Kirchen has heart attack

[ulrikmm]

From the Kim Kirchen fansite:
"Tuesday, 22 June 2010
Kim Kirchens Zustand hat sich am Dienstag weiter verbessert. Die Ärzte am Universitätsspital Zürich, einem der größten europäischen Krankenhäuser, haben dem Radprofi am Morgen die Beatmungsschläuche entfernt, so dass seine Lunge nun ohne künstliche Beatmung arbeitet.

Bei dieser Maßnahme habe Kim Kirchen erste Reaktionen gezeigt, sagte Dr. Charles Delagardelle. Über die neurologische Entwicklung könne man trotzdem "erst in ein paar Tagen" Aussagen machen."

Thus, he is breathing on his own conditions again (not on artificial ventilator anymore), and the doctors wait for him to wake up in order to assess the neurological outcome in a couple of days.

Alltogether not bad news, given the circumstances.

 

[joe_papp]

I am a cycling fan and a cardiologist.Kirchen seems to have been resuscitated from cardiac arrest. Probably he did not wake up afterwards hence the hypothermia treatment to reduce brain damage. The reasons for his condition most probably is ventricular tachycardia/ibrillation. He has fainted before, and has been found unconsciuous previously on the road. The typical causes of sudden death in athletes are hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, arrythmogenic right ventricular cardiomyopathy, congenital coronary artery anomalies. Other causes of death in the young include atrial fibrillation in the presence of an accessory atrioventricular pathway, and long QT syndrome. With a resting ECG, an ambulatory ECG recording, and an Echocardiogram, you should be able to diagnose th majority of patients with these conditions ... sooner or later. Regrettably sometimes these conditions are diagnosed too late. I hope Kirchen will make it through in good shape. Hypothermia definitely helps.
ulrikmm

This is indeed scary stuff and I hope that Kim Kirchen recovers from this terrible incident and can live a normal, healthy life. Is his career as a pro athlete basically over now because of liability concerns? Even if there was shown to be no long-term physical damage such that his condition had worsened, would any team's risk management officer really give approval to his returning to competition?

My friend actually suffers fromsupraventricular tacycardia, and he had a terrible syncope (fainting) episode this weekend! He wasn't on the bike at the time, thank god, but he was walking along outside when - the next thing he knew - he was suddenly coming to in an ambulance! He'd passed-out, fallen on his face and busted it up, damaged the fingers in one hand that hit the ground weirdly when he fell...he's in hospital now...anyone wishing to send him a get-well email can write to him here.

 

[Beech Mtn]

http://www.katushateam.com/index.php?p=press-dettaglio&id=320

06-22-2010
Kim Kirchen comes out induced coma and shows immediately good signals: he recognized immediately his wife and his father and he asked what’s happened because he didn’t remember nothing. At the moment he shows no problem at hearth and lungs. It will continues more tests for to know the origin of the problem.

 

[hrotha]

Gods, who writes their press releases?

Anyway, good news.

 

[Liquigas]

Good news indeed, get well soon Kim

 

[offbyone]

This has been very sad it is nice to hear some good news.

 

[9000ft]

Great to here some good news! Forget cycling for a little bit Kim and get better.

Oh yeah, I assume the press release is a goggle translation or something like that.

 

[ridley]

Excellent news - Get well soon, Kim !!

 

[Escarabajo]

As it was posted before:

Katusha’s Kim Kirchen, who has been in hospital in Zürich since Friday, has emerged from a coma, his team announced on Tuesday

Read more: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...vering-from-heart-attack_122716#ixzz0rbaliQuA

 

[Christian]

Is his career as a pro athlete basically over now because of liability concerns? Even if there was shown to be no long-term physical damage such that his condition had worsened, would any team's risk management officer really give approval to his returning to competition?

I think if they find the cause of the heart attack, then maybe he can continue his career as it might be treatable ... however his cardiologist said in many cases the cause is never found and so far they have no idea what it could be.

 

[bridgeman]

So glad to have read this news! Fantastic!

 

[ilillillli]

I think if they find the cause of the heart attack, then maybe he can continue his career as it might be treatable ... however his cardiologist said in many cases the cause is never found and so far they have no idea what it could be.

i know this thread isn't in the clinic (not sure why it was removed) but i think if they DO find the cause his career might be over... if you catch my drift.

best wishes to him on a speedy and complete recovery.

 

[Christian]

i know this thread isn't in the clinic (not sure why it was removed) but i think if they DO find the cause his career might be over... if you catch my drift.

You clearly have not read any of the previous posts in this thread and are not familiar with Kirchen's history of heart/breathing problems this season. If you were, you would know why it was removed from the clinic.

 

[ilillillli]

You clearly have not read any of the previous posts in this thread and are not familiar with Kirchen's history of heart/breathing problems this season. If you were, you would know why it was removed from the clinic.

and you clearly haven't read the thread in the clinic that reads a massive doping scandal into contador's announcement that he has the flu (i'm sure you could tell me whether or not contador has a history of flus).

and maybe (clearly) you haven't read anything about Philippe Casado, Greg Lemond's teammate who had a heart attack and died from apparent overuse of EPO. also in his early 30's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Casado

i'm just saying, this is serious business and it's odd to me what gets shut down and what doesn't even get touched. to me, this has more than a few red "clinc-y" flags on it, but it's not there. you know what IS there? a thread that argues whether men's tennis or women's tennis is more fun to watch.

but thanks for your respectful tone. that helps a lot.

