Kittel passes lie detector test, looks like he's clean!

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Jul 29, 2012
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kingjr said:
Did anyone ever ask him? Directly, I mean?
He called him out on twitter without anyone asking him anything.

King Boonen said:
Perhaps, just perhaps, he doesn't think Froome is doping.

There were many reports about Sayer having needle marks on his arms.

This really is getting ridiculous.
Never proven to be true but ok Froome has the whole bilharzia story which appears to be a very inconcistent story.

Look up some posts of well known forum members who gathered a lot of holes in the story.
 

Dr. Maserati

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I am trying to catch up.


So, 'sniper' is upset because Kittel didn't mention Froome, this must mean racism. And of course hypocrisy (always hypocrisy).

The people upset about the "racism" innuendo, but forth by a couple of posters are not Turkish, or Sayer supporters, but Froome/Sky/British supporters.
And LaFlorenca is upset because Kittel said bad things about Contador.

Have I missed anything?
 
Dr. Maserati said:
I am trying to catch up.


So, 'sniper' is upset because Kittel didn't mention Froome, this must mean racism. And of course hypocrisy (always hypocrisy).

The people upset about the "racism" innuendo, but forth by a couple of posters are not Turkish, or Sayer supporters, but Froome/Sky/British supporters.
And LaFlorenca is upset because Kittel said bad things about Contador.

Have I missed anything?
This bit is wrong, at least regarding me. While British I'm not much of a "Sky fan", I don't really support anyone, I just like good racing. I don't see why I'd need to be Turkish to be upset with racism directed at a Turkish rider, although I don't think that's what you are implying?
 
Miburo said:
He called him out on twitter without anyone asking him anything.



Never proven to be true but ok Froome has the whole bilharzia story which appears to be a very inconcistent story.

Look up some posts of well known forum members who gathered a lot of holes in the story.
I've read the Bilharzia posts. It does look suspect but it's been pieced together from news reports and interviews with people who may easily get things a bit wrong. I'm not defending it, but what is really needed is someone at Team Sky to outline the whole progession of the disease and treatment, which to be honest, isn't ever really going to happen.

I still don't see how it would be enough for Kittel to be expected to call him out though.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Miburo said:
Once again my question: Why not Froome?

Did he ever gave us a logical reason why he targeted a turkish rider but not a guy like Froome?

If he has some hidden info then share it with the public. But if he bases himself on the fact that it's a ridiculous performance and that he came out of nowhere, he's being a hypocrite.
Nice you ask for logic while asking something illogical
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
I am trying to catch up.


So, 'sniper' is upset because Kittel didn't mention Froome, this must mean racism. And of course hypocrisy (always hypocrisy).
wtf, doc?
i haven't used the word racism.
seriously, get off my back.
moderators, could anybody tell doc maserati to get off my back?
he/she/it has got some sort of obsession with getting on my back, e.g. by putting words into my mouth, not just in this thread. I hardly ever engage with maserati, but s/he's continously engaging with me in a rather unpleasant way. I'm here for fun, doc, i know you aren't, but that's your business.
I don't think his/her/their continuous personalized dissing in various threads is in the spirit of this forum and I'd be thankful if a moderator could tell him/her/them to please put me on ignore or simply get off my back.

moderators, thanks.
 

Dr. Maserati

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sniper said:
wtf, doc?
i haven't used the word racism.
seriously, get off my back.
moderators, could anybody tell doc maserati to get off my back?
he's got some sort of obsession with getting on my back, e.g. by putting words into my mouth, not just in this thread. I hardly ever engage with maserati, but s/he's continously engaging with me in a rather unpleasant way. I'm here for fun, doc, i know you aren't, but that's your business.
I don't think his/her/their continuous personalized dissing in various threads is in the spirit of this forum and I'd be thankful if a moderator could tell him/her/them to please put me on ignore or simply get off my back.

thanks.
Boohoo - I am not on your back, but when you write something I have every right to question it. The fact that you write a lot of questionable posts is not my fault, its yours because you have an inconsistent argument.

Also, I never said you used the word racism, but you most certainly introduced that as a possible motivation by Kittel in this earlier post:
sniper said:
In an annoyingly gratuite way.
sayer bad, froome good.
contador bad, wiggins good.
His pro anglosaxon bias ressmbles phat's
 
Jul 29, 2012
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I just don't understand the logic guys like Kittel or JV have.

Apperently for the likes of JV it was obvious santa doped. The guy who thinks Froome is clean thinks it was obvious santa doped.

