Kittel

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tobydawq said:
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/10/facebook-live-met-jurgen-vdb/

Jurgen van den Broeck questions Kittel's attitude/professionality and claims that Kittel drinks too much beer and wine. Hard to argue with that after another abysmal performance yesterday.

Will he ever come back to his former level? Somehow I doubt that very much.
It's probably true but doesn't it seem a bit arbitrary that we get Van Den Broeck's take on this matter? Unless he is a pundit on Belgian TV of course.

He hasn't been teammates with Kittel.
To be clear, Van den Broeck isn't "claiming" anything. He's simply saying what he has heard. "I have heard..." and "people are saying...".
 
It'd better be the booze otherwise he's complete dog manure for a less simple reason which makes it less likely for him to return to form.

But really sprinters turning bad are the saddest riders in the peloton. They lose their edge the quickest and they instantaneously lose any ability to be anything more than bunch fodder in the first hours of races
 
Sep 12, 2017
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Kittel has better hair line than me but if his form continues down I might be able to drop him on a 10 % climb.
No smoke without fire, he problaby doesn´t train enough. He weighs 80 kg and doesn´t even make it to the final 50 km in races nowadays. That is not a loss of 1 %.
 
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kittels-agent-blasts-rumours-about-sprinter/

So Kittel's agent says what an agent is supposed to say. But this one is really great:

“I believe that it is perfetly normal that one can't always win. Jürgen van den Broeck certainly should know that well enough himself."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/10/facebook-live-met-jurgen-vdb</span>/

Jurgen van den Broeck questions Kittel's attitude/professionality and claims that Kittel drinks too much beer and wine. Hard to argue with that after another abysmal performance yesterday.

Will he ever come back to his former level? Somehow I doubt that very much.
I question Jurgen van den Broeck attitude/professionality making this claim and slander Kittel like that.


Bye Bye Bicycle said:
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kittels-agent-blasts-rumours-about-sprinter</span>/

So Kittel's agent says what an agent is supposed to say. But this one is really great:

“I believe that it is perfetly normal that one can't always win. Jürgen van den Broeck certainly should know that well enough himself."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That is a great response from the agent :D


Even if Kittel is having a hard time. He just need help and support at this point to regain his confidence. Make it more about the overall performance in races, than simply counting the wins or lack of results. If he has not been taking care of himself he probably just need some time off and get to the bottom of why that is. If his heart is still in it or not. If he is motivated enough to do the work to get back to somewhat of his former level, or if that is impossible.
 
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Serpentin said:
Kittel has better hair line than me but if his form continues down I might be able to drop him on a 10 % climb.
No smoke without fire, he problaby doesn´t train enough. He weighs 80 kg and doesn´t even make it to the final 50 km in races nowadays. That is not a loss of 1 %.
You are raising an interesting question. How many of us amateur cyclists would be able to drop Kittel on a mountain? I'm sure there are people in here who could if they have enough climbing experience and weight less than him.

I'm fairly young (in the 25-30 age group), only weight 68 kg and have participated in a few amateur races and duathlons with decent results but I still dont think I have what it takes. It's really hard to tell how good you have to be to outclimb one of the heavy top sprinters.
 
Re: Re:

Velolover2 said:
Serpentin said:
Kittel has better hair line than me but if his form continues down I might be able to drop him on a 10 % climb.
No smoke without fire, he problaby doesn´t train enough. He weighs 80 kg and doesn´t even make it to the final 50 km in races nowadays. That is not a loss of 1 %.
You are raising an interesting question. How many of us amateur cyclists would be able to drop Kittel on a mountain? I'm sure there are people in here who could if they have enough climbing experience and weight less than him.

I'm fairly young (in the 25-30 age group), only weight 68 kg and have participated in a few amateur races and duathlons with decent results but I still dont think I have what it takes. It's really hard to tell how good you have to be to outclimb one of the heavy top sprinters.
I think you can just look at MTTs and see the bottom 30 riders for a decent indication. The worst ones will usually struggle with the time limit in an MTT.

https://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=33161

On this 25 minute MTT the worst were over 30% slower than Bernal, I guess it would correspond to something in the 4.5 W/kg range for a little over half an hour.

My guess is if you're a good amateur with the build of a climber you're pretty likely to be a better climber than many elite sprinters, but you're gonna lack the engine to be any use anywhere in a pro peloton.
 
Logic-is-your-friend said:
tobydawq said:
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/10/facebook-live-met-jurgen-vdb/

Jurgen van den Broeck questions Kittel's attitude/professionality and claims that Kittel drinks too much beer and wine. Hard to argue with that after another abysmal performance yesterday.

Will he ever come back to his former level? Somehow I doubt that very much.
It's probably true but doesn't it seem a bit arbitrary that we get Van Den Broeck's take on this matter? Unless he is a pundit on Belgian TV of course.

He hasn't been teammates with Kittel.
To be clear, Van den Broeck isn't "claiming" anything. He's simply saying what he has heard. "I have heard..." and "people are saying...".
By saying it he is claiming that what he heard is true because if he didn't think it was true he would't repeat it.
 
jmdirt said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
tobydawq said:
Bye Bye Bicycle said:
https://sporza.be/nl/2019/04/10/facebook-live-met-jurgen-vdb/

Jurgen van den Broeck questions Kittel's attitude/professionality and claims that Kittel drinks too much beer and wine. Hard to argue with that after another abysmal performance yesterday.

