Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[pmcg76]

Are you not allowed to win races when your 18?

Is that not allowed?

Sorry didn't realise.

Except JTL won that minor French race aged 20 whilst Quintana won the biggest U-23 stage race in the world at the same age. If you win the biggest U-23 race in the world, it generally means you have a lot of major talent that will show up pretty quickly which it did.

If you win a small race in France as an amateur, it means you get selected on the team for the Mavic Cup races. But you know, getting selected on the British team for the worlds was amazing when you consider how his team-mates all went on to be future stars, Evan Oliphant, Kieran Page and Dan Fleeman.

Ironically Fleeman was a rider who moved up to PT level after winning a few races at Continental level. Never remember him winning 3 races at 2.1 level though. Dan Lloyd was another who made the jump. Again, nada.

 

[kingjr]

I don't disagree. And Quintana certainly has progressed well and very quickly.

JTL has good juniors results before becoming sick. He came back and won a 2.1 race in January and apparently for some that equals the end of cycling.

But Quintana, you know. Nothing to see there

I jest but you get the point.

No I don't feel I get the point. Quintana might of course be doping, but he had very promising results at an early age compared to JTL.

JTL's results equalling the end of cycling is of course nonsense, but if a rider suddenly performs really well against strong opponents, fades away not too long after and then gets busted for irregularities in his biological passport, the conclusion seems rather obvious. And I'm very sure you would agree if JTL hadn't joined Sky.

 

[thehog]

Except JTL won that minor French race aged 20 whilst Quintana won the biggest U-23 stage race in the world at the same age. If you win the biggest U-23 race in the world, it generally means you have a lot of major talent that will show up pretty quickly which it did.

If you win a small race in France as an amateur, it means you get selected on the team for the Mavic Cup races. But you know, getting selected on the British team for the worlds was amazing when you consider how his team-mates all went on to be future stars, Evan Oliphant, Kieran Page and Dan Fleeman.

Ironically Fleeman was a rider who moved up to PT level after winning a few races at Continental level. Never remember him winning 3 races at 2.1 level though. Dan Lloyd was another who made the jump. Again, nada.

Cool.

So JTL has won the Giro? Climbed with Froome up Ventoux?

JTL won 2.1 Haut-Var a race he won in 2005 at 19 as an amateur.

That's about all his done. And that equals doping because.....?

His golden result is the Worlds. Trading blows with Contador. Incidentally or coincidently that's the race whereby he has a doping infraction to answer.

JTL has never ridden a GT but Bot-Logic fell in love him at "hello" and now that he was caught doping with BC/Sky they've abandon him.

 

[thehog]

No I don't feel I get the point. Quintana might of course be doping, but he had very promising results at an early age compared to JTL.

JTL's results equalling the end of cycling is of course nonsense, but if a rider suddenly performs really well against strong opponents, fades away not too long after and then gets busted for irregularities in his biological passport, the conclusion seems rather obvious. And I'm very sure you would agree if JTL hadn't joined Sky.

He trained with Sky since April 2012 and had a letter of intent from them. I can't help that. His infraction was from preparing with Kerrison & Sky for the Worlds.

Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusion.

 

[kingjr]

My conclusion would be that, if he was indeed doping, he acted on his own accord, or at least without Kerrison's/Sky's consent.

 

[thehog]

My conclusion would be that, if he was indeed doping, he acted on his own accord, or at least without Kerrison's/Sky's consent.

When did he start?

As a junior or after he was sick?

 

[pmcg76]

He trained with Sky since April 2012 and had a letter of intent from them. I can't help that. His infraction was from preparing with Kerrison & Sky for the Worlds.

Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusion.

Except he only started being blood tested from the time he signed on with SKY. Hard to find irreuglarities in the blood when you ain't taking any blood samples and have no previous records. Would have been very interesting to see his blood profiles from 2011 to 2012. That might have revealed things far earlier.

2011
4th @Tour of Korea
8th @Tour of South Africa
2nd @ Vuelta A leon
6th @Tour of Britain

versus

2012
1st Tour of the Med(1 stage win)
1st Tour of Haut Var(2 stage win)
2nd Tour of Murcia
1st Tour of Britain

So Hogs natural progression is winning one race in a year at the lowest level of pro racing but then moving up to a higher level and winning 5 times in just over a month. Nothing to worry about there at all.

