Kittel passes lie detector test, looks like he's clean!

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Jul 15, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
I am happy he called out some big names.

But i am not happy that he was manipulating his blood to gain advantage.
Kittel came out and did an interview within a week of the TV programme revealing the UV treatment. http://www.zeit.de/sport/2012-02/interview-kittel-doping-erfurt/seite-1

Some of what he said, quite candid on a number of points;

"I went to him because I was sick, had the flu or a sore throat, not because I wanted to improve my performance. I trusted him. Do you not do this if you go to the doctor? I asked him if it was doping. He has denied that. I was only 18 years old.

"I guess I was too naive, maybe had too little self-confidence to contradict an authority. As an athlete, of course you have a responsibility that I had not yet lived. Today I say: If I had simply not done! [I didn't feel an effect] nor did I feel healthier faster.

"Last year, the World Cycling Federation established a 'No Needle Policy'. I think that's good. Franke's therapy always felt weird.

"Yes, the cycling has serious problems - even if has improved a lot since Fuentes, as many older colleagues say. It is also clear there will always be cheaters. I have nothing to hide, I want to be transparent. I feel obliged [to] the anti-doping fight."
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Avoriaz said:
You know, there just may be a reason for that.

Two of the above are proven cheats, two aren't. Nothing to do with pro-anglo saxon bias
sayer wasn't when kittel commented on him.
again, what's the difference between sayer and froome?
froome is stealing more wins than sayer is.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Pretty much nailed my sentiments on the matter.
Yep. Pretty much.

Lie detector proves next to nothing but it's a hell of a risk to take if you do have somerthing to hide.

Willingness to take lie detector suggests therefore he is either

a) probably clean or
b) doping away with a cynicism pretty much unmatched, even by Armstrong.

Given his now-vindicated anger in turkey, and relative candidness about the UV light, you have to veer towards a) at the moment, surely. And that must be 'a good thing'.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Or to flip it -
Its amazing that Sky dont release their information to the millions of people who would appreciate it, including Scientists, physiologists, journalists etc by hiding behind the interpretations of less than 10 stupid people.
Hmmm, puts me in mind of Yeats...

"...everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
 
Aug 8, 2009
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Lie detectors are very flawed indicators (although they do help scientologists get in touch with Zenu.)

But still, you have to respect the guy for trying. What else can he do? 24/7 webcam?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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sashimono said:
Lie detectors are very flawed indicators (although they do help scientologists get in touch with Zenu.)
we won't know how flawed or not kittel's test was until we see the questions asked.
For now i think this nicely fits in with several mediatic attempts (amongst others by kittel himself) to regenerate interest in cycling in germany. Germany is a huge market currently largely out of cycling's reach, a market with lots of sponsors. Kittel aint no fool, he's not doing this for fun. He's doing this because the size of his paycheck eventually depends on it.

sashimono said:
But still, you have to respect the guy for trying. What else can he do? 24/7 webcam?
He could have said something about Froome's Tour performance.
He could also call out Sky for their general lack of transparency. Kittel presumably stands for transparency. Or Sky's hiring of Leinders.
He could call out (or at least tweet something about) Wiggins for his rant last year, which wasn't exactly in the spirit of our transparent Kittel. Etc. Instead, Kittel has picked easy targets and made some gratuite statements about anti-doping.
He clearly has read the 'perception is reality' manual carefully.
If he's clean, he should go all the way, because dopers are stealing wins from him.
I doubt he's clean though.
You don't reach Paris in such a splendid shape, beating Cavendish, on bread and water.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
we won't know how flawed or not kittel's test was until we see the questions asked.
For now i think this nicely fits in with several mediatic attempts (amongst others by kittel himself) to regenerate interest in cycling in germany. Germany is a huge market currently largely out of cycling's reach, a market with lots of sponsors. Kittel aint no fool, he's not doing this for fun. He's doing this because the size of his paycheck eventually depends on it.


He could have said something about Froome's Tour performance.
He could also call out Sky for their general lack of transparency. Kittel presumably stands for transparency. Or Sky's hiring of Leinders.
He could call out (or at least tweet something about) Wiggins for his rant last year, which wasn't exactly in the spirit of our transparent Kittel. Etc. Instead, Kittel has picked easy targets and made some gratuite statements about anti-doping.