Will he ever come back to his former level? Somehow I doubt that very much.
It's probably true but doesn't it seem a bit arbitrary that we get Van Den Broeck's take on this matter? Unless he is a pundit on Belgian TV of course.

He hasn't been teammates with Kittel.
To be clear, Van den Broeck isn't "claiming" anything. He's simply saying what he has heard. "I have heard..." and "people are saying...".
By saying it he is claiming that what he heard is true because if he didn't think it was true he would't repeat it.
That’s not how it works. It’s fair to make a personal assumption that this is the case, but people can easily pass on information they have heard without knowing or even having an opinion on if it is true or not.
 
jmdirt said:
By saying it he is claiming that what he heard is true because if he didn't think it was true he would't repeat it.
He is saying what he heard, because it could be a possible explanation for what is happening with Kittel. That doesn't mean that he believes it's true. Simply that he believes it's possible.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Salvarani said:
Passing gossip around without actually knowing is stupid though.
I think he still got some connections to the peloton and it is refreshing that VdB has no problem saying these things.

Sadly, these days, most commentators are politicly correct cowards and you don't learn anything.

As always:

"where there's smoke there's fire"

 
Re: Re:

I think it is tasteless to say that about someone, even if it is true or not. And to say it when you dont know for sure is plain stupid. "or so I have heard..." is a cowardly thing to say.

If Kittel is being reckless and not taking care himself is one thing, but it could be something deeper behind it and then he should receive help and support. Not slander and people gossiping about it.

If his heart is not in it anymore and he dont really care about being a professional, then the team should intervene and have a conversation with him and lay down some rules if he gonna keep riding for the team or terminate his contract.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Salvarani said:
I think it is tasteless to say that about someone, even if it is true or not. And to say it when you dont know for sure is plain stupid. "or so I have heard..." is cowardingly to say.

If Kittel is being reckless and not taking care himself is one thing, but it could be something deeper behind it and then he should receive help and support. Not slander and people gossiping about it.

If his heart is in not it anymore and he dont really care about being a professional, then the team should intervene and have a conversation with him and lay down some rules if he gonna keep riding for the team or terminate his contract.
Here we go again. A forum member defining what is tasteless or politically correct to say on TV.

What an evil person VdB is for not sharing your views and opinions and not playing by those politically correct rules.

It is crazy how easy it is today for a TV commentator to hurt someone feelings just by sharing "rumors" :cool:

Now, can you imagine he would call him "overweight" or "out-of-shape"?
 
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Salvarani said:
Passing gossip around without actually knowing is stupid though.
You think JVDB called a journalist and said: "have i got news for you!"?

It is not gossip when it relates to his performance and current achievements. It's a rumor. It's not like he said he heard he was beating his wife or investing his money in the porn industry. What if he heard (without knowing) his form is off, because his mother died? Or because he has been ill? This is no different.
 
Re: Re:

Jancouver said:
Salvarani said:
I think it is tasteless to say that about someone, even if it is true or not. And to say it when you dont know for sure is plain stupid. "or so I have heard..." is cowardingly to say.

If Kittel is being reckless and not taking care himself is one thing, but it could be something deeper behind it and then he should receive help and support. Not slander and people gossiping about it.

If his heart is in not it anymore and he dont really care about being a professional, then the team should intervene and have a conversation with him and lay down some rules if he gonna keep riding for the team or terminate his contract.
Here we go again. A forum member defining what is tasteless or politically correct to say on TV.

What an evil person VdB is for not sharing your views and opinions and not playing by those politically correct rules.

It is crazy how easy it is today for a TV commentator to hurt someone feelings just by sharing "rumors" :cool:

Now, can you imagine he would call him "overweight" or "out-of-shape"?
Huh?

I said "I think...". So it is my view on it. I think relaying gossip in that sort of way is the bottom of the barrel type of stuff to do. I never said anything about political correctness. If you dont agree. Cool.

Dont ever quote me again with this patronizing tone. As a matter of fact... do me a favor and never quote me again.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Salvarani said:
Passing gossip around without actually knowing is stupid though.
You think JVDB called a journalist and said: "have i got news for you!"?

It is not gossip when it relates to his performance and current achievements. It's a rumor. It's not like he said he heard he was beating his wife or investing his money in the porn industry. What if he heard (without knowing) his form is off, because his mother died? Or because he has been ill? This is no different.
Okay, cool.

Still could have done it in a different way. "Yeah, heard he drinks". Okay? We have no idea about the truth to that.
 
Re: Re:

Velolover2 said:
Serpentin said:
Kittel has better hair line than me but if his form continues down I might be able to drop him on a 10 % climb.
No smoke without fire, he problaby doesn´t train enough. He weighs 80 kg and doesn´t even make it to the final 50 km in races nowadays. That is not a loss of 1 %.
You are raising an interesting question. How many of us amateur cyclists would be able to drop Kittel on a mountain? I'm sure there are people in here who could if they have enough climbing experience and weight less than him.

I'm fairly young (in the 25-30 age group), only weight 68 kg and have participated in a few amateur races and duathlons with decent results but I still dont think I have what it takes. It's really hard to tell how good you have to be to outclimb one of the heavy top sprinters.
When I was racing NRS in Australia Leigh Howard was able to stay with everyone but the best climbers at that level and he was only 19. These were guys racing for Conti teams.

I'll let you you work it out from there :D
 

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