 

[kingjr]

When did he start?

As a junior or after he was sick?

I don't know.

I think it's likely he took something in early 2012, then again before the worlds but took to much risk then (overconfident maybe) and screwed up.

What he did before he got sick, I have no idea, might be he didn't take anything at all. As mentioned before, he wasn't too impressive.

 

[thehog]

I don't know.

I think it's likely he took something in early 2012, then again before the worlds but took to much risk then (overconfident maybe) and screwed up.

What he did before he got sick, I have no idea, might be he didn't take anything at all. As mentioned before, he wasn't too impressive.

You don't know? And you sounded so confident. So I guess this is just a hunch?

He beat El Fares in the amateur Haut-Var clean but had to take something to best him in the ProEvent?

Jon replied “definitely. I used to race with guys as an amateur in France like the guy who was second in Haut Var who has been top 20 in the Tour de France. I used to always beat him as an amateur.”

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

So was he doping in 2011? Or only start in 2012? What do you think he took? EPO? A blood bag.

Do you think the whole Endura team doped to win the TTT at Copi in 2012? Or just JTL.

Was he doping when on Sky training camps in 2012?

Interesting theory you have here. Sounds like the magic bullet theorem

 

[thehog]

Except he only started being blood tested from the time he signed on with SKY. Hard to find irreuglarities in the blood when you ain't taking any blood samples and have no previous records. Would have been very interesting to see his blood profiles from 2011 to 2012. That might have revealed things far earlier.

2011
4th @Tour of Korea
8th @Tour of South Africa
2nd @ Vuelta A leon
6th @Tour of Britain

versus

2012
1st Tour of the Med(1 stage win)
1st Tour of Haut Var(2 stage win)
2nd Tour of Murcia
1st Tour of Britain

So Hogs natural progression is winning one race in a year at the lowest level of pro racing but then moving up to a higher level and winning 5 times in just over a month. Nothing to worry about there at all.

You're not the brightest spark are you?

In 2012 he changed to Endura to ride more European races hence the results are different from the previous year which were mainly UK based.

But you know don't let facts get in the way of your theory.

Locke chose to join Endura Racing, another UK-based UCI Continental team, which has a strong schedule of international and domestic racing.

He promised to ?hit the ground running.? And Locke has done just that. Following a training camp in Mallorca, he headed to the Med Tour last week, planning to use his climbing strength up to the last day?s traditional summit finish on Mont Faron.

That plan was derailed by snow in the south of France, which forced the organizers to reroute three of the four stages, including the first and last ones. This didn?t stop Locke?s plans. His team scouted the finish of the opening stage and thought a short climb 3km from the line could be a good place to attack.

And the blood testing is his fault because? I guess Froome & Quintana better watch out with their progression and blood testing

Good video here of JTL at 2011 ToB, worth watching, it's very well shot. Good crowds. This is before he started doping..

http://vimeo.com/30077114

 

[kingjr]

You don't know?

Of course not. You are the one who pretends to know the answers

He beat El Fares in the amateur Haut-Var clean but had to take something to best him in the ProEvent?

What "amateur Haut-Var" are we talking about and where does it say he beat El Fares in there

Anyway, I don't think El Fares took a 3 year break from cycling

Jon replied ?definitely. I used to race with guys as an amateur in France like the guy who was second in Haut Var who has been top 20 in the Tour de France. I used to always beat him as an amateur.?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

El Fares was never Top 20 in the TDF

So was he doping in 2011? Or only start in 2012? What do you think he took? EPO? A blood bag.

Maybe he did already dope in 2011 and stepped it up in early 2012
Maybe he started in 2012. There is no way for me to know.

Do you think the whole Endura team doped to win the TTT at Copi in 2012? Or just JTL.

They didn't win.


I don't see what you are trying to achieve asking questions no one except JTL knows the answers to. I really don't see it. Lots and lots of smoke and mirrors on your part and little sense.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

By using a derogatory and offensive term like "spastic"?

Yes, Jimmy, some have come so far their only rebuttal is to use a word like spastic.

Not like you would ever use the word ***, right?

 

[thehog]

Of course not. You are the one who pretends to know the answers

What "amateur Haut-Var" are we talking about and where does it say he beat El Fares in there

Anyway, I don't think El Fares took a 3 year break from cycling

El Fares was never Top 20 in the TDF
Maybe he did already dope in 2011 and stepped it up in early 2012
Maybe he started in 2012. There is no way for me to know.