I agree of course, it was obvious he doped. We all said it, but what's the difference with Froome?

Just like with this turkish rider. Yea he had reports of needle marks but what about Froome's whole blood story then? If you care so much about clean cycling like Kittel does then why not pay attention to an inconcistent story of the best GT-rider of the world?

And no i'm not frustrated that Froome beat Contador. He was not the only guy who beat him after all, contador just sucked:D If i really was so frustrated i should go after quintana and purito too. Although purito is also very suspicious of course.

Going ad hominem won't help your argument.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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martinvickers said:
The clinic has been scraping along for a while at the bottom - the enforced break didn't help much. Enjoy it's inate comedy value, use it to vent from time to time, and leave it at that, Jim - it's not of much use for anything else, and it's not really designed to be.
Well the good stuff gets drowned out in all the white noise unfortunately, as the trolls use it as a platform for their own prejudices. Quite why a rider calling out another one who subsequently gets popped comes in for fierce criticism from an 'anti-doping' forum is beyond me.

Makes me think that doping is actually secondary to having a jolly old time slagging off riders you don't like.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Boohoo - I am not on your back, but when you write something I have every right to question it. The fact that you write a lot of questionable posts is not my fault, its yours because you have an inconsistent argument.

Also, I never said you used the word racism, but you most certainly introduced that as a possible motivation by Kittel in this earlier post:
i didn't imply racism. you're putting it into my mouth and i again kindly ask moderators to do something about this.
if kittel has an anglosaxon bias (which you, in one of your less clever moments, suggested a german can't have;)), it's for commercial, not racist, reasons.
 

Dr. Maserati

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JimmyFingers said:
Well the good stuff gets drowned out in all the white noise unfortunately, as the trolls use it as a platform for their own prejudices. Quite why a rider calling out another one who subsequently gets popped comes in for fierce criticism from an 'anti-doping' forum is beyond me.

Makes me think that doping is actually secondary to having a jolly old time slagging off riders you don't like.
Thanks for proving my earlier point - this is a general forum on cycling, this part of the forum is where discussions on doping can take place.

This is not an 'anti-doping' forum.
The people 'upset' are not upset with what Kittel said, but about who (and in their view who he didn't) call out.
The noise is from the fans of those riders.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Gogojv said:
Indeed he was ill last year tdf.
kittel.
last bus + protected by teammates + experienced teammates and directors how to be not out of time.

Kittel is one of the best things for cycling at the moment. top cyclist who speaks anti-doping.
He even openly accused another rider of doping. Focus your anger on other riders/teams. kittel needs support from fans and other cyclist not anger from clynic cynics.
John Gadret and a number of French riders had some choice things to say about Sky. I don't hear anyone parading them around as beacons and champions of cycling.

Oh that's right...they didn't beat one of the most obvious dopers in cycling multiple times in his prime domain, on his stomping grounds! Cav had his WORST Tour ever. Worst. Kittel won double the number of stages he did and denied him on the Champs Elysees. Note Cav got next to no support the year before on Sky and won a lot more and that is discounting his CRASHES.

Lap it up this year. It's over next year. OPQS will take it up a notch and despite what you think, Mark Renshaw is by far and wide the BEST leadout man in the world. Cav will be back to business next year again. If Eisel joins as well then it's all over red rover.

That should shut Kittel up with his idiocy. And no, don't respond to this with nonsense. Kittel was one of three German riders parading their clean cards to German press months back. One of the others, well his face looks even more like the acromegaly blackcat mentions than Kittel's does, with massive sunken eye sockets under a protruding browline...oh and this rider is on OPQS. Kittel is in the same boat.

Same story as usual. Just like picking on Heras, Mancebo, Jaksche, Ricco, Kohl, Manzano, Hamilton, Landis...take your pick, the list goes on. Some guys are whipping material. Always pick on the obvious ones...or the ones who scream to be made a scapegoat. What makes Kittel worse, is that the odds of him being clean are so low it isn't funny. Most riderrs STFU. Most. Not Kittel...he lines up some Turkish schlep who is cannon fodder. Too easy!

In the very narrow chance he is clean, which is unlikely, him not taking a swipe at Froome and Sky is yeah...typical. As I said, AG2R riders had the balls to say Sky were disliked. It was clear why. Basso said the obvious the year before. But Kittel...now there is a champion!

Free marketing tip Marcel. STFU and say nothing. When you're beating Frodo, that's the fracking same thing as Froome stomping Contador. What a moron.
 

