesting but leave the BP to the experts.

 

[pmcg76]

I think you and others misunderstand the situation. Last time I checked there is no AAF (positive) for JTL.

The UCI has irregular blood values exceeding some threshold we don't know in the bio-passport analysis system. They contacted the rider for an explanation. That's not an AAF.

What is certain is the Sky science-and-precision-is-why-we-are-GT-winners myth certainly needs to die because Sky hasn't said a single word about testing him prior to offering a contract.

I haven't misunderstood anything as you will see by my previous post. I am just pointing out the drivel people post about the clinic being right so often about doping.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Let me start by first saying that I called JTL out here at the time he morphed into a somebody last year. I got lots of grief about doing so and no end of silly arguments put forward to explain his sudden arrival. One was that he didnt do much beforehand as he only got to ride crit's in Britain despite the fact he was mostly racing in other countries.

Mind I never actually said he was doping, just that his sudden transformation was very suspicious. I refuse to call people dopers without some level of actual proof that is more than just performance related. As I have said before I have a personal suspicion level chart akin to the infamous UCI suspicion list. Yes JTL was a 8/9 but I refuse to call anyone a doper without more info. Anyone that undergoes an amazing transformation will score high on my chart.

That being said I have refused to wade in on the JTL debate at the moment for one reason. I have always wondered how an illness would impact on the BP especially if it was a blood related disorder. This relates to Froome as well and why I don't like the fact SKY only released his power files from 2011 onward. Maybe JTL was ill or over-trained but this seems unlikely but I will give him a chance first.

Despite what people here think about the BP, I understand that the BP is not an exact science and that the human body is not like a robot/computer and thus the need for some scope in parameters. I find it interesting but leave the BP to the experts.

thanks.

hfhfj

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so PMCG76 is JTL a doper or a misunderstood talent?

Haha.

One thing funny about the current round of nonsense about how great The Clinic is at spotting dopers is that the one of the few who could have come on here and claimed to be right is Pmcg76.

Whats more interesting is that instead of now claiming victory and saying how correct they were they have adopted a wait and see approach on the process.

 

[Benotti69]

I know of a website that has listed 983 people who are or were in the sport that have a link to doping.

Fish in a barrel is about right.

 

[sniper]

I haven't misunderstood anything as you will see by my previous post. I am just pointing out the drivel people post about the clinic being right so often about doping.

i'd agree with you that there isn't much credit or honor to be earned in predicting procyclist x is a doper.
you're gonna be right 9 times out of 10 anyway.

as for JTL, I haven't heard many people calling him a doper. the recent discussions have been about the nature of the leak and the repercussions this has for sky, etc., not so much about whether he actually doped, which is pretty much a nobrainer anyway.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I know of a website that has listed 983 people who are or were in the sport that have a link to doping.

Fish in a barrel is about right.

Wow, 983 people thats a lot.
You must be right so that its like shooting fish in a barrell.

Although I did g=find this website called dopeology, its really good and it has statistics showing a decline in doping over the years.
Anyway, let is know the one you have so we can compare. Thanks

 

[Netserk]

I thought it only was a decline in positives and not in dope :O

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I thought it only was a decline in positives and not in dope :O

Ok, not dope - positives.