• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

King of The Mountains Tittle

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Who do you think will win the Podka Dot Jersey

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
Not that it is likely, but I am still holding out hope Tommy Voekler will pull off the KOM. It won't happen. But, I enjoy cheering for him!

KOM is tough to predict because a GC guy can accidently get it, or some guy that is an hour behind that the peloton keeps letting go in breaks can eat up the points out on the course.

I think Moncoutie has a great chance. No real threat to GC and had great Vuelta 2008.

I still hope for Voekler, though ;)
 
Jun 22, 2009
4,991
0
0
Visit site
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
No worries mate. Welcome to the forum anyway. If you're around long enough you'll see that I write extemporaneously sometimes

Off topic (apologies) - don't think I've ever heard an American say, 'no worries, mate'. Are you one?
 
ilillillli said:
i think it rarely goes to the rider who is truly the best climber. you know who was the best climber in 2007? it sure as heck wasn't mauricio soler.

...Soler at least showed that he was capable of climbing with the elite gc contenders. I respected his KOM win much more than Virenque's who was rarely seen climbing with the best climbers.
 
Jun 30, 2009
367
0
0
Visit site
Mellow Velo said:
No. I did imply that you had, but I though others might jump upon me, for using him to highlight my point.
As for Contador, well that has to do with Rasmussen in the above post, surely?
Sastre? It was always going to be all or nothing.
What of my Green jersey observation?
Doesn't the best sprinter have to be the fastest, or do you take it to mean most consistent?

sure, there are exceptions to the green jersey rule, you bring up a good one here, but in general the winners of the green jersey are riders that i would identify as the top sprinters in the sport: Friere, Boonen, McEwen, Zabel, Zabel, Zabel...

i guess i'm just trying to say that the polka dot jersey doesn't have the same authority with me. when i think of the best climbers in the sport i think of the fly-weight spanish riders, the schlecks, but not some of the recent winners. with rasumussen being a notable exception.
 
ilillillli said:
sure, there are exceptions to the green jersey rule, you bring up a good one here, but in general the winners of the green jersey are riders that i would identify as the top sprinters in the sport: Friere, Boonen, McEwen, Zabel, Zabel, Zabel...
So Podka Dot Jersey winners are not good climbers?
but can you name a rider that is not a good climber that has won it?

i guess i'm just trying to say that the polka dot jersey doesn't have the same authority with me. when i think of the best climbers in the sport i think of the fly-weight spanish riders, the schlecks, but not some of the recent winners. with rasumussen being a notable exception.
So Mauricio Soler is not a good climber? Is he too fat?
 
Mar 19, 2009
2,703
3
0
www.ridemagnetic.com
Amsterhammer said:
Off topic (apologies) - don't think I've ever heard an American say, 'no worries, mate'. Are you one?

LOL!:D! Yeah, I'm a Yank. Did my MidWest, USA location give it away. Some of the Aussies on here are rubbing off on me I guss, It's a great feel-good saying. And an ex girlfriend of mine is married to a Aussie tv soap opera star, in a house by the ocean. No jealousy either. From what I know he's a great guy, and they have a kid together. It took her less than a year to come back for a visit with a slight accent even. Funny stuff.
 
The polka dot jersey is always a bit of a crapshoot but you have to favor the French riders for this one. Moncoutie will be tough to beat but maybe someone like Dessel or Casar will forego trying to be 1st Frenchman and give him a run for his money. I don't think Voeckler will go for it - doesn't seem to quite fit his style. For BBox, maybe Trofimov?

Could also be a Spanish rider like Anton, LL Sanchez, Arroyo...but for some reason Maxime Monfort keeps coming to mind. He's riding well, can climb and I'm guessing Kirchen and Rogers will be a little off the pace on GC so he should have some freedom to go for something.

I'm hoping there's actually a fight for the jersey instead of one guy running away with it but if Moncoutie goes all out for it I think it's his.
 
Mar 10, 2009
221
0
0
Visit site
I liked Soler in 2007. He was a fresh face and interesting to watch on a bike. He was also unpredictable. Remember him offering Rasmussen a drink from his bottle? He seemed to be having fun. Ramussen looked austere, appeared to be suffering. Soler was just lending a helping hand to the GC leader.
 
Jun 30, 2009
367
0
0
Visit site
so, let me get this straight... nearly a third of people here think David Monticue is the best climber in professional cycling? 'cuz i don't.
 
I'd pick Gesink if he were on the list.

Alberto Contador is the best climber in the world. Andy Schleck, Sammy Sanchez, Carlos Sastre aren't far behind. IMO of course.

ilillillli said:
Does anyone really believe that Virenque is the best pure climber of the last 20 years? No.

I think what you're saying, and I agree with you, is that Virenque rode to win the KOM jersey only (and a few really long breaks). He'd find a day with three climbs of Cat 1 or HC, and breakaway on the first climb, knowing he'd lose 5 minutes by the finish, but he'd get the points from the first two climbs in order to get the jersey. Before he came along, not many riders actually tried this, instead they would go for the win as best they could, and get KOM points. There's another reason he's not as good as his accolades indicate, but we'll leave that out.

