Kittel passes lie detector test, looks like he's clean!

[King Boonen]

Doesn't really matter. Dopers don't believe they are cheating or are doing anything wrong.

Not saying Kittel dopes, but cyclists don't need to lie about doping. They are completely delusional about it.

Armstrong, Contador, Froome, they would be failing the lie detector test if they said they were cheating.

That's not how the questions are asked though is it?

You don't ask an opinion, that would be moronic, you ask questions that have a real yes or no answer, such as have you ever taken a substance that was, at the time you took it, listed on x, y and Z WADA banned substances lists.

I'v not read the Kittel story, but I'm assuming the right questions were asked.

They can be beaten but people who do beat them know they are lying.

 

[King Boonen]

and Kim Kardashian does not have bu tt implants.

Just look at the brow of Kittel. Show me his brow at 18. I know the bones fuse in adulthood ~23. But the guy have significant frontal bossing. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...97j0&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

if others wish to throw a phrenology smear in my direction, i will throw the acromegaly (spectrum) disorder back at you. When you go to a GP or MD, for a check up, is a visual analysis part of your study? no?

There's no need, you do it yourself just by bringing it up.

 

[ShrubberyBlue]

Lie detector tests belong on trash TV with Jeremy Kyle. What's next? My grandma takes a lie detector test and says she never saw me transfusing blood?

Kittel - Joke.

 

[blackcat]

Sagan beat Cav on a downhill finish this spring(Narni Scalo) and Greipel beat him on pure speed in the '11 TdF. Btw what year did he have blood drawn?

was that when Cav was not well positioned, and coming from far back, like 5 lengths back? in that case, my point still stands. until 2013, never seen cav lose a fair mano a mano field sprint

 

[blackcat]

There's no need, you do it yourself just by bringing it up.

see the link to frontal bossing an hgh dude. I am been smeared with "phrenology" many times.

but eh, lets smear Jonny Vee instead.

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

"The users can have their balls shrivel up and their foreheads grow larger and whatever

KB, like to defer any experience to JV?

 

[mudbone]

'the machine is never wrong son...'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ5aIvjNgao

(i like kittel's outspokenness btw)

 

[bunnyhop]

What to expect next on the lie detector front?

1. 600 lie detector tests!

2. I won't be stripped of these lie detector test results in 10 or 20 years.

3. Maybe even (if failed) lie-bull steak.

 

[King Boonen]

see the link to frontal bossing an hgh dude. I am been smeared with "phrenology" many times.

but eh, lets smear Jonny Vee instead.

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999



KB, like to defer any experience to JV?

No, JV is a professional cyclist/cycle team manager, not a doctor. His view in this is worth slightly more than yours.

If I need to point out the ridiculousness of looking at photos and saying it proves someone is doping there really is no hope for you.

 

[D-Queued]

By all accounts, lie detector tests can be beaten clean just by knowing how they work, learning a trick or two and practicing a little.

Statements without data don't prove much.

What were the questions?

How many tries did he get?

How did he respond to any questions about the 'light-blood' treatment?

What is the likelihood of a complete bill of health on a lie detector?

Finally:

Are we to believe that Kittel has never even broken a cycling rule? Yellow line? Feed zone? Number placement?

Never used caffeine, or any other 'legal' doping product?

Never 'accidentally' hampered someone's line in a sprint or in a corner?

If his answers are no to these or similar questions, then we know that:

1. He is lying
2. The machine doesn't work, or
3. He has a really bad memory

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

No, JV is a professional cyclist/cycle team manager, not a doctor. His view in this is worth slightly more than yours.

If I need to point out the ridiculousness of looking at photos and saying it proves someone is doping there really is no hope for you.

if you read my posts, i have offered a strategy to avoid a confirmation bias.

if one takes the entire bloc of pro athletes, 1980, v entire bloc pro athletes, 2010.

one avoids an individual sample error.

or, one could argue, that heads are now a reverse engineered indicator, or professional sporting talent. these hormones only manifest over the last three decades, and especially in the last decade.

we will never have another pinhead like Kareem Abdul Jabaar playing pro sport. It just wont happen.

 

[King Boonen]

Are we to believe that Kittel has never even broken a cycling rule? Yellow line? Feed zone? Number placement?

Doesn't seem the point of the test so I doubt they asked any questions about that.

Never used caffeine, or any other 'legal' doping product?

the quote marks make your opinion clear but why ask? Doping in sport implies illegal substances. If they're not illegal they're not doping.

Never 'accidentally' hampered someone's line in a sprint or in a corner?

Again, why ask? This is a subjective question and is purely centered on Kittel's opinion of what he has done. If he's been sanctioned he won't lie, if he hasn't been sanctioned he probably thinks he hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[King Boonen]

if you read my posts, i have offered a strategy to avoid a confirmation bias.

if one takes the entire bloc of pro athletes, 1980, v entire bloc pro athletes, 2010.

one avoids an individual sample error.

or, one could argue, that heads are now a reverse engineered indicator, or professional sporting talent. these hormones only manifest over the last three decades, and especially in the last decade.

we will never have another pinhead like Kareem Abdul Jabaar playing pro sport. It just wont happen.

Feel free to post the entire data set you have produced then along with all the required metadata. A drive provide large file hosting, I'm pretty sure you're going to need it.

