Kittel passes lie detector test, looks like he's clean!

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Oct 16, 2010
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oldcrank said:
You don't seem to understand the new generation of clean
riders have nothing against Froomie, it is unrepentant lying
cheaters like Contador they have problems with...and that
is precisely why Kittel publicly called out the low-life Bertie.
fair point i guess.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Bernie's eyesore said:
I agree with sniper, Kittel should devote all his attention to outing Brits and Brits only. It's a complete joke the way he bullied Mustafa Sayar during the Tour of Turkey. Let's have some stuff about Cav as well, show some proper guts please Marcel!
i'm not saying he should out anybody. he's not a fool and I'm not asking him to be a fool.
I'm just saying i don't find him credible.
not saying i don't understand his actions.
he's human and he cares about his paycheck.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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For me one of the lowest moments in the clinic came when many turned on him when he accused Sayer, insinuating racism first, then making him part of some phantom anglo alliance against the 'Southern Europeans' by dint of being German. So clearly the first nationality likely to side with the Brits and the Americans.

I'm sure the concept of the abused Southern European is an as mystifying collective as this bizarre 'anglo' idea is to me. At best a stereotype, at worse racial prejudice, but certainly lowest common denominator thinking. Convenient for the conspiracists of course.

Kittel looks to me like a pretty straight talker. the secret pro also said that within the peloton there wasn't questioning of Froome. It's a disservice to him to will him to denounce the riders you want him to denounce or you'll hold his own performance suspect.
 
Dec 23, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
Kittel looks to me like a pretty straight talker. the secret pro also said that within the peloton there wasn't questioning of Froome. It's a disservice to him to will him to denounce the riders you want him to denounce or you'll hold his own performance suspect.
What's with this secret pro BS anyway? For all we know it's a group of people just trolling, pulling the strings and having a good laugh at the fans expense.

And the peloton not being vocal against Froome, that's called not throwing stones in glass houses, plain and simple.

It's too damn soon to give ANYBODY the benefit of the doubt in cycling, it will take many changes and possibly many years, until the power structures in charge of anti-doping are truly independent and they truly do their best effort to clean up the current charade.

For now just enjoy the racing for what it is, entertainment not fair competition.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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la_bicicleta said:
What's with this secret pro BS anyway? For all we know it's a group of people just trolling, pulling the strings and having a good laugh at the fans expense.

And the peloton not being vocal against Froome, that's called not throwing stones in glass houses, plain and simple.

It's too damn soon to give ANYBODY the benefit of the doubt in cycling, it will take many changes and possibly many years, until the power structures in charge of anti-doping are truly independent and they truly do their best effort to clean up the current charade.

For now just enjoy the racing for what it is, entertainment not fair competition.
nah, its the Dutch Skil rider, who won a two-up timetrial with Tommy Dekker when they were one Rabo espoirs, back about 2003ish. Koen and Tommy. dont tell me they werent doping when they won that , what was it, the Eddy Merckx GP.

hey Koen, were you clean then?

its just a piece propaganda
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
For me one of the lowest moments in the clinic came when many turned on him when he accused Sayer, insinuating racism first, then making him part of some phantom anglo alliance against the 'Southern Europeans' by dint of being German. So clearly the first nationality likely to side with the Brits and the Americans.

I'm sure the concept of the abused Southern European is an as mystifying collective as this bizarre 'anglo' idea is to me. At best a stereotype, at worse racial prejudice, but certainly lowest common denominator thinking. Convenient for the conspiracists of course.

Kittel looks to me like a pretty straight talker. the secret pro also said that within the peloton there wasn't questioning of Froome. It's a disservice to him to will him to denounce the riders you want him to denounce or you'll hold his own performance suspect.
The clinic has been scraping along for a while at the bottom - the enforced break didn't help much. Enjoy it's inate comedy value, use it to vent from time to time, and leave it at that, Jim - it's not of much use for anything else, and it's not really designed to be.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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sniper said:
i'm not saying he should out anybody. he's not a fool and I'm not asking him to be a fool.
I'm just saying i don't find him credible.
not saying i don't understand his actions.
he's human and he cares about his paycheck.
So you're not saying he should spend all his time outing Brits.

