Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[DirtyWorks]

Your simplest explanation involves Pat handpicking a sacrifical lamb to go after Sky/Cookson, and that lamb being one of Andrew's riders?

I'm not saying it's THE explanation. I'm saying relying on Occam's razor is not possible when you are dealing with the UCI.

 

[Grupetto1]

When is time up?

 

[JRanton]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Cycling+News+&+Race+Results+|+VeloNation.com)

“Things are going well, I'm back training and in my routine again,” the Briton stated, according to ciclismointernacional.com. “I sent my information to the UCI several weeks ago and I was able to give my explanations, so now I just have to wait.”

It is thought that the basis for Tiernan Locke’s defence is illness, which he feels caused a change in his blood levels.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A sense of bloody deja vu.

 

[martinvickers]

I'm not saying it's THE explanation. I'm saying relying on Occam's razor is not possible when you are dealing with the UCI.

UCI is mendacious. But it doesn't defy the laws of physics cap'n.

Ockham still applies. It always does. It's simply a matter of factoring in the evidence. In this case, there can be no 'assumption' of good faith in regards either UCI or PMQ, as there might be with other organisations. that's fine, Ockham's happy. The evidence historically does not support such an assumption.

But that doesn't mean you ignore evidence altogether.

The idea that UCI stands outside the broader field of human endeavour is risible.

 

[martinvickers]

A sense of bloody deja vu.

It would certainly be preferable if some objective medical evidence were available. Given patient confidentiality, it's hard to see it, sadly.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Jesús Rosendo was cleared after confirming it was the result of hæmorrhoids. Maybe we one day find out the cause of JTL's shady values, but I wouldn't expect to at least until such time as he is either cleared or suspended.

 

[thehog]

Jesús Rosendo was cleared after confirming it was the result of hæmorrhoids. Maybe we one day find out the cause of JTL's shady values, but I wouldn't expect to at least until such time as he is either cleared or suspended.

Once they discover an illness that relates to the blood values he will contract it

Oh look! I have badzhilla too!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Once they discover an illness that relates to the blood values he will contract it

Oh look! I have badzhilla too!

That's cool. Can Carlos Barredo have it too? I liked him.

 

[thehog]

That's cool. Can Carlos Barredo have it too? I liked him.

I liked him too. How did they pluck him out? Going back 2 years. That was mentally ***.

Leinders would have had that one covered.

Instead he was taking care of Sky.

 

[MartinGT]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Cycling+News+&+Race+Results+|+VeloNation.com)

What a joke.

Team Sky have some serious issues with the care of their riders if they are always getting ill.

 

[martinvickers]

What a joke.

Team Sky have some serious issues with the care of their riders if they are always getting ill.

This is just petulant; as a comment just reads like lashing out at a team you don't like.

Sky is a cycling team, like all the rest. Cycling teams are not BUPA.

We don't even know yet what JTL (claims he) got. How on earth can you deduce what sort of care a team could have taken from a state of such basic ignorance, it's absurd.

 

[Benotti69]

This is just petulant; as a comment just reads like lashing out at a team you don't like.

Sky is a cycling team, like all the rest. Cycling teams are not BUPA.

We don't even know yet what JTL (claims he) got. How on earth can you deduce what sort of care a team could have taken from a state of such basic ignorance, it's absurd.

Most teams have a min of 4 docs, so that is what 7 max riders per doc and they cant look after them?

The sport has a history of using illness to cover up doping.

 

[martinvickers]

Most teams have a min of 4 docs, so that is what 7 max riders per doc and they cant look after them?

The sport has a history of using illness to cover up doping.

I don't deny that, B, and you will note my reply clearly implies at least suspended belief in what JTL has to say.

But you know what? My wife has about a dozen doctors at the moment for certain issues, some among the most learned in the country. and the don't have a clue - completely stumped - it happens,

And that's before we get into illnesses they could recognise but not really treat very effectively, or at least not quickly - ME springs to mind, there are, I'm sure, countless others.

How about acknowledging that attacking either the rider, or the cycling teams doctors' can maybe wait until we at least HEAR the facts, while acknowledging our lack of trust?

But there's so much anger and cycnism, patience just goes right out the window. And that's a failing in the one showing the patience.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't deny that, B, and you will note my reply clearly implies at least suspended belief in what JTL has to say.

But you know what? My wife has about a dozen doctors at the moment for certain issues, some among the most learned in the country. and the don't have a clue - completely stumped - it happens,

And that's before we get into illnesses they could recognise but not really treat very effectively, or at least not quickly - ME springs to mind, there are, I'm sure, countless others.

How about acknowledging that attacking either the rider, or the cycling teams doctors' can maybe wait until we at least HEAR the facts, while acknowledging our lack of trust?

But there's so much anger and cycnism, patience just goes right out the window. And that's a failing in the one showing the patience.

The riders live in a bubble, their dietry intake is extremely measured (or so we are led to believe), they live very ordered lives in the racing season focusing on the next objective, they are supposedly constantly monitored by medical people as part of the sports science. So constant medical supervision should lead to a minimum of illness. There are exceptions. Is JTL an exception. I doubt it.