 

[Christian]

and you clearly haven't read the thread in the clinic that reads a massive doping scandal into contador's announcement that he has the flu (i'm sure you could tell me whether or not contador has a history of flus).

I have to admit that I did not read that thread until now - I saw the title and thought it was utterly ridiculous. But I don't really see how that thread justifies you calling Kirchen a doper.

and maybe (clearly) you haven't read anything about Philippe Casado, Greg Lemond's teammate who had a heart attack and died from apparent overuse of EPO. also in his early 30's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Casado

1) Heart attacks can have unnumerable causes

2) Kirchen has no history of doping (granted, he was on T-Mobile)

3) He has had similar issues since Tirreno-Adriatico - why continue doping if you know it'll make you faint during practice and you'll crash and have to be taken to the hospital in an ambulance? (like it happened to Kirchen this season)

4) Undetected heart problems with top athletes are no rarity and are usually not linked to PED's:

Another article from Tageblatt:

"In top sports, sudden deaths of athletes due to heart failure are no rarity. 2003 was a tragical year fro cycling.

Before the start of the Deutschland-Tour, frenchman Fabrice Salanson was found dead in his hotel room in Dresden at 23 years of age. Cause of death: heart attack. The same year Italian Denis Zanette and Spain's José Maria Jiménez died because of heart failure outside of racing.

An inflamation of the heart muscle due to a virus was the cause of German runner René Herms' death in 2009. He was found dead in his appartment at 27 years of age.

The deaths of well-known football players attracted a lot of media attention in the last few years. Marc-Vivien Foé collapsed during a game of Cameroon's national team in the 2004 Confederation's Cup and died of heart failure. One year later Hungarian Miklos Feher died during a game of his team Benfica Lissabon at the age of 24 because of a heart attack. The last prominent case was that of Spain's Antonio Puerta, captain of FC Sevilla, who died three days after suffering a cardiovascular arrest on during a game, at age 22.

Even former top athletes have died of heart failure: Austria's former national football player Bruno Pezzey died in 1994 while playing ice hockey, at age 39."

The point is that while there have been cases of athletes dying due to PEDs, there are probably just as many (if not more) of heart attacks that had nothing to do with that. Bruno Pezzey probably didn't get all EPO'd up for his ice hockey game with the buddies.

i'm just saying, this is serious business and it's odd to me what gets shut down and what doesn't even get touched. to me, this has more than a few red "clinc-y" flags on it, but it's not there. you know what IS there? a thread that argues whether men's tennis or women's tennis is more fun to watch.

Where are the "clinic-y" flags on this subject? I have listed my arguments for my point of view above, I'd be interested in reading yours (apart from: "He had a heart attck - ergo, he doped")

As for the thread about women's vs. men's tennis, I have to admit that I have not known of its existence. Personally, I really have no favourite there. I'm not a tennis expert and I never understand why sometimes you need to win two sets to win and sometimes three. In women's tennis it seems to always be two (as far as I know) and in men's it varies. Does it have something to do with what ground they play on (grass, sand, indoors)?

Sometimes the women who play are attractive, but the best ones right now aren't so much (Williams sisters, Kim Clijsters ...), so that doesn't really count. All in all, I like watching both, and since I'm not the biggest fan nor expert I don't really care all that much.

But I do agree with you when you say the "Contador has the flu" thread should be closed. As you said, it is difficult to understand why the moderators haven't stepped in yet.

but thanks for your respectful tone. that helps a lot.

Indeed it was not the nicest tone and I apologize for that, as you pointed out it is not helpful. I have to admit though that I understood your post in the way that you claimed to already know the cause of the heart attack - doping. This then made me a little angry because I thought: "If this person already knows the cause, why don't they just tell all the cardiologists and other specialists who have been busting their brains and not found anything? They would make those people's lives a lot easier."

 

[hrotha]

The point is that while there have been cases of athletes dying due to PEDs, there are probably just as many (if not more) of heart attacks that had nothing to do with that. Bruno Pezzey probably didn't get all EPO'd up for his ice hockey game with the buddies.

I think the point is that extended use of PEDs has long-term consequences, so you could have a heart attack long after you stopped taking them, and they would still be the underlying cause.

 

[ilillillli]

I have to admit that I did not read that thread until now - I saw the title and thought it was utterly ridiculous. But I don't really see how that thread justifies you calling Kirchen a doper.



1) Heart attacks can have unnumerable causes

2) Kirchen has no history of doping (granted, he was on T-Mobile)

3) He has had similar issues since Tirreno-Adriatico - why continue doping if you know it'll make you faint during practice and you'll crash and have to be taken to the hospital in an ambulance? (like it happened to Kirchen this season)

4) Undetected heart problems with top athletes are no rarity and are usually not linked to PED's:



The point is that while there have been cases of athletes dying due to PEDs, there are probably just as many (if not more) of heart attacks that had nothing to do with that. Bruno Pezzey probably didn't get all EPO'd up for his ice hockey game with the buddies.



