Kittel: "Armstrong is a dumb swine"

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And it's not like it was a secret that the doctor in question used UV-light to treat illnesses. It says so on that doctors ****ing website there for anybody to see.
It never had anything to do with enhancing performances.
 
Feb 19, 2013
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Kwibus said:
I believe Kittel and Degenkolb when they say they were naive back then.

Personally I would've done the same when I was at their age. I'm the kind of person who isn't able to cheat in a card game for ****s and giggles. I just do not cheat and I hate it, but if I was 18 years and I was sick and the doctor from the national cycling federation says "He let's try this" and than I would ask "Is this allowed?" and if the doctor than says it is... well ofcourse I would do it.

I believe the 2 Argos guys. Not 100% sure about Martin, but I want to believe him yes.
Plus, Degenkolb never actually had the treatment (apparently).
 
kingjr said:
And it's not like it was a secret that the doctor in question used UV-light to treat illnesses. It says so on that doctors ****ing website there for anybody to see.
It never had anything to do with enhancing performances.
Exactly and what reason do we have to suspect Kittel?

He seems like a pure sprinter who drops when the racing gets tough.
Seems pretty clean to me.
 
blackcat said:
the more egregious when they have all been in the tent and touted the armstrong talking points.

they were complicit.
Are young riders who know that there WAS doping widespread but never actually have been confronted with doping automatically complicits?
 
Jul 15, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
To be fair, WADA prohibited this in 2011, UCI later, Kittel got treatment in 2008.
Not to speak of the UV/OZON - therapy hoax :eek:
I don't understand how he is at fault if this wasn't banned at the time. This is like faulting a business for not paying more taxes than is required.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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nope.

just guys like Millar. who have consistently denied, led the hagiography of Armstrong, now when it is convenient, is part of what
Dear Wiggo has crowned, the busthrowundery (noun).
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Mr.38% said:
Tony is sqeaky clean. Guaranteed from someone who performance-tested him for many years. Like John, he is police officer. Any doping offense would probably not just cost them their career but also their pension provisions.
That worked out well, being police and therefore clean so not to lose my pension, look up Mrs Pechstein.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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I see Kittel's UV treatment on the same level as the US Olympic team in the 80s who used transfusions before they were outlawed. Technically both treatments were not illicit practices at the time but does that really make it "okay"? I'm not sure. I think if I was Kittel I'd be keeping my head down a little more.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Wow, stunned to hear that Tony Martin may be clean. I know what it takes to sign such a document in Germany, even as a puclicity stunt. Those guys will be crucified by the German Press and its citizens if they he are ever found to have doped. Germany is at the opposite end of the spectrum to Spain when it comes to doping and fair play. By signing such a document, I would say that there is very a good chance that Tony Martin is clean.

Tony Martin is a machine in the TT. He rides it to near perfection and he usually thoroughly exhausted at the end of it. He has beaten many dirty riders over the years. It is quite exciting to learn that a clean rider can be so succesful in the modern era.

Lucky for him he wasnt 10 years older. Armstrong and Co would have ensured that he never got onto the podium. The thing I notice in the photos is that Tony Martin is so god damn skinny. All head, no shaft ! I thought he had a little more muscle and bone structure than that. Can someone take a check on his body fat levels.
 
Roude Leiw said:
That worked out well, being police and therefore clean so not to lose my pension, look up Mrs Pechstein.
In contrast to Martin, Pechstein grew up in a doping environment and lived the omertá for most of her life. Doping and lying have been like polishing the skids... ;)


@berzin: I chose the thread title carefully, why the translation? Afaik there is no real analog for this in the English language.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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Bratam said:
Wow, stunned to hear that Tony Martin may be clean. I know what it takes to sign such a document in Germany, even as a puclicity stunt. Those guys will be crucified by the German Press and its citizens if they he are ever found to have doped. Germany is at the opposite end of the spectrum to Spain when it comes to doping and fair play. By signing such a document, I would say that there is very a good chance that Tony Martin is clean.

Tony Martin is a machine in the TT. He rides it to near perfection and he usually thoroughly exhausted at the end of it. He has beaten many dirty riders over the years. It is quite exciting to learn that a clean rider can be so succesful in the modern era.

Lucky for him he wasnt 10 years older. Armstrong and Co would have ensured that he never got onto the podium. The thing I notice in the photos is that Tony Martin is so god damn skinny. All head, no shaft ! I thought he had a little more muscle and bone structure than that. Can someone take a check on his body fat levels.
Agree. I saw Martin drag his sorry *** up a stage of the Vuelta last year with a 2 km 17% stretch. He finished so far behind, he crossed most of the riders on their way down to the team buses.

If he is doped, he needs a new plan.....pretty sure he is clean, by appearances anyway.
 
