Jumbo - QuickStep merger

[Mayomaniac]

Am I too late for the Dutch Postal Service & United Colors of Benetton cycling sponsorship jokes!?

Nah, Alonso will save them...

 

[fmk_RoI]

Not to mention they can actually sell their players.

And what good would that actually do if it came into cycling? The revenue you get selling would be spent on buying and only the riders' agents would benefit.

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710271410768122204

View: https://twitter.com/bsirnik/status/1710271410768122204

 

[fmk_RoI]

How could a team that just had the greatest season of all time be unable to merge, and unable to find a new sponsor

No one has said they can't find a new sponsor. They have another 12 months yet to find a new sponsor. This particular opportunity - which involved more than bringing in new sponsors - didn't work out. That doesn't mean all other opportunities won't work out.

Put away the tinfoil and calm down.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Jumbo are pulling out because they don't see the added value of their sponsorship anymore.

This is true but not the whole picture. Part of what made Jumbo initially work was personal relationships and those have changed, within Jumbo. The people making the decisions today (or a few months back when the decision was made) have an entirely different relationship with the team.

Plus, for many of the sort of businesses we would like to see sponsoring cycling teams - not sugadaddies, not petro-states, not just fans with deep pockets - you are looking at them being involved for typically three to five years before pulling out and moving on to the next opportunity. Jumbo have done a three year turn as the secondary sponsor and a five year as the lead sponsor. That's not bad, all things considered.

 

[Boehmand]

This has been the case on countless occasions for "the biggest team(s)" in cycling. The ROI is simply not that great for long periods for a lot of these sponsors.

Every cycling team is losing money off its basic operation, all the time.

They get no slice of broadcast revenue and prize money is ridiculously low at all races - despite the race organisers taking in all the broadcast revenue.

The only way to sustain the business is through sponsors.

No other high end pro sport works this way, because it is simply not a sustainable business model.

 

[Boehmand]

https://www.footballbenchmark.com/library/sponsorship_overview_2023_24

If those guys have small deals...what chance do cycling teams have? Its only going to get worse. There needs to be a complete rethink on how revenue is generated & distributed by the likes of ASO & UCI & how to promote the sport.

If Athletico renamed themselves "Ryadh Air FC" and played in purple/white, you could easily triple the amount.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Every cycling team is losing money off its basic operation, all the time.

Generally, they breakeven.

Most can't operate at a loss as they don't have the reserves built up from previous years.

They get no slice of broadcast revenue and prize money is ridiculously low at all races - despite the race organisers taking in all the broadcast revenue.

Where do you think the appearance fees they receive from race organisers come from, money found down the back of the sofa?

Look, for years now TV revenue has been the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The reality is it isn't. Even Vaughters gave up playing that record, it's time to catch up and get a new tune.

Has getting a share of Netflix's money made a difference for the teams involved there?

The only way to sustain the business is through sponsors.

The only way to sustain any business is through clients. Sponsors are clients. Cycling has a capitalist business model. Who woulda thunked it?

The last Skineos accounts that gave detail showed title sponsors contributing 65% of the budget, other sponsors 25%, appearance fees and other income contributed 10%.

You are also only looking at one side of the sport, the players. The organisers rely on sponsors to a lesser extent.

No other high end pro sport works this way, because it is simply not a sustainable business model.

I suppose the key here is how we define high end. Whatever way you define it, though, cycling isn't a high end sport. It's niche. It has a better economic base than some sports, not so better than others. But its economic model actually works for the sport, given we have teams that were formed 30 and 40 years ago.

What do you want to replace cycling's economic model with, socialism? Nationalise all the teams, run them as regional teams funded by taxpayers? Cause that's the only choice if you ditch the capitalist model we have. A model that rewards risk.

 

[hfer07]

Ok so no merger occurred BUT JV is still folding after 2024, right?

 

[Oldermanish]

Generally, they breakeven.

Most can't operate at a loss as they don't have the reserves built up from previous years.

Where do you think the appearance fees they receive from race organisers come from, money found down the back of the sofa?

Look, for years now TV revenue has been the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The reality is it isn't. Even Vaughters gave up playing that record, it's time to catch up and get a new tune.

Has getting a share of Netflix's money made a difference for the teams involved there?