They didn't win.


I don't see what you are trying to achieve asking questions no one except JTL knows the answers to. I really don't see it. Lots and lots of smoke and mirrors on your part and little sense.

So the sum of parts here is you don't know.

But what we do know is his doping infraction is from the Worlds during his prep with Kerrison/Sky.

That is undeniable. And that's what the passport committee will decide on.

 

[deviant]

I thought his doping infraction came from the 2012 Tour of Britain?
I'm sure I read that somewhere? I'm at work but will try and find a source for that later.

 

[ebandit]

wooo.....oooh!

wooo.....oooh!..........................you have been vortexed.........a deep depression about to spew a further mini galaxy

i for one am sick of a members trolling here twisting and turning changing with the ebb and flow

is the relative value of jtl's performance that important?

as others I saw jtl surprise with better performances...again fans forecsting future world domination was a joke

would it be possible to return to the crux of the matter WAS jtl doping
( it's not even proven ) and were there any enablers?

thanks!
Mark L

 

[wirral]

This has gone on so long that by the time a decision is finally given, the public will all be saying Jonathan Who? Who did he ride for? Did he ever win anything? And that may be what all the stakeholders and interested parties want.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Not like you would ever use the word ***, right?

Really, really wish I thought of this, chapeau. Amazing the hypocrisy

 

[thehog]

I thought his doping infraction came from the 2012 Tour of Britain?
I'm sure I read that somewhere? I'm at work but will try and find a source for that later.

No blood tests at the ToB. It came from the Worlds and then subsequent testing which built the profile picture.

 

[Mellow Velo]

No blood tests at the ToB. It came from the Worlds and then subsequent testing which built the profile picture.

Which supports the theory that instead of having a profile "spike", riding for Sky/BC, as you claim, he had a profile "plateau" at that time, which dived after joining Sky and getting those tests that built the profile picture.

 

[thehog]

Which supports the theory that instead of having a profile "spike", riding for Sky/BC, as you claim, he had a profile "plateau" at that time, which dived after joining Sky and getting those tests that built the profile picture.

You mean that's supports your theroy. Or Bot theory.

Profile "plateu" - think I've heard of it all now.

That's not how the passport works. It's not a system to exonerate Brailsford

 

[Benotti69]

Which supports the theory that instead of having a profile "spike", riding for Sky/BC, as you claim, he had a profile "plateau" at that time, which dived after joining Sky and getting those tests that built the profile picture.

Which would not mean that he was clean at Sky. Considering anti doping is years behind the PEDs currently being taken. The new PEDs appear to strip riders down to Skeletons and increase power so bloods might not be affected whereas a rider micro doping might have had a higher profile then on to a big team and a different program. Sky forgot to keep his BP constant. They are oh so good at the details with Sir Dave the Master of Detail running the show.

What is keeping UCI UKAD from processing this case?

 

[blackcat]

My conclusion would be that, if he was indeed doping, he acted on his own accord, or at least without Kerrison's/Sky's consent.

here is the thing, they all have the licence to dope, but like the Dont Ask Dont Tell policy that was invoked in the US military, they are allowed to dope, but keep it on the downlow, dont get caught, dont get anyone else in the team embroiled in a doping conspiracy. keep it on the downlow, with the plausible deniability.

JTL was not meant to dope to get a spot on Sky, then stop with those performances and results. He had to keep on getting those results. only one way to do that.

But just keep your bioparameters level. so you cant be busted, and bring controversy on Team Sky. Dope, but dont make it obvious and keep it hidden. Bring controversy and get busted, you get sacked on the spot.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You mean that's supports your theroy. Or Bot theory.

Why is everyone that disagrees with you a (sky)bot? Picking some choice comments from other posters

Please stop yourself Hog, this is beyond embarrassing.

lol, it'd be ok if it was trolling but I really pity the lack of knowledge.

hoggie pls stop.

I don't consider any of these posters to be of a pro-Sky agenda?

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Why is everyone that disagrees with you a (sky)bot?

Fear not, once they get him back on his meds, things will settle back into "normal" mode.

 

[RownhamHill]

What is keeping UCI UKAD from processing this case?

JTL's laywer couldn't make the scheduled hearing date in May, so his legal team asked for a delay, which was granted by UKAD.