As for anger, cynicism and lack of patience, well some fans have been following the sport a long time waiting for something to be done about the circus.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The riders live in a bubble, their dietry intake is extremely measured (or so we are led to believe), they live very ordered lives in the racing season focusing on the next objective, they are supposedly constantly monitored by medical people as part of the sports science. So constant medical supervision should lead to a minimum of illness. There are exceptions. Is JTL an exception. I doubt it.

As for anger, cynicism and lack of patience, well some fans have been following the sport a long time waiting for something to be done about the circus.

It is the constant medical meddling of the body that lead to illnesses like "virus" or "bad fish"

 

[Catwhoorg]

We know he had Epstein Barr Virus (it was why he quit a few years ago).

EBV remains in the body after infection, and can be reactivated by environmental stress.

Skys very hard(TM) schedule certainly counts as an environmental stress, which reactivated the illness.

I'd guess that's his argument in a nutshell.

If he has any evidence of elevated white cell counts, then that's probably going to be sufficient.



(the obvious counter is that 90%+ of adults have latent EBV in their system...)

 

[veganrob]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is his blood values from 2012 that are being called into question, not from 2013.

 

[martinvickers]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is his blood values from 2012 that are being called into question, not from 2013.

Not exactly; it's the incompatibility of the two, I think. And since, presumably his 2012 numbers are 'better', that suggested manipulation then.

His argument, if the rumours are true, is that actually his 2012 numbers are 'correct' and 'legit' and his 2013 numbers are down because of illness, thus creating the appearance of incompatibility.

time will tell.

 

[martinvickers]

The riders live in a bubble, their dietry intake is extremely measured (or so we are led to believe), they live very ordered lives in the racing season focusing on the next objective, they are supposedly constantly monitored by medical people as part of the sports science. So constant medical supervision should lead to a minimum of illness. There are exceptions. Is JTL an exception. I doubt it.

As for anger, cynicism and lack of patience, well some fans have been following the sport a long time waiting for something to be done about the circus.

Well, I've been following the 'circus' on and off since being a kid the early eighties, my father would argue the late seventies, though i barely remember - certainly very much since Lemond and Roche in the mid eighties; I doubt you've much on me in this department in any event. Doesn't change the reality that people need to show the basic patience to wait for the facts to emerge before pronouncing on them. If you haven't got the facts, that's just tough.

If that wait is too much for you, you might want to find something that will give you more instant satisfaction or gratification.

 

[Benotti69]

Well, I've been following the 'circus' on and off since being a kid the early eighties, my father would argue the late seventies, though i barely remember - certainly very much since Lemond and Roche in the mid eighties; I doubt you've much on me in this department in any event. Doesn't change the reality that people need to show the basic patience to wait for the facts to emerge before pronouncing on them. If you haven't got the facts, that's just tough.

If that wait is too much for you, you might want to find something that will give you more instant satisfaction or gratification.

Ball not man Martin, i thought you had the tattoo.

Facts dont come through the legitimate channels in the sport and waiting for those channels to deliver the truthful facts is like waiting for godot. Good luck with that.

 

[martinvickers]

Ball not man Martin, i thought you had the tattoo.

Facts dont come through the legitimate channels in the sport and waiting for those channels to deliver the truthful facts is like waiting for godot. Good luck with that.

I did play the ball.

Generic You.

Remember, the original comment wasn't actually made by you, B, so the response on it could hardly have been aimed at you.

Anyway, onwards.

Maybe it is like waiting for Godot. in which case, tough. Still not good enough reason to ignore the basic reality that conclusion follows facts, not the other way round.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The riders live in a bubble, their dietry intake is extremely measured (or so we are led to believe), they live very ordered lives in the racing season focusing on the next objective, they are supposedly constantly monitored by medical people as part of the sports science. So constant medical supervision should lead to a minimum of illness. There are exceptions. Is JTL an exception. I doubt it.

As for anger, cynicism and lack of patience, well some fans have been following the sport a long time waiting for something to be done about the circus.

I thought the opposite was true: that riding in the cold and wet and getting the spray from the road in their mouths and all the various bacteria in it means riders are more susceptible to illnesses rather than impervious. Their low body fat percentage, long hours in the saddle and the extremes of hot and cold they have to ride through weakens their immune system, despite the attention of doctors. That's anecdotal so I don't have source, but then so was yours .

I actually think illnesses are more used to excuse poor performances when the riders aren't doping.

 

[thehog]

I thought the opposite was true: that riding in the cold and wet and getting the spray from the road in their mouths and all the various bacteria in it means riders are more susceptible to illnesses rather than impervious. Their low body fat percentage, long hours in the saddle and the extremes of hot and cold they have to ride through weakens their immune system, despite the attention of doctors. That's anecdotal so I don't have source, but then so was yours .

I actually think illnesses are more used to excuse poor performances when the riders aren't doping.

Dirt in their mouths? Bacteria?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes........