Kreuziger going down?

[mrhender]

What I don't understand if Tinkov's team could spot (as he claims) one riders anomolies, then why couldnt they spot RK's anomolies

I see two most likely scenarios

1. Tinkov is talking bull
or
2. Having had their fingers burned by RK, they had a closer look at this rider Tinkov is making vlaims about.

According to articles/press releases i have read during the last weeks they did spot the anamolies and asked RK about them.. They found the anamolies not to be severe enough to discard him after hearing him on the matter.. Many here claim that the teams/riders/doctors are ahead of the testers and I tend to agree.. The only conclusion with this in mind is that they made a judgement of risk/reward and ended up believing in the latter..
Now Riis got burned with The Clenbuterol case... I'am sure he was very thorough in this very expensive signing.. Remember he was team owner at the time and would be paying the bill himself if not doing his vet properly...

All this doesn't exclude your no.1 option though.. Tinkov talks a lot of BS in general.........

 

[red_flanders]

Its usually a good starting point. Anyway if you're going to poo-poo official stories / news releases / etc. why bother following the sport (or any sport for that matter) or posting on here about it.

I'm guessing you've missed out on a couple decades worth of lies and corruption from the UCI.

Forgive us for being a bit jaded having followed the sport closely for quite some time. For me, the UCI has several years of proving they're not lying before I believe anything they're saying without some kind of independent verification.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The teams have access to the riders ADAMS. The result of the tests are there for them to see when it has been posted by the lab (possibly somewhat delayed so CADF can evaluate if there is need for targeted testing before the team/rider sees it).



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/does-colombias-anti-doping-stand-up-to-scrutiny

I am doubting Brailsford or anyone at Sky know what to look for - is my point. Zorzoli could have called him - which has more than one precedent - and Brailsford can then make up a story to justify his subsequent actions.

 

[Race Radio]

Still training

 

[sniper]

Still training

i think he's waiting to get ostracized.

 

[SeriousSam]

Sagan associating with a known doper like that is very eye brow raising. I'm now starting to think Sagan might have, at one point in his career, been tempted to use illegal performance enhancing drugs.

 

[peloton]

Sagan associating with a known doper like that is very eye brow raising. I'm now starting to think Sagan might have, at one point in his career, been tempted to use illegal performance enhancing drugs.

Froome trains with Levi. Cycling is a glass house.

 

[Netserk]

Sagan associating with a known doper like that is very eye brow raising. I'm now starting to think Sagan might have, at one point in his career, been tempted to use illegal performance enhancing drugs.

How is Kreuziger a 'known doper'?

 

[del1962]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/05/roman-kreuziger-fights-provisional-doping-ban

So thie provisional ban is going to CAS, so Roman can ride the Vuelta

“Mr Kreuziger strongly refutes this assumption,” the rider’s statement said, citing one blood profile result which “approached the limits ... caused by extreme dehydration after [an unsuccessful] mountain stage of the Giro d’Italia 2012.”

 

[thehog]

Cookson telling the world RK has positive values, then maintaining appropriate silence on other cases is proof positive the UCI is a reliable, transparent anti-doping actor. Except for that Armstrong character, oh and the Chicken, oh and every other time they've been shown to not sanction positives.

So, of course we're going to believe the half-broken story the UCI put out on Henao and trust Cookson outing RK, not following sanction protocol by passing the sanction onto RK's federation is somehow best for the sport.

It's a problem. And even if nothing had occurred the perception is Cookson is providing favours.

What concerns me most is the prejudicial comments by Cookson in relation to Kreuziger. If it was a court of law the case would need to be dismissed. It's doesn't bode well for doping independence if the president is stating outcomes of an athletes bio passport.

For me I look at how quick Cookson was to defend the Froome/TUE debacle knowing here wasn't committee in place and the manner which he has dealt with Kreuziger. And again Mencov. The inconsistency and the sheer lack of explantation show nothing towards transparency.

 

[thehog]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/05/roman-kreuziger-fights-provisional-doping-ban

So thie provisional ban is going to CAS, so Roman can ride the Vuelta

Bit late for this:

“The UCI will not comment on the various statements by the rider and his team as to the merits of the case and will present its position in the disciplinary proceedings,” it said.

 

[del1962]

Bit late for this:

Yeah for some reason I looked at the article and missed the date, old news, nvm

 

[del1962]

Got to laugh at the secret Pro - lets hedge our bets on Roman while sticking the boot into JTL

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

It’s been interesting watching the Roman Kreuziger case unfold. The whole thing stinks if you ask me. If he had done something wrong years ago, why didn’t they stop him then? Oleg Tinkov has a very good point — the UCI should have told Tinkoff-Saxo that Kreuziger was under suspicion before they signed him. It’s unbelievable. If Tinkov is paying Kreuziger all this money, the UCI should compensate him. I don’t know if Kreuziger has been doing anything dodgy or not, but I’ve seen many instances where the bio-passport system got it wrong.

One case that the biological passport did get right was Jonathan Tiernan-Locke. When he popped back into the scene I just took one look at the way he was riding and I knew 100% that he was loaded up to the eyeballs. He had basically been off the bike for five years and had a reputation for bouncing off the walls of the nightclubs during that time.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Got to laugh at the secret Pro - lets hedge our bets on Roman while sticking the boot into JTL

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

but I’ve seen many instances where the bio-passport system got it wrong.

By "got it wrong" you have to wonder if he means Never Tested Positive. If he means it the other way, well, not many sanctions to work with to "get wrong."