Yeah but people do fall for this crap. when wiggle ghost writer wrote the -I would never dope because I would feel ashamed if I got caught, line the comments were overwhelmingly positive.

In fact this argument that athletes wouldnr risk tarnishing their rep comes from fans themselves since fans think doping doesnt help much and ultimately proves detrimental to performance in the long run.
 
will10 said:
I see Kittel's UV treatment on the same level as the US Olympic team in the 80s who used transfusions before they were outlawed. Technically both treatments were not illicit practices at the time but does that really make it "okay"? I'm not sure. I think if I was Kittel I'd be keeping my head down a little more.
Wow you really dont get it, do you.That UV treatment was never about enhancing performances or doping, it was a treatment for illnesses such as an angina or a cold! That's it!
 
Apr 20, 2012
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will10 said:
I see Kittel's UV treatment on the same level as the US Olympic team in the 80s who used transfusions before they were outlawed. Technically both treatments were not illicit practices at the time but does that really make it "okay"? I'm not sure. I think if I was Kittel I'd be keeping my head down a little more.
Then you must read this:
http://www.oxygenhealingtherapies.com/pro_uvb.html

Especially:
''After your Photo-oxidation treatment:

Drink eight 8-ounce glasses of pure water in the 24 hours following your treatment.
Avoid taking antioxidant supplements for 24 hours following your treatment. This includes Vitamins A,C,E, selenium, glutathione, pycnogenols,
Make sure you are eliminating properly - exercise, increase fiber, colonic therapy, herbal laxatives.
You may take enzymes and minerals to help facilitate energizing process.''

Do you really rate this hocus pocus the same as oldskool bloodtranfusions?
 
mattghg said:
Is this omerta weakening or more of the same?
I have been saying in numerous posts that the initiative, i.e. the push to prove the peloton is clean MUST come from the riders, publicly. It is the riders that have the most to gain by being transparent with the fans. This is a good first start.

However the riders need to follow up by routinely telling the fans publicly

1. What their haematocrit levels are.

2. The results of all of their in competition and out of competition test results

3. If they have missed a whereabouts disclosure

This is the price the current peloton must pay for the sins of the past peloton but anything less leaves the fans cynical and doubting.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Tony Martin a great rider ,a clean rider .Hopefully he will somehow end up at the home of clean riding Sky.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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del1962 said:
Don't really understand why any of these three shouldn't be considered clean, no evidence against them and as far as I can see Kittels treatment was above board.
RobbieCanuck said:
I have been saying in numerous posts that the initiative, i.e. the push to prove the peloton is clean MUST come from the riders, publicly. It is the riders that have the most to gain by being transparent with the fans. This is a good first start.

However the riders need to follow up by routinely telling the fans publicly

1. What their haematocrit levels are.

2. The results of all of their in competition and out of competition test results

3. If they have missed a whereabouts disclosure

This is the price the current peloton must pay for the sins of the past peloton but anything less leaves the fans cynical and doubting.
Have to agree with comments like these. If riders are clean (& successful) then they must come forward and open out to the public. There should be more of these direct PR excercises from other riders. Not bull**** open ended PR work like that of the Sky Team, that end up being broken promises and cover ups.

I must say I am still stunned and quite excited to now be convinced that Tony Martin is clean. To learn that a clean rider is able to get to the top of the world in cycling is quite refreshing. Watching Martin do the time trial is like watching a smooth and well oiled machine. Poetry in motion.
 
The Hitch said:
Yeah but people do fall for this crap. when wiggle ghost writer wrote the -I would never dope because I would feel ashamed if I got caught, line the comments were overwhelmingly positive.
yeah, but gb and germany are different - it will change after/in case sky gets busted one day but germans have been betrayed by the media for too many years to suddenly start believing in them again.
 
In principle I see some of these statements as healthy at this point. But calling out Armstrong is pointless now. He has already been hit by the bus hundreds of times in the last 6 months.

Show some balls and go after the doper who represents the riders instead: Bugno.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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Dazed and Confused said:
But calling out Armstrong is pointless now. He has already been hit by the bus hundreds of times in the last 6 months.
.
Yeah, poor Armstrong. Give me a break.

Paid off the UCI to cover up positives.
Used his cancer awareness foundation for personal profit.
Fraudulently collected money from insurance companies.
Forced people out of their profession.
Sued individuals and newspapers left and right.
Federal witness tampering.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Zweistein said:
Yeah, poor Armstrong. Give me a break.

Paid off the UCI to cover up positives.
Used his cancer awareness foundation for personal profit.
Fraudulently collected money from insurance companies.
Forced people out of their profession.
Sued individuals and newspapers left and right.
Federal witness tampering.
The poster his point is not 'poor armstrong'. It's just not really original to bash armstrong ;)
 
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