The only way to sustain any business is through clients. Sponsors are clients. Cycling has a capitalist business model. Who woulda thunked it?

The last Skineos accounts that gave detail showed title sponsors contributing 65% of the budget, other sponsors 25%, appearance fees and other income contributed 10%.

You are also only looking at one side of the sport, the players. The organisers rely on sponsors to a lesser extent.

I suppose the key here is how we define high end. Whatever way you define it, though, cycling isn't a high end sport. It's niche. It has a better economic base than some sports, not so better than others. But its economic model actually works for the sport, given we have teams that were formed 30 and 40 years ago.

What do you want to replace cycling's economic model with, socialism? Nationalise all the teams, run them as regional teams funded by taxpayers? Cause that's the only choice if you ditch the capitalist model we have. A model that rewards risk.

I'm surprised a grocery chain could sustain this lengthy involvement. Even the largest chains run on margins of 1-2% when all is done and current inflationary pricing isn't bringing in enough to recover from the Covid years. Seems like we have this same discussion every few years. The riders don't have much leverage, either so they don't contribute to a stable rise in endorsement income that benefits more than the few stars. Unless getting free shorts and socks represent income.

 

[RedheadDane]

Ok so no merger occurred BUT JV is still folding after 2024, right?

Or, they'll get a new sponsor.

 

[awavey]

This is true but not the whole picture. Part of what made Jumbo initially work was personal relationships and those have changed, within Jumbo. The people making the decisions today (or a few months back when the decision was made) have an entirely different relationship with the team.

Plus, for many of the sort of businesses we would like to see sponsoring cycling teams - not sugadaddies, not petro-states, not just fans with deep pockets - you are looking at them being involved for typically three to five years before pulling out and moving on to the next opportunity. Jumbo have done a three year turn as the secondary sponsor and a five year as the lead sponsor. That's not bad, all things considered.

I thought it was much simpler than that and its just the change of strategy by the new CEO at Jumbo, due to the previous one being investigated for money laundering who stepped down, new CEO, new vision and one whose view on sports sponsorship in general is theyre just a Dutch national supermarket brand, and spending 20million euros across their cycling, skating and motorsport sponsorship which boosts their worldwide profile but doesnt really help more money go through the tills in Holland doesnt help them, and they can spend that money doing other stuff to boost their profits. Theyre stopping all their sports sponsorship, its not just Jumbo Visma.

the deal with why theyre talking about replacing sponsors now, rather than 12 months from now, is Jumbo have apparently said if any of the teams/people they sponsor now, find a new sponsor to replace them, theyll step away before their deal expires. Which sometimes sponsorship is all about timing, and a deal now with Amazon might not be a deal Amazon would want in 12 months, ignoring they dont want it now either, but its that kind of situation.

 

[staubsauger]

Somehow I doubt that Jumbo folds after 2024.

They might just get a Dutch sponsor and decline back towards being the no. 1 cycling team from the Netherlands.

As they've been during the Rabobank era.

 

[Didinho]

Just went on a ride with another group, there was also a Quickstep caretaker among us. I recognized him, he’s often the one at the finish who gives them their drinks and stuff.
Haven’t read the last 10 pages or so but here’s what he told afterwards.

Remco’s father/manager went behind Lefevre’s back to Czech Republic for Bakala himself and asked for more support/money and that’s why Bakala went to Jumbo.

Also Van Wilder and Masnada (to name a few) doesn’t want to ride anymore with Remco, but hasn’t said why. Maybe because of this almost-merger.

I had to go home but some friends are still there and they will send other stories if he tells more.

 

[Berniece]

Also Van Wilder and Masnada (to name a few) doesn’t want to ride anymore with Remco, but hasn’t said why. Maybe because of this almost-merger.

They rode with him yesterday, and Van Wilder was quite positive about Remco in his interview after the race. Maybe the guy got old information, and they talked it out on the bus.

 

[Red Rick]

They rode with him yesterday, and Van Wilder was quite positive about Remco in his interview after the race. Maybe the guy got old information, and they talked it out on the bus.

He got the angry letter from Lefevere maybe.

 

[Didinho]

They rode with him yesterday, and Van Wilder was quite positive about Remco in his interview after the race. Maybe the guy got old information, and they talked it out on the bus.