You're just saying he's not credible because he doesn't.

Got ya now. thanks
 
sniper said:
we won't know how flawed or not kittel's test was until we see the questions asked.
For now i think this nicely fits in with several mediatic attempts (amongst others by kittel himself) to regenerate interest in cycling in germany. Germany is a huge market currently largely out of cycling's reach, a market with lots of sponsors. Kittel aint no fool, he's not doing this for fun. He's doing this because the size of his paycheck eventually depends on it.


He could have said something about Froome's Tour performance.
He could also call out Sky for their general lack of transparency. Kittel presumably stands for transparency. Or Sky's hiring of Leinders.
He could call out (or at least tweet something about) Wiggins for his rant last year, which wasn't exactly in the spirit of our transparent Kittel. Etc. Instead, Kittel has picked easy targets and made some gratuite statements about anti-doping.
He clearly has read the 'perception is reality' manual carefully.
If he's clean, he should go all the way, because dopers are stealing wins from him.
I doubt he's clean though.
You don't reach Paris in such a splendid shape, beating Cavendish, on bread and water
.
What kind of criteria is that?

Basically everyone is dirty!.

At some point we need to draw the line somewhere.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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gooner said:
Because he called out your hero for what he is.
Wrong bro. Try again next time.

Was talking about calling out a turkish rider while not saying anything about Froome. What's the difference between these 2? What's the criteria Kittel bases himself on to call a rider out?
 
The constant blatant and back-handed accusations of racism against Kittel are getting ridiculous. He called out Sayer because he thought he was doping and, it seems, he had needle marks on his arm.

Maybe, just maybe, he hasn't called out Froome because he doesn't think he's doping.

It's getting very easy to see why this place is seen as a massive joke on most other forums, and good posts just get lost in the mire.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Miburo said:
Wrong bro. Try again next time.

Was talking about calling out a turkish rider while not saying anything about Froome. What's the difference between these 2? What's the criteria Kittel bases himself on to call a rider out?
Whatever criteria he was using, the fact is that he was spot on. Somehow I can't see him adopting the clinic's stance of throwing mud at everybody and hoping it sticks. Of course, instead of giving him some credit for getting it right, he just has to face accusations of racism and abuse for not aiming his comments at British riders.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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King Boonen said:
The constant blatant and back-handed accusations of racism against Kittel are getting ridiculous. He called out Sayer because he thought he was doping and, it seems, he had needle marks on his arm.

Maybe, just maybe, he hasn't called out Froome because he doesn't think he's doping.

It's getting very easy to see why this place is seen as a massive joke on most other forums, and good posts just get lost in the mire.
but we cant call out Kittell even those he flurescent lights his blood up like CSI Las Vegas putting the bluelight over Tigers room at the Palms after a night with a cocktail waitress
 
blackcat said:
but we cant call out Kittell even those he flurescent lights his blood up like CSI Las Vegas putting the bluelight over Tigers room at the Palms after a night with a cocktail waitress
While this has nothing to do with the post you quote I'll still answer you, even though you never posted that data.

Feel free to call him out, just not with some utter rubbish about brow-size you've gleaned from reading a JV interview and your 'expert' opinion based on looking at a couple of photos.

The UV treatment is pseudo-scientific rubbish, as was recently ruled. I believe Kittel when he says he believed it wasn't doping.

Call him out on the fact his climbing seems to have improved a lot while he is still as fast in the sprint, that's about the only indicator I can see. Of course, he's young and still getting used to long stage races so I see no problem with it, but it's about the only thing in his performances that could be questioned.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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King Boonen said:
While this has nothing to do with the post you quote I'll still answer you, even though you never posted that data.

Feel free to call him out, just not with some utter rubbish about brow-size you've gleaned from reading a JV interview and your 'expert' opinion based on looking at a couple of photos.