He clearly has read the 'perception is reality' manual carefully.
If he's clean, he should go all the way, because dopers are stealing wins from him.
I doubt he's clean though.
You don't reach Paris in such a splendid shape, beating Cavendish, on bread and water.
Thanks for this- obviously Kittel is a massive hypocrite, huge. :rolleyes:

But could you clarify if he is a hypocrite for:
the highlighted, not calling out Wiggo & Anglo-Saxon types.
Or the blue where he is actually doping all along?
Thanks.
 
the sceptic said:
i bet you were crying yourself to sleep after Kimmage questioned Brailsford on EBH though.
:rolleyes:Not even close. When Kimmage began filming himself
in his own reality show he and his questions started losing any
credibility he still had left. He is now making a mockery of what
he used to stand for. And note to PK: unless you start dressing
better your Reality TV Show will never rival the Kardashians.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Thanks for this- obviously Kittel is a massive hypocrite, huge. :rolleyes:

But could you clarify if he is a hypocrite for:
the highlighted, not calling out Wiggo & Anglo-Saxon types.
Or the blue where he is actually doping all along?
Thanks.
as you know, per default i suspect winners to be dopers, at least in sports where doping matters and where the financial steaks(stakes?) are high.
That's just the way it has been in the past couple of decades, so everybody with half a brain should have a default suspicion about winners of Kittel's kind.

that said, Kittel is certainly giving us stuff to ponder about.
He won't earn my trust though until he starts calling out guys like Sky.
From what I've seen from Kittel (the tweets against turks and spaniards), that's gratuite, and is more likely to fuel my suspicion than to temper it.
Not that he cares about my trust, but that's a different matter.
His tweets and actions are scoring him a lot of pluspoints in the (german) media. Good for him.
 
sniper said:
He could have said something about Froome's Tour performance.
You don't seem to understand the new generation of clean
riders have nothing against Froomie, it is unrepentant lying
cheaters like Contador they have problems with...and that
is precisely why Kittel publicly called out the low-life Bertie.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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oldcrank said:
:rolleyes:Not even close. When Kimmage began filming himself
in his own reality show he and his questions started losing any
credibility he still had left. He is now making a mockery of what
he used to stand for. And note to PK: unless you start dressing
better your Reality TV Show will never rival the Kardashians.
A Wiggans fan giving fashion advice?
Ok.


sniper said:
as you know, per default i suspect winners to be dopers, at least in sports where doping matters and where the financial steaks(stakes?) are high.
That's just the way it has been in the past couple of decades, so everybody with half a brain should have a default suspicion about winners of Kittel's kind.

that said, Kittel is certainly giving us stuff to ponder about.
He won't earn my trust though until he starts calling out guys like Sky.
From what I've seen from Kittel (the tweets against turks and spaniards), that's gratuite, and is more likely to fuel my suspicion than to temper it.
Not that he cares about my trust, but that's a different matter.
His tweets and actions are scoring him a lot of pluspoints in the (german) media. Good for him.
Just to clarify - which nations does he need to 'out' for your pleasure?


And wont he still be a hypocrite because he denys doping yet wins races (your default suspicion) :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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oldcrank said:
You don't seem to understand the new generation of clean
riders have nothing against Froomie, it is unrepentant lying
cheaters like Contador they have problems with...and that
is precisely why Kittel publicly called out the low-life Bertie.
Did Sir Wiggo say he loved Lance - what generation does that make him, oldcranky?
 
Sep 14, 2011
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I agree with sniper, Kittel should devote all his attention to outing Brits and Brits only. It's a complete joke the way he bullied Mustafa Sayar during the Tour of Turkey. Let's have some stuff about Cav as well, show some proper guts please Marcel!
 
webbie146 said:
lol I bet Lance would pass the lie detector test without a sweat, that guy is a professional in beating tests :D
An old acquaintance of mine runs rings around any polygraph. He's a pathological liar. And a barrister, wouldn't you know.

hrotha said:
By all accounts, lie detector tests can be beaten clean just by knowing how they work, learning a trick or two and practicing a little.
You don't beat the machine, you beat the operator. They all make mistakes but the best operators don't make many. OTOH, the best operators all have more important matters to tend to than polygraphing bicyclists.
 

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