As much as I loved him, Laurent Jalabert employed Virenque's same strategy in his KOM wins.

workingclasshero said:
Anyone know how to best reflect who's the best climber? what can be done with the points system etc?

Lesser points for intermediate climbs, but not too much. That would be a good start.
 
Jun 30, 2009
367
0
0
Visit site
DenisMenchov said:
Polka dot jersey goes to best climber. He has most points.

my point, denis menchov, is that the polka dot jersey DOES NOT go to the best climber, but the best intermediate sprinter or the guy who's in the most breakaways. I think the points system is broken if Soler and Virinque are winning and not Heras, Mayo, Contador, Sastre, etc. I feel like they should just switch to an arbitrary scale like the "most combative rider" category. It'd work better.

Nice Giro, though.
 
Jun 30, 2009
367
0
0
Visit site
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd pick Gesink if he were on the list.

Alberto Contador is the best climber in the world. Andy Schleck, Sammy Sanchez, Carlos Sastre aren't far behind. IMO of course.



I think what you're saying, and I agree with you, is that Virenque rode to win the KOM jersey only (and a few really long breaks). He'd find a day with three climbs of Cat 1 or HC, and breakaway on the first climb, knowing he'd lose 5 minutes by the finish, but he'd get the points from the first two climbs in order to get the jersey. Before he came along, not many riders actually tried this, instead they would go for the win as best they could, and get KOM points. There's another reason he's not as good as his accolades indicate, but we'll leave that out.

As much as I loved him, Laurent Jalabert employed Virenque's same strategy in his KOM wins.



Lesser points for intermediate climbs, but not too much. That would be a good start.


ok, perfect. you're right, i think we do agree. the difference is that you write more clearly than i do. everyone wondering what i'm thinking should read this post.

also, i like the prorated points for lesser climbs idea, but i'm wondering if fixed point values should be abandoned and an arbitrary score a la "most combative rider" be awarded and totaled at the end of the tour.
 
ilillillli said:
my point, denis menchov, is that the polka dot jersey DOES NOT go to the best climber, but the best intermediate sprinter or the guy who's in the most breakaways. I think the points system is broken if Soler and Virinque are winning and not Heras, Mayo, Contador, Sastre, etc. I feel like they should just switch to an arbitrary scale like the "most combative rider" category. It'd work better.

Nice Giro, though.

Man I understand you but Mayo, Heras, Armstrong, Basso were riding in peloton draged by their teams, while Rassmusen, Soler, Virenque were "dying" in the mountains.
It is like you say he won the Tour becasue he was in the breakaway that was 32 minutes of peleton, and lost only 28 minutes in the mountains and TT.
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
Visit site
They should give time bonuses at the top of all climbs just like they do for the GJ (intermediate and finish)...

Turns every mountain top in a potential battlefield for either mountain goats who can't TT but still want to do well in the GC or for 'regular' GC contenders, who will consecutively be forced to seize the maillot a pois rouge...
 
Mar 10, 2009
1,318
0
0
Visit site
Escarabajo said:
I was going to put Gesink instead of Demi di Gregorio but I can not change it anymore.
Concur on Gesink. Not only can he do it, but by going for it, he will put pressure on the other GC riders. No other team will want to see another Oscar Pereiro style podium. And this helps Menchov, so I see Rabobank releasing Gesink's leash on several stages.
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
Visit site
benpounder said:
Concur on Gesink. Not only can he do it, but by going for it, he will put pressure on the other GC riders. No other team will want to see another Oscar Pereiro style podium. And this helps Menchov, so I see Rabobank releasing Gesink's leash on several stages.

I would hope so, but I doubt it. Breukink is too conservative a DS for those kind of 'risky tactics' (perhaps not entirely without a reason, as conservation is key to victory). As far as a comparison with Rasmussen is appropraite, I think he made up his own plan and it always looked as if no one really had a grip on him.

On top of that, Gesink is still very young so Rabobank are invested in him staying on the leash.
 
Mar 10, 2009
1,318
0
0
Visit site
ilillillli said:
...the polka dot jersey DOES NOT go to the best climber, but the best intermediate sprinter or the guy who's in the most breakaways.

Yeah, but in terms of non-GC jerseys, the PolkaDot is much more "just" than the sprinters' jersey in either the Giro or the Vuelta.

Say no to time bonuses, no to double points for finishing climbs, and say yes to gradated finish line sprint points.
 
Mar 10, 2009
1,318
0
0
Visit site
Bala Verde said:
On top of that, Gesink is still very young so Rabobank are invested in him staying on the leash.

But as with any obedient dog, treats have to be doled out to encourage remaining on said leash. You may be right about Breukink, but that would disappoint me. As much as I dislike Evans, I like Leipheimer, and Robert Gesink is "sucking Levis' wheel.

In fact, I should say: as much as I dislike Ricco (or Rasmussen), I like Gesink!
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,654
2
0
Visit site
If Moreau was a smart rider he could win this competition hands down. He' s a very strong rider uphill. I personally thought he could ride well in the gc but his time trialling is too unpredictable. If its not moreau then it will have to be 'Moncoutie'.
 

TRENDING THREADS