The UV treatment is pseudo-scientific rubbish, as was recently ruled. I believe Kittel when he says he believed it wasn't doping.

Call him out on the fact his climbing seems to have improved a lot while he is still as fast in the sprint, that's about the only indicator I can see. Of course, he's young and still getting used to long stage races so I see no problem with it, but it's about the only thing in his performances that could be questioned.
he won 2 jnr chronos. So good evidence he had a rouleur's talent. might become a cobbles rider if he slows lat 20s, 28/29, and wants to win a doyenne.

think a flat chrono course, he could take martin down. be close to fabian.

but heck, if he wins 25 times a year, and gets 2 million euro to win 25 times, he wont throw that in til his legs slow a tad.
 
Like I said, I'm happy with it and think it's perfectly plausible. It's his ability to get over the mountains that I was really referring to. There was a question mark over that after last year, especially looking at the parcours this year, but seems fine to me. He was ill last year as well I think.
 
May 22, 2013
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Indeed he was ill last year tdf.
kittel.
last bus + protected by teammates + experienced teammates and directors how to be not out of time.

Kittel is one of the best things for cycling at the moment. top cyclist who speaks anti-doping.
He even openly accused another rider of doping. Focus your anger on other riders/teams. kittel needs support from fans and other cyclist not anger from clynic cynics.
 
Gogojv said:
Indeed he was ill last year tdf.
kittel.
last bus + protected by teammates + experienced teammates and directors how to be not out of time.

Kittel is one of the best things for cycling at the moment. top cyclist who speaks anti-doping.
He even openly accused another rider of doping. Focus your anger on other riders/teams. kittel needs support from fans and other cyclist not anger from clynic cynics.
Lol. Hypocrits won't get my support.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Bernie's eyesore said:
Whatever criteria he was using, the fact is that he was spot on. Somehow I can't see him adopting the clinic's stance of throwing mud at everybody and hoping it sticks. Of course, instead of giving him some credit for getting it right, he just has to face accusations of racism and abuse for not aiming his comments at British riders.
Once again my question: Why not Froome?

Did he ever gave us a logical reason why he targeted a turkish rider but not a guy like Froome?

If he has some hidden info then share it with the public. But if he bases himself on the fact that it's a ridiculous performance and that he came out of nowhere, he's being a hypocrite.
 
May 22, 2013
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@laflorecita

So who gets your support??
JV?
Verhoeven?

Or do you support Vino or Valverde for the fight against doping?
 
Miburo said:
Once again my question: Why not Froome?

Did he ever gave us a logical reason why he targeted a turkish rider but not a guy like Froome?

If he has some hidden info then share it with the public. But if he bases himself on the fact that it's a ridiculous performance and that he came out of nowhere, he's being a hypocrite.
Perhaps, just perhaps, he doesn't think Froome is doping.

There were many reports about Sayer having needle marks on his arms.

This really is getting ridiculous.
 
LaFlorecita said:
Do I have to support anyone in the fight against doping?
Very good question that.

No, you don't. But that does mean you can never complain about anyone winning because of doping. I don't know if you do, that's just a general point.

It's a bit like not voting and then complaining about the government, just doesn't make sense.
 
Oct 17, 2012
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Miburo said:
Once again my question: Why not Froome?

Did he ever gave us a logical reason why he targeted a turkish rider but not a guy like Froome?

If he has some hidden info then share it with the public. But if he bases himself on the fact that it's a ridiculous performance and that he came out of nowhere, he's being a hypocrite.
Perhaps, and I know it's heresy around here, it's because he doesn't think or hasn't got any evidence (i.e. needle marks) that Froome is doping? After all there are second hand reports that the peleton don't believe he's doping. Compare that with the rumours in the Giro about Santambrogio.

To call out a rider before they've been popped takes guts and I would like to believe that if Kittel had rode the Giro he would have said something before he got popped, unlike all the others who came out after the fact to say something eg. Miller, JV etc.

Some people will only be happy if Kittel came out and said "everybody's doping, including me."
 

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