Where are the "clinic-y" flags on this subject? I have listed my arguments for my point of view above, I'd be interested in reading yours (apart from: "He had a heart attck - ergo, he doped")

As for the thread about women's vs. men's tennis, I have to admit that I have not known of its existence. Personally, I really have no favourite there. I'm not a tennis expert and I never understand why sometimes you need to win two sets to win and sometimes three. In women's tennis it seems to always be two (as far as I know) and in men's it varies. Does it have something to do with what ground they play on (grass, sand, indoors)?

Sometimes the women who play are attractive, but the best ones right now aren't so much (Williams sisters, Kim Clijsters ...), so that doesn't really count. All in all, I like watching both, and since I'm not the biggest fan nor expert I don't really care all that much.

But I do agree with you when you say the "Contador has the flu" thread should be closed. As you said, it is difficult to understand why the moderators haven't stepped in yet.



Indeed it was not the nicest tone and I apologize for that, as you pointed out it is not helpful. I have to admit though that I understood your post in the way that you claimed to already know the cause of the heart attack - doping. This then made me a little angry because I thought: "If this person already knows the cause, why don't they just tell all the cardiologists and other specialists who have been busting their brains and not found anything? They would make those people's lives a lot easier."

sorry, i missed the part where i called kirchen a doper. i didn't. it's not there. you're right, a lot of different things can cause heart attacks, but when a fit 31-year-old involved in a doping-rich sport keels over out of nowhere... i think that's grounds for at least casual suspicion. which is what i intended.

sorry, but when the burden of proof as to what is and is not "clinic-y" enough is "alberto has a cold ergo he's doping," i think this topic more than deserves to be there. no disrespect.

 

[royalpig180]

Regardless of the cause of his heart attack, Kirchen is going to think he's gone crazy while he was in an induced coma when someone tells him that Frank Shleck used a time trial to win a stage race.

 

[Kender]

Regardless of the cause of his heart attack, Kirchen is going to think he's gone crazy while he was in an induced coma when someone tells him that Frank Shleck used a time trial to win a stage race.

lol

guess he woke up after hell froze over

 

[onefastgear]

Encouraging News!

Alright Kim! To paraphrase Bart Simpson - Way to cheat death man! Hopefully on the mend and home in time to see the birth of his children.

Chalk one up to having excellent physiological reserve and being around people who knew what to do. A tragic event, but hopefully a good outcome.

So where to from here? He'll probably get an AICD fitted (if it was an arrhythmia). I know it's very early to speculate on a return to cycling competitively (if it's all possible). I must say I don't know what happens with AICD's and high heart rates, out of my realm of experience. Any cardiologists care to comment? I'll do a quick scout of PubMed and report back anything I think is noteworthy.

 

[flicker]

Alright Kim! To paraphrase Bart Simpson - Way to cheat death man! Hopefully on the mend and home in time to see the birth of his children.

Chalk one up to having excellent physiological reserve and being around people who knew what to do. A tragic event, but hopefully a good outcome.

So where to from here? He'll probably get an AICD fitted (if it was an arrhythmia). I know it's very early to speculate on a return to cycling competitively (if it's all possible). I must say I don't know what happens with AICD's and high heart rates, out of my realm of experience. Any cardiologists care to comment? I'll do a quick scout of PubMed and report back anything I think is noteworthy.

hopefully kim will have a long and healthy life in the future. My guess, not in bicycle racing.

 

[onefastgear]

flicker - you're right. Getting back to the pinnacle that these professionals are at would be a monumental task.... like coming back from cancer (ok that's another can of worms!!)

Hopefully he can continue his association with the sport - coaching juniors, DS, who knows?

Not much out there on specifics of exercising. One study shows that it's reasonable to exercise again. Gives us hope that he has a good life with his family, and that he can get on the bike again in some form.

Article here - Effect of exercise training in patients with an implantable cardioverter defibrillator, Eur Heart J (2004) 25 (13): 1120-1126.

 

[Nick777]

flicker - you're right. Getting back to the pinnacle that these professionals are at would be a monumental task.... like coming back from cancer (ok that's another can of worms!!)

Hopefully he can continue his association with the sport - coaching juniors, DS, who knows?

Not much out there on specifics of exercising. One study shows that it's reasonable to exercise again. Gives us hope that he has a good life with his family, and that he can get on the bike again in some form.

Article here - Effect of exercise training in patients with an implantable cardioverter defibrillator, Eur Heart J (2004) 25 (13): 1120-1126.

Many think that Cycling may have caused both Kim & Lance's ailments.

 

[Anonymous]

Just glad to hear he is out of his coma and has shown positive signs towards his recovery.

 

[Christian]

sorry, i missed the part where i called kirchen a doper. i didn't. it's not there.

i know this thread isn't in the clinic (not sure why it was removed) but i think if they DO find the cause his career might be over... if you catch my drift.

I thought that was the drift I was supposed to catch.