 

[blackcat]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...tYEx4Hqbi0ky3qkNxVPaJ0g&bvm=bv.50500085,d.dGI

 

[King Boonen]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...tYEx4Hqbi0ky3qkNxVPaJ0g&bvm=bv.50500085,d.dGI

Ok Emma, you realise that's just an article? It's not a full set of data on every pro sports man and woman from the 80's including head measurements and accompanying metadata.

Did you make an assumption based on a couple of pictures of well-known sports stars, apply that across a ridiculous range of people, invent the results and then claim that's what it would show? I think this is probably right.

 

[D-Queued]

Doesn't seem the point of the test so I doubt they asked any questions about that.



the quote marks make your opinion clear but why ask? Doping in sport implies illegal substances. If they're not illegal they're not doping.



Again, why ask? This is a subjective question and is purely centered on Kittel's opinion of what he has done. If he's been sanctioned he won't lie, if he hasn't been sanctioned he probably thinks he hasn't done anything wrong.

Your point is well taken. Your point is pointy?

If I were asked had I ever taken a doping substance, I would have to say yes.

Caffeine has been on the banned list, and I know that it has. I have taken it, and I take it prior to almost every single race.

I am also aware that the list changes, and substances are added and removed. The example of Silken Laumann, for example, is interesting as Sudafed is no longer on the list.

Personally, I have actually had a TUE for Ventalin in the past, and some cyclists have been busted for it. But now it appears that it is not on the list.

My point being is that if Kittel answers as you have suggested that is one thing.

But, that is BS answer as there is lots of grey area and you would really have to think about it. How do you construct yes/no questions with so much grey area?

Thus, the specific questions are what is of greater interest than whether he 'lied'.

Dave.

 

[King Boonen]

Your point is well taken. Your point is pointy?

If I were asked had I ever taken a doping substance, I would have to say yes.

Caffeine has been on the banned list, and I know that it has. I have taken it, and I take it prior to almost every single race.

I am also aware that the list changes, and substances are added and removed. The example of Silken Laumann, for example, is interesting as Sudafed is no longer on the list.

Personally, I have actually had a TUE for Ventalin in the past, and some cyclists have been busted for it. But now it appears that it is not on the list.

My point being is that if Kittel answers as you have suggested that is one thing.

But, that is BS answer as there is lots of grey area and you would really have to think about it. How do you construct yes/no questions with so much grey area?

Thus, the specific questions are what is of greater interest than whether he 'lied'.

Dave.

It's not grey if the questions are worded correctly. You ask if they have even taken a substance that, at that time, was on the banned list. You can then ask about TUEs or even add that into the question.

These tests are all about black and white answers and it's perfectly possible to word them in a way that there is only a yes or no answer. Without seeing the questions we can't really comment, but I'm assuming the tester did their job properly.

I believe Alain Baxter got busted due to something having a different formulation in Canada compared to the UK, that's also another unfortunate one.

Have the questions been made public?

 

[amp300]

Can't believe no one has done this yet

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/kittel-takes-lie-detector-test-to-prove-he-is-clean/273141

obviously looking at the above picture, Kittel clearly has time traveled from Soviet Russia to modern day Germany

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CXVtm97fWDo/TOoyCBzawdI/AAAAAAAACGc/Nffo33E-GH8/s1600/Ivan+Drago.jpg


This should explain all doping questions.
(sorry at work and no image hosting sites work)

 

[kingjr]

was that when Cav was not well positioned, and coming from far back, like 5 lengths back? in that case, my point still stands. until 2013, never seen cav lose a fair mano a mano field sprint

No Greipel came from Cav's wheel.

 

[blackcat]

No Greipel came from Cav's wheel.

ta kingjr

think Kittell is the rightful heir to Cipollini. Pettachi an imposter, in a weak field. Cav really needs competition. he prolly can raise his game to a new level with a competitor in Kittell. Will be good entertainment. I like the gross watts sprinter also. Cav is entertaining and nigh unbeatable if both have to be in the wind from 300. not a fan of petacchi. fan of kittell tho

 

[mudbone]

the doc (veloclinic) on the test

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/58157292258/kittel-lie-detector-test-clarifying-missconceptions

 

[martinvickers]

It's not grey if the questions are worded correctly. You ask if they have even taken a substance that, at that time, was on the banned list. You can then ask about TUEs or even add that into the question.

These tests are all about black and white answers and it's perfectly possible to word them in a way that there is only a yes or no answer. Without seeing the questions we can't really comment, but I'm assuming the tester did their job properly.

I believe Alain Baxter got busted due to something having a different formulation in Canada compared to the UK, that's also another unfortunate one.

Have the questions been made public?

Vicks inhaler. despite same name, the US version contained pseudoephidrine, i think (Salt lake gmes, no?)

 

[Benotti69]

Wow, the sport really is in the sh!t bucket when riders start taking lie detector tests to try and throw us off the scent.

Sorry Kittel, no dice.

 

[Escarabajo]

didn't Kittel criticize contador somewhere saying berty should stay out of the sport?
If kittel believes in lie detectors he should stfu about ContadOr.

What kind of logic is yours?

Whether he can beat a lie detector is another topic but he is, at least, being consistent. And you are criticizing him for it. I don't understand.

 

[oldcrank]

didn't Kittel criticize contador somewhere saying berty should stay out of the sport?

I really like Kittel, he's not afraid to speak his mind about
getting rid of the scum that is infecting pro cycling. He is
part of the new generation and not beholden to the Omerta.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Wow, the sport really is in the sh!t bucket when riders start taking lie detector tests to try and throw us off the scent.

Sorry Kittel, no dice.

This. Haven't so many before him done the LDT thing?