Dr. Maserati

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sniper said:
i didn't imply racism. you're putting it into my mouth and i again kindly ask moderators to do something about this.
Why should a mod intervene?
You wrote 'anglo-saxon' - I assume you are a big boy and can explain why you used the term without it being viewed as a racist or nationalistic bias.

sniper said:
if kittel has an anglosaxon bias (which you, in one of your less clever moments, suggested a german can't have;)), it's for commercial, not racist, reasons.
Cool - explain that exactly.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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sniper said:
i didn't imply racism. you're putting it into my mouth and i again kindly ask moderators to do something about this.
if kittel has an anglosaxon bias (which you, in one of your less clever moments, suggested a german can't have;)), it's for commercial, not racist, reasons.
He can't pick on the other big named obvious dopers. Take Tony Martin. Both were parading around with someone else...was it Ciolek?...to the German press. Said they were clean.

Nah, it's just Germans testing the waters after T-Mobile. Hoping people have forgotten.

I'd love to see a poll from Germany asking how many think Kittel and Martin are clean. I don't know if it'd go to well.

If you pick on Martin...well he rides for OPQS and by extension you're picking on Cav. You've just thumped Cav. You've had a VERY good season. People will ask questions. Join the dots. The big wigs don't attack one another. Only the brazen, like Ricco, the confessors, like Jaksche and Kohl, or the simply unlucky and little men, this Turkish bloke.

Proof. People's memories suck. Lance Armstrong on his comeback. Bags out Paul Kimmage at a press conference, has Levi and George next to him. CVV there as well and they are all in shock at what Lance did. Then Lance defended Floyd! Yes...defended the guy who later did the dirty on him. Do people not get how OMERTA works!? That there was prime proof when Floyd talked that Lance was a liar. But the fanboys didn't want to hear it.

Same with Kittel. The numbers on him not playing his omerta cards are so low it isn't funny. IMO, like I said, if he STFU he'd not be a hypocrite. He cannot even claim that now.

Thus assuming he is clean and expecting him to turn on Froome? If he was clean, he in all probability would have. Even if that wasn't the case...it never was going to happen. It's one giant house of cards...he takes a swipe at them, they swipe back and both houses fall. MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Both sides get soiled and destroyed, thus you pick on some minor level guy in Turkey and fool some oafs into thinking you're legit.

Hey it worked!!!
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Thanks for proving my earlier point - this is a general forum on cycling, this part of the forum is where discussions on doping can take place.

This is not an 'anti-doping' forum.
The people 'upset' are not upset with what Kittel said, but about who (and in their view who he didn't) call out.
The noise is from the fans of those riders.
Oh my bad. I assumed the general theme here was 'doping bad, clean good mmkay'. I now realise it's about which riders you like and don't like. If you like them their doping is ok, if you don't then their doping is a crime beyond measure.

Also I've learnt I'm an 'anglo' and as such naturally side with other 'anglos' like Americans and apparently Germans against those that live close to the Med. Spanish, Italian and Turks, the occasional Greek, the Occitan people perhaps. Not sure about Portuguese, they are Southern Europeans but they are on the Atlantic coast.

Apparently Europe is riven by a huge North-South divide that is obvious to observers from Australia and the like, but less so to us that actually live here.

Anglo's unite! I may get a t-shirt: 'I'm Anglo, are you?' Or 'Touch me, I'm Anglo'.
 
May 26, 2010
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Miburo said:
I just don't understand the logic guys like Kittel or JV have.

Apperently for the likes of JV it was obvious santa doped. The guy who thinks Froome is clean thinks it was obvious santa doped.

I agree of course, it was obvious he doped. We all said it, but what's the difference with Froome?

Just like with this turkish rider. Yea he had reports of needle marks but what about Froome's whole blood story then? If you care so much about clean cycling like Kittel does then why not pay attention to an inconcistent story of the best GT-rider of the world?

And no i'm not frustrated that Froome beat Contador. He was not the only guy who beat him after all, contador just sucked:D If i really was so frustrated i should go after quintana and purito too. Although purito is also very suspicious of course.

Going ad hominem won't help your argument.
Because Kittel knows, like JV, which side their bread is buttered on.

JV and Kittel say enough and in the correct manner to look a certain way but in reality both have failed as they have not called out the elephant in the room, Sky.

It was the same with Armstrong and USPS, few dared to say anything against Armstrong, if they did there were big repercussions. Look at Bassons.

