Kimmage interviews Floyd Landis: Sunday Times + Bombshell NYVC transcript [merged]

[Benotti69]

It occurs to me to wonder about how differently the "clean cycling" proponents are treated compared with how Bassons was treated. Is the fact that Millar, Wigans, Gilbert, Evens, and Garmin are accepted in the peloton proof that the rest of their colleagues know the real deal about them?

there is the possibility that those guys deny it but the peloton doesn't believe them. I bet JV has ordered his guys to not let their lips flap and tongues get loose in order to keep up appearances. But i bet they talk about trade secrets amongst ex team mates, the aussie's, the yanks etc who all ride for different teams.

 

[Sanitiser]

Ignore the obvious. Bassons called out Lance the others have not.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ignore the obvious. Bassons called out Lance the others have not.

OK then, if they are racing clean where is the anger towards the guys who are cheating them out of higher finishes and more money?

 

[JPM London]

Jeez, don't rush me you guys

I also just wanted in before it got moved (again)

OK then, if they are racing clean where is the anger towards the guys who are cheating them out of higher finishes and more money?

Maybe they believe most of their opponents are also clean? Maybe they don't want to live day in day out wondering and suspecting everybody else and hence accept that sometimes **** happens but that it's moving in the right direction? Maybe they are extremely tired of only talking about dope all the time?

I don't know, but I think I'd be...

 

[Hugh Januss]

I also just wanted in before it got moved (again)



Maybe they believe most of their opponents are also clean? Maybe they don't want to live day in day out wondering and suspecting everybody else and hence accept that sometimes **** happens but that it's moving in the right direction? Maybe they are extremely tired of only talking about dope all the time?

I don't know, but I think I'd be...

Are there really any clean Pro Tour level pros who are out there beating their heads against the wall trying to beat doped guys who they consider to be clean? That would be just sad.

 

[JPM London]

I think the saddest ting would be if there were only doped riders and they'd all rather pretend to believe in clean cycling and keep doping while keeping a facade - call me naive, but I think the peloton is rather clean - or at least I want to believe it, but am resigned to not feign surprise whenever positives hit.

 

[keen_but_slow]

The thing we're overlooking is that it isn't possible to go berserk on the cough mixture anymore. Landis' version of the blood bag discard was that it was a management decision because the team were embarrassingly good that year. When someone does party like it's 1999, they are conspicuous (Kohl / Ricco / Sella etc), so provided you pick your stages, you can have decent success clean or even chase the overall in a "B" race - the saintly Boardman did a good Dauphine during the Indurain years.

Landis was obviously a good rider, but didn't seem a born GT-winner did he? And yet that's where he got to on what he describes as a fairly moderate regime. The USPS / Disco regime had domestiques shelling team leaders out the back in the first 5km of the last climb of the day which indicates (at least to me) that the other teams were doing hardly anything mid-race.

Heck, the Evans group went up the Alpe in 42'00 in 2008 (and I think the Dauphine was similar last year). So whatever they're doing nowadays (micro-dosing etc) it isn't as dramatic as before and there are fewer risking it mid-race. I mean, Novitsky is sniffing round, who's gonna talk openly to anyone they don't absolutely trust?

 

[thehog]

The thing we're overlooking is that it isn't possible to go berserk on the cough mixture anymore. Landis' version of the blood bag discard was that it was a management decision because the team were embarrassingly good that year. When someone does party like it's 1999, they are conspicuous (Kohl / Ricco / Sella etc), so provided you pick your stages, you can have decent success clean or even chase the overall in a "B" race - the saintly Boardman did a good Dauphine during the Indurain years.

Landis was obviously a good rider, but didn't seem a born GT-winner did he? And yet that's where he got to on what he describes as a fairly moderate regime. The USPS / Disco regime had domestiques shelling team leaders out the back in the first 5km of the last climb of the day which indicates (at least to me) that the other teams were doing hardly anything mid-race.

Heck, the Evans group went up the Alpe in 42'00 in 2008 (and I think the Dauphine was similar last year). So whatever they're doing nowadays (micro-dosing etc) it isn't as dramatic as before and there are fewer risking it mid-race. I mean, Novitsky is sniffing round, who's gonna talk openly to anyone they don't absolutely trust?

The 2007/08 season starts were two of the best in terms of racing I've seen. For the life of me I don't know why the UCI wants to allow some doping in cycling. The Paris-Nice in both those years was chaotic, messy, and all over the place - best racing in years. Once you add super dope racing becomes one dimensional and boring - a drag race of sorts. Why the UCI likes this style of racing is beyond me.

Right you are about the USPS years. Some of it was just stupid. I mean Landis would give Lance a sprint lead out over 3 mountain passes! Hincapie would ride on the front for nearly 20+ days straight and still manage to finish 3-5 minutes off the leaders in the mountain stages and sometimes even win one.