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

I just took one look at the way he was riding and I knew 100% that he was loaded up to the eyeballs

So why can't we judge riders this way?

 

[DirtyWorks]

So why can't we judge riders this way?

Some would have you believe that's not proof and therefore everyone is somehow forbidden from expressing an opinion.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I am not aware of anyone who has successfully defended a passport case once it has been officially opened.

Anyone know of one ?

 

[neineinei]

I am not aware of anyone who has successfully defended a passport case once it has been officially opened.

Anyone know of one ?

No athlete has been known to win a bio passport case after the case was brought to hearing. There has also been several cases taken to CAS, all lost as far as we know. But the Menchov case showed us that there might be cases we never hear about. There was no information about any case against him until he suddenly turned up banned in that pdf file of UCI.

Was Jesús Rosendo Prado ever sanctioned? He was namned by UCI in 2010, along with Pellizotti and Valjavec, "disciplinary procedures have been requested" said UCI then. This seems to have been only a couple of months after the riders got the first letter asking for explanations, so the cases were probably only at an early stage.

Press Release - Commencement of disciplinary proceedings on the basis of the biological passport

03.05.2010

After having informed all the parties concerned (riders, National Federations, teams, National Anti-Doping Organisations and the World Anti-Doping Agency), the International Cycling Union announces that disciplinary procedures have been requested against the following riders for apparent violation of the Anti-Doping Rules on the basis of the information provided by the blood profiles in their biological passports:

Franco Pellizotti (ITA)
Jesus Rosendo Prado (ESP)
Tadej Valjavec (SLO)

The UCI emphasises that these proceedings are being initiated as a result of the recommendations of the independent experts who were appointed when the biological passport programme was launched.

Since the introduction of the new programme, the regular analysis of individual profiles has not only led to proceedings of the type described above, but has also allowed increasingly effective targeting of riders for out-of-competition anti-doping controls.

Each rider mentioned above shall be accorded the right to the presumption of innocence until a final decision has been made on this matter. Under the World Anti-Doping Code and the UCI Anti-Doping Rules, the UCI is unable to provide any additional information at this time.

Â

UCI Press Services

Maybe the haemorrhoids explanation worked?

In the statement, the Spanish Pro Continental team say Rosendo received a communiqué from the UCI on March 1 stating that they had detected an increase in his oxygen transference based on blood test results obtained between May 19, 2008, and September 27, 2009.

The statement says: "Between these dates the only blood test result that we can define as abnormal was the one taken on April 20, 2009, which showed haemoglobin and haematocrit levels were very low, suggesting anaemia as a result of bleeding that the rider had suffered on April 8, 2009, due to haemorrhoids (the UCI has a medical note confirming this bleeding). For this reason, the level of reticulocytes increased. As well as the medical note already mentioned, the rider also presented statements from haematology specialists who confirmed their confidence in the normality of this clinical data."

 

[roundabout]

Rosendo's explanation was accepted and I think the UCI did not pursue the case further. I remember him riding the Vuelta that year

Edit: doh, not 2010, the 2011 Vuelta

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=7062&year=0&all=1&current=0

 

[roundabout]

Wait, does Kreuziger have the same "expert" as JTL? Kinda hilarious that a guy who raced one year on a 400k contract and a millionaire would use the same people.

Although I suppose Zorzoli's phone book is only so many people long.

 

[Dr. Juice]

Got to laugh at the secret Pro - lets hedge our bets on Roman while sticking the boot into JTL

Well, it should be either Simon Gerrans or Darel Impey. Probably Gerrans. Someone made a list of which riders could be the secret pro by analyzing every single statement and every single race the secret pro attended. In the end there were 11 names of riders who all participated in these races. Only Gerrans and Impey are native speakers.

 

[del1962]

Well, it should be either Simon Gerrans or Darel Impey. Probably Gerrans. Someone made a list of which riders could be the secret pro by analyzing every single statement and every single race the secret pro attended. In the end there were 11 names of riders who all participated in these races. Only Gerrans and Impey are native speakers.

No comments on Darren Impey or Diego Ulissi's failed tests though

 

[Almeisan]

But Impey tested positive, lol.

If he was the 'Secret Pro', surely he was dumped when he tested positive for a known masking agent that is now only has veterinary applications.
Unless he took an antibiotics shot intended for his dog, something one can almost expect some cyclist somewhere to do, he took a move out of some athlete doping masking playbook.

 

[Dr. Juice]

That's why I believe the Secret Pro is Simon Gerrans.

 

[DirtyWorks]

No athlete has been known to win a bio passport case after the case was brought to hearing. There has also been several cases taken to CAS, all lost as far as we know. But the Menchov case showed us that there might be cases we never hear about. There was no information about any case against him until he suddenly turned up banned in that pdf file of UCI.

To this point, this is actually more common than not. What happens is the process all the way up to accepting the sanction is non-public, then announced. Both sides have some officious quote released with the ban and the story ends.

Menchov's case is complicated by the fact cyrillic/"Russian" readers aren't posting to this forum and RusVelo's press releases are very short on everything.

Was Jesús Rosendo Prado ever sanctioned? He was namned by UCI in 2010, along with Pellizotti and Valjavec, "disciplinary procedures have been requested" said UCI then. This seems to have been only a couple of months after the riders got the first letter asking for explanations, so the cases were probably only at an early stage.



Maybe the haemorrhoids explanation worked?

Interesting to see the UCI backed down and Rodendo rode the Vuelta the next year. Not sure what it got him as his results aren't great. Maybe I'm missing something.