And what Galic Ho wrote is similar point to mine.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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JimmyFingers said:
Oh my bad. I assumed the general theme here was 'doping bad, clean good mmkay'. I now realise it's about which riders you like and don't like. If you like them their doping is ok, if you don't then their doping is a crime beyond measure.
Almost Jimmy, but not quite.

Most (but not all) here advocate clean cycling and those that 'like' a rider come up with sometimes amazing or crazy theories to explain their riders ability.

JimmyFingers said:
Also I've learnt I'm an 'anglo' and as such naturally side with other 'anglos' like Americans and apparently Germans against those that live close to the Med. Spanish, Italian and Turks, the occasional Greek, the Occitan people perhaps. Not sure about Portuguese, they are Southern Europeans but they are on the Atlantic coast.

Apparently Europe is riven by a huge North-South divide that is obvious to observers from Australia and the like, but less so to us that actually live here.

Anglo's unite! I may get a t-shirt: 'I'm Anglo, are you?' Or 'Touch me, I'm Anglo'.
IMO, you would not have posted in this thread except that Froome/Sky got mentioned.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Actually Jimmy, this one would be on the Germans, not picking on the Germans. Selling clean cycling to Germany.

Typically speaking Jimmy, it's the Greeks who hate the Turks. This rift between nationalities...it's not the riders. It's the fans and the administrators. Maybe one or two riders. It's the marketers and advertisers, the conniving spruikers who have played the 'some nations are dirty card.'

Want proof? Oldcrank. It's quite amusing he was bashing Contador for supposedly talking and backing Lance. When? Note he mentioned Samu and Purito...odd that he forgot Valverde. Why? Because I read their words last year when the incident in point happened. Samu was bad...Valverde was really bad. Contador's response was normal for someone who cannot afford to sink his own ship. It was contained. But Contador always is. Two parallels on how one should play their cards. Kittel vs Contador.

Did you not forget, Contador almost destroyed the Spanish beef industry! That lack of iron in the Spanish diet due to the low confidence level's in the market led to some Spanish engineers not getting the sufficient dietary macros and nutrient uptake, thus rendering their brains reasoning skills well below optimal conditions resulting in this:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/498466/20130812/intempo-benidorm-spain-tallest-skyscraper-europe-photos.htm

Remember to blame Contador for that one. Clearly down to a lack of iron and protein in the engineers diets. Where as Marcel Kittel...poster boy for New German Cycling!

Back to Kittel...Germany has been quiet. Very quiet. Like 'All Quiet on the Western Front.' Why shouldn't Germany get a piece of the pie again? Note the united German rider front, trying to resell clean cycling. It's not like Germany has the strongest economy in Europe is it? Nah, those are just folk tales we all hear! If throwing some random under a bus, who was an obvious call for doping, parading around with Tony Martin, stomping Mark Cavendish and then taking a lie detector test whilst clenching your glutes, well that is all in a days work for clean cycling! It's not like Germany has been fooled before is it?

Even if the aim is only one sponsor to buy it. Or a few...that's enough. BTW a good tell would be whether the German broadcast the Tour anymore? I know they stopped, did they start again. 2007 killed it from memory. Or is Eurosport the way to go? It's about the $$$. Germany has so much money to spare it isn't funny.
 
King Boonen said:
Very good question that.

No, you don't. But that does mean you can never complain about anyone winning because of doping. I don't know if you do, that's just a general point.

It's a bit like not voting and then complaining about the government, just doesn't make sense.
What if my opinion doesn't match with the opinions of well known others?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
Because Kittel knows, like JV, which side their bread is buttered on.

JV and Kittel say enough and in the correct manner to look a certain way but in reality both have failed as they have not called out the elephant in the room, Sky.

It was the same with Armstrong and USPS, few dared to say anything against Armstrong, if they did there were big repercussions. Look at Bassons.

And what Galic Ho wrote is similar point to mine.
+10 (also to Miburo's and Galic Ho's posts with similar thrust).

Kittel's lie detector test is nice, but the only appropriate way to look at it, for now, is with skepsis.
Luckily for guys like Kittel and JV, the bulk of present-day sports journalism desperately (and willingly) lacks any form of skepsis.

German sports media aren't consistent as they hardly apply their skepsis to any sport other than cycling. Still, however, that skeptic attitude tangible in German coverage of cycling should be the norm for sports journalism at large, at least if truthfinding is considered an aim of journalism.
In an ideal world, skepsis would also be the norm for most cycling fans. But we're eons away from that.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
IMO, you would not have posted in this thread except that Froome/Sky got mentioned.
Go and check the original Kittel tweet thread, and read what I wrote there. It may prove illuminating.
 

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