You see they don't really have to do dope. They just tell you its necessary for recovery but they're just cutting a corner.

Truth be known the UCI is at the mercy of the drug kings. They have ready made market of 500+ addicts and all testing and passports control does is keeps a lid on it. Allows them to control the dope not stop it. They know it.

 

[Chuffy]

I also just wanted in before it got moved (again)
Maybe they believe most of their opponents are also clean? Maybe they don't want to live day in day out wondering and suspecting everybody else and hence accept that sometimes **** happens but that it's moving in the right direction? Maybe they are extremely tired of only talking about dope all the time?

I don't know, but I think I'd be...

Pretty much my take on things too. No matter how p*ssed off you are about issue X in your workplace, at some point you have to let it wash over you and just concentrate on the day job. Righteous fury is a tiring state of mind to maintain.

 

[popolo]

Kimmage opinion of CN

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2011/landiskimmage


P.K Floyd, crying is good but not alone. Get out of that cabin. When are you going to go back to your parents? For years, I never spoke to anyone who didn’t like you and I never really got it until we met for the first time. You are a good person Floyd, and you have many brilliant qualities. You are still young enough to start again and build a new life. You will never find peace or happiness in cycling. It’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****. And it can’t be fixed. Get some sun on your face and we will talk tomorrow.



F.L I’m going to pack up my bike and go see them in a few days. I feel free already for the first time since I can remember.



P.K Great. That’s exactly what you need to do. The next step is to stay away from Cyclingnews and all of the cycling websites, but keep riding your bike, that will always feel good.



…But that too, was easier said than done and a couple of days later he was making headlines again: “Floyd Landis calls for legalised doping.”



P.K There is only one thing worse than reading Cyclingnews…talking to them.


What is the responsibility of the media in the doping mess?

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>


What is the responsibility of the media in the doping mess?

the cycling media have been massively culpable in keeping the omerta safe, which has meant doping gets reported in major non cycling newspapers better than the cycling media.

look at the mess the UCI has made of the sport and constantly not getting pulled up on it.

cycling media,non existant in the true sense of journalism

 

[dancing on pedals]

the cycling media have been massively culpable in keeping the omerta safe, which has meant doping gets reported in major non cycling newspapers better than the cycling media.

look at the mess the UCI has made of the sport and constantly not getting pulled up on it.

cycling media,non existant in the true sense of journalism

Les forçats de la route was not published in a sports newspaper and the major articles in recent times are usually published by broadsheet papers as opposed to the cycling news media.
it is worth remembering that this site used to be known as bill's cycling site (er or somethink like that) - and all was going well until 1999 and armstrongs remarkable Tour victory - when a race report which hinted at a mountain top victory that was a little too remarkable resulted in advertisers pulling out and an embargo by US fans not to use the site. Bill sold it.
For the next ten years in order to keep advertisers and contacts sweet cyclingnews has stuck to a no offence strategy - "Ferrari case timed out "converts into cyclingnews jargon as Ferrari aquited- just one example of sweet (BUT NECESSARY) talk.
With vested interests it is best that cyclingnews sticks to race coverage and leaves the investigate journalism to people whose livelihood does not depend on the sale of Trek bikes.
thanks

 

[flicker]

I don't hear anything positive come out of the bitterman Kimmage.
He is very informed on cycling but of course he hates the sport.
Paul having his knave Landis advocate legalized doping must have added bitter on bitterman. That poor poor bitterman Kimmage. Oh well he did get his picture in LeQuippe.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't hear anything positive come out of

You are impenetrably dense.

 

[Anonymous]

Didnt we discuss this two months ago when the article came out.

 

[flicker]

Kimmage, there you have a man, incredibly intelligent, great writer, I am sure has many wonderful insights on life, sports, love,etc.. What does he do with his talent, he rubbishes cycling, something he once loved, doped himself, a verified cheat himself, and them he vilifies the sport.
My guess he vilifies cyclingnews because they promote the sport.
He is almost as old as me, almost as intelligent as me , not quite as handsome as me, but I glow with my admiration of Sue(as in a boy named Sue, 'fathered by Gunderson' by Johnny Cash)
What Paul needs to come down to some of our Merican ***-Tonks and put a little Patsy Cline and Hank Williams Jr. on the juke box, dance with a sweet little Texan gal and live a little.

 

[ergmonkey]

Kimmage, there you have a man, incredibly intelligent, great writer, I am sure has many wonderful insights on life, sports, love,etc.. What does he do with his talent, he rubbishes cycling, something he once loved, doped himself, a verified cheat himself, and them he vilifies the sport.
My guess he vilifies cyclingnews because they promote the sport.
He is almost as old as me, almost as intelligent as me , not quite as handsome as me, but I glow with my admiration of Sue(as in a boy named Sue, 'fathered by Gunderson' by Johnny Cash)
What Paul needs to come down to some of our Merican ***-Tonks and put a little Patsy Cline and Hank Williams Jr. on the juke box, dance with a sweet little Texan gal and live a little.