I think he meant for next year(s). Preferably without him. Also less races to dom for him. They want to be more free I think.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Just went on a ride with another group, there was also a Quickstep caretaker among us. I recognized him, he’s often the one at the finish who gives them their drinks and stuff.
Haven’t read the last 10 pages or so but here’s what he told afterwards.

Remco’s father/manager went behind Lefevre’s back to Czech Republic for Bakala himself and asked for more support/money and that’s why Bakala went to Jumbo.

I love it when people offer insider information that actually tells you less than what Pat Lefevere said a fortnight ago.

 

[Didinho]

I love it when people offer insider information that actually tells you less than what Pat Lefevere said a fortnight ago.

That’s why I said I haven’t read or followed it the last days. Just happened to be riding with this guy and said what he told.
He also said the Tour is his primary/only goal now. But yeah that’s what we all know.

 

[Boehmand]

Generally, they breakeven.

Most can't operate at a loss as they don't have the reserves built up from previous years.

Where do you think the appearance fees they receive from race organisers come from, money found down the back of the sofa?

Look, for years now TV revenue has been the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The reality is it isn't. Even Vaughters gave up playing that record, it's time to catch up and get a new tune.

Has getting a share of Netflix's money made a difference for the teams involved there?

The only way to sustain any business is through clients. Sponsors are clients. Cycling has a capitalist business model. Who woulda thunked it?

The last Skineos accounts that gave detail showed title sponsors contributing 65% of the budget, other sponsors 25%, appearance fees and other income contributed 10%.

You are also only looking at one side of the sport, the players. The organisers rely on sponsors to a lesser extent.

I suppose the key here is how we define high end. Whatever way you define it, though, cycling isn't a high end sport. It's niche. It has a better economic base than some sports, not so better than others. But its economic model actually works for the sport, given we have teams that were formed 30 and 40 years ago.

What do you want to replace cycling's economic model with, socialism? Nationalise all the teams, run them as regional teams funded by taxpayers? Cause that's the only choice if you ditch the capitalist model we have. A model that rewards risk.

If you think the sport with the most watched sports event in the world is "niche" - I can't help you

As for the American rhetoric on "socialism" and "nationalising", give me a break, most major team sports leagues in the world are owned fully or partially by the teams - cycling is an exception.

 

[dennisdy]

The rest of Remco's team might be angry and unwilling to ride for him because they worked very hard to get in shape for two grand tours but they received no reward. Remco drops out of the Giro, and then mysteriously shuts down on stage 13 of the Vuelta. I say mysteriously because he somehow regains his form the next day and wins stage 14 by 1:12! He then goes on to get attention and praise because he still attacks, even though he is no longer a GC contender.

 

[StryderHells]

The rest of Remco's team might be angry and unwilling to ride for him because they worked very hard to get in shape for two grand tours but they received no reward. Remco drops out of the Giro, and then mysteriously shuts down on stage 13 of the Vuelta. I say mysteriously because he somehow regains his form the next day and wins stage 14 by 1:12! He then goes on to get attention and praise because he still attacks, even though he is no longer a GC contender.

Dropped out of the Giro because of illness and won 3 stages at the Vuelta after his bad day, wins multiple other races and last years Vuelta. Yes I think his teammates will still do what they’re being paid to do and ride for him.

 

[Rob5091]

So apparently this whole messy saga was started by Remco's dad's for wanting more money? Family and business never mix well ... unless you're the Mafia but that does not normally end well either.
I look forward to seeing this thread come back to life in about 9 months time then.

 

[pastronef]

So apparently this whole messy saga was started by Remco's dad's for wanting more money? Family and business never mix well ... unless you're the Mafia but that does not normally end well either.
I look forward to seeing this thread come back to life in about 9 months time then.

or maybe the next thread back to life will be Remco's on Jan 1st?

 

[Berniece]

So apparently this whole messy saga was started by Remco's dad's for wanting more money? Family and business never mix well ... unless you're the Mafia but that does not normally end well either.
I look forward to seeing this thread come back to life in about 9 months time then.

No, not at all. Remco's manager wanted SQS to be at the level of INEOS and JV when it comes to the level of staff and riders. He asked the owner if he could make that happen.