Please assume one regional affectation and stick with it.

 

[Berzin]

Why this person is allowed to pollute every thread he posts on is just beyond me at this point.

 

[Digger]

I don't hear anything positive come out of the bitterman Kimmage.He is very informed on cycling but of course he hates the sport.
Paul having his knave Landis advocate legalized doping must have added bitter on bitterman. That poor poor bitterman Kimmage. Oh well he did get his picture in LeQuippe.

Flicker you haven't got a clue.........

“Did I believe in Christian Vande Velde? Was I prepared to make the ultimate act of faith? Yes, absolutely…I believed in him because we sat down for two hours one night and he told me about his life. I believed in him because of Vaughters; I believed in him because of Lim; I believed him because of Reichlin and Steffen and Frischkorn and Pate. I believed in him because of Millar. And as an extension of that belief, I was forced to engage with the race.”

“Vande Velde was my new barometer. Could a clean rider compete with the rocket-fuelled exploits of cheats such as Riccardo Ricco and his pals at Saunier Duval? No, we had witnessed the difference on the Col D’Aspin. But as soon as the Italian was snared the waters were clearer…”

 

[flicker]

Honk if you think Kimmage loves cycling and is supporting the sport.
If he hates cyclingnews and the people here agree with him, why are you here on this forum. I guess the haterz here are all knaves O' Kimmage. You are the weakest link, goobye.

 

[Merckx index]

P.K There is only one thing worse than reading Cyclingnews…talking to them.

Hey, Paul, they allow threads like this one, they can't be all bad.

 

[pedaling squares]

Why this person is allowed to pollute every thread he posts on is just beyond me at this point.

It's just Flicker being Flicker. You could easily make an argument that he contributes little other than head-scratching je ne sais quoi, but at least he doesn't attack anyone or cross the lines of good taste. He would probably stay on topic if I could figure out what his topics are. His approach is more 'Peace, Love, and Nonsense'. If we started to moderate Flicker heavily we'd have to take a harder line on a lot of things that are probably best left untouched.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

the cycling media have been massively culpable in keeping the omerta safe, which has meant doping gets reported in major non cycling newspapers better than the cycling media.

look at the mess the UCI has made of the sport and constantly not getting pulled up on it.

cycling media,non existant in the true sense of journalism

Kimmage is right, but you know that the hacks and their mates get very upset when you start saying mean things about them.

Witness the way in which they never miss the chance to beat up on a whistleblower - check out the stitching up of Landis. They never did respond to Landis's allegations that they had misrepresented his views (which is a fairly serious allegation of journalist malpractice).

But don't worry they are always there to dutifully report all the nonsense that any doper or UCI hack comes out with and report it as gospel truth.

Of course, they can't do without the life blood of those 'exclusive' PR interviews to fill up the page. They are more interested in quantity of articles than quality. I can only assume that is because they are either too stupid or too lazy to do their job properly. So it is no good expecting them to be asking Vaughters how we can take his claims to clean riding seriously when he jumps into bed with the Hog, or asking HGH about why they employ so many old dopers in their 'clean' team, or asking those elephant in the room questions to the likes of LL, Menchov, Frodo, Millar, Goss, Fab Can etc

Let me give you an example where a little bit of journalism would be good and somewhere where CN has completely failed.

A couple of weeks ago Dertie's PR man said that they'd made his defence available in english (all 600 pages of it), so it surely wouldn't be too hard for CN to get a copy and to give us view of it, to talk to some scientists, experts in food safety in Europe etc and to unpack Dertie's tale. Sure, it would mean CN having to do some leg work, read a long report, make a few phone calls etc.

Afterall, its fairly hard to work out why Dertie's excuse has been accepted, what exactly is in that 600 page document? Is it a massive Chewbacca defence, or is it a serious piece of work?

Is it rocket science? No, it means one of the CN hacks doing some work for a change. But they won't do it because they'd sooner be acting like a starstruck 14 year old at a Justin Bieber gig when the Uniballer, Frodo or gives them a interview than being journalists.

 

[Cobber]

Fantastic interview, thanks for sharing! There is a lot more in this than just Kimmage's opinion of CN, however!

 

[Merckx index]

A couple of weeks ago Dertie's PR man said that they'd made his defence available in english (all 600 pages of it), so it surely wouldn't be too hard for CN to get a copy and to give us view of it, to talk to some scientists, experts in food safety in Europe etc and to unpack Dertie's tale. Sure, it would mean CN having to do some leg work, read a long report, make a few phone calls etc.

Did they really say this, or did they say that the shorter summary was available in English (which it finally was)? This was never clear to me. If the 600 pages (in Spanish, let alone English) are "available", why do we need to depend on CN to give us a view of it? Available where, to whom?