Kreuziger going down?

[thehog]

Per JTL;

Considering that a team suspension period holds no bearing on your actual suspension, if found guilty, I can see what Kreuz wants to race. You could actually end up getting 3 years.

 

[Jancouver]

Kreuziger spent today 6 hours in front of the Czech Olympic committee and the verdict should be out by Sept 22.

Most interesting part of the article is the comment from his lawyer saying that the three person UCI team had no understanding of some of "basic circumstances" which are important when reviewing blood profile and they also didnt review a report from one "expert" provided by Kreuziger.

https://translate.google.com/transl...0911_174438_cyklistika_fil&edit-text=&act=url

 

[DirtyWorks]

Kreuziger spent today 6 hours in front of the Czech Olympic committee and the verdict should be out by Sept 22.

Most interesting part of the article is the comment from his lawyer saying that the three person UCI team had no understanding of some of "basic circumstances" which are important when reviewing blood profile and they also didnt review a report from one "expert" provided by Kreuziger.

https://translate.google.com/transl...0911_174438_cyklistika_fil&edit-text=&act=url

Remember that the arbitration panel that heard JTL's case went to some effort to insult JTL's expert in the decision document. So, the panel may have simply dismissed RK's expert.

Remember, this is arbitration. Typically the arbitration panel is made up of sports lawyers who work for IOC sports federations while representing athletes in other ways, even in front of an arbitration panel.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Remember that the arbitration panel that heard JTL's case went to some effort to insult JTL's expert in the decision document. So, the panel may have simply dismissed RK's expert.

Remember, this is arbitration. Typically the arbitration panel is made up of sports lawyers who work for IOC sports federations while representing athletes in other ways, even in front of an arbitration panel.

When taken to a real court a lot of those decisions from CAS and other good willing amateurs would be set a side in a flash.

 

[Race Radio]

When taken to a real court a lot of those decisions from CAS and other good willing amateurs would be set a side in a flash.

Arb panels are a real. They are used to settles thousands of disputes every days. Cases worth millions of $$$ are done daily and the result is consistently held up.

 

[Race Radio]

Kreuziger spent today 6 hours in front of the Czech Olympic committee and the verdict should be out by Sept 22.

Most interesting part of the article is the comment from his lawyer saying that the three person UCI team had no understanding of some of "basic circumstances" which are important when reviewing blood profile and they also didnt review a report from one "expert" provided by Kreuziger.

https://translate.google.com/transl...0911_174438_cyklistika_fil&edit-text=&act=url

If that is his defense he is done.

The thresholds for the passport are so high that by the time it gets past the software, the review panel, the 2nd review panel, the riders experts, the official filing......it is obvious.

Many riders have used similar nonsense to explain why they were the one in a 100,000,000,000 but they always fail.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

If that is his defense he is done.

The thresholds for the passport are so high that by the time it gets past the software, the review panel, the 2nd review panel, the riders experts, the official filing......it is obvious.

Many riders have used similar nonsense to explain why they were the one in a 100,000,000,000 but they always fail.

So, was he clean at Astana and dirty on the other teams, or the reverse?

 

[Jancouver]

If that is his defense he is done.

The thresholds for the passport are so high that by the time it gets past the software, the review panel, the 2nd review panel, the riders experts, the official filing......it is obvious.

Many riders have used similar nonsense to explain why they were the one in a 100,000,000,000 but they always fail.

He is done regardless of the Czech committee decision. UCI will take him to CAS and there is yet to be one blood passport case decision in favor of rider.

 

[Jancouver]

So, was he clean at Astana and dirty on the other teams, or the reverse?

He was never clean. He comes from the old school as his daddy was an old school pro....and his long time trainer Dr. Ferrari is not exactly clean either.

 

[Race Radio]

So, was he clean at Astana and dirty on the other teams, or the reverse?

I doubt he has ever been clear.

 

[DirtyWorks]

When taken to a real court a lot of those decisions from CAS and other good willing amateurs would be set a side in a flash.

What real court? There's no trip through the judicial system for anyone.

And then there's the matter of jurisdiction. A Czech citizen dopes in Spain for a race in Italy run by a French company with rules from a Swiss organization. Where is the case supposed to take place?

 

[BYOP88]

He is done regardless of the Czech committee decision. UCI will take him to CAS and there is yet to be one blood passport case decision in favor of rider.

I love the UCI and their policy of only taking certain riders to CAS.

 

[Race Radio]

What real court? There's no trip through the judicial system for anyone.

And then there's the matter of jurisdiction. A Czech citizen dopes in Spain for a race in Italy run by a French company with rules from a Swiss organization. Where is the case supposed to take place?

Dopers must get the same list of talking points. "Witch hunt" "Kangaroo court" "Due Process". They are hoping that it will make it easier for the clueless public to buy their silly excuse.

 

[Jancouver]

I love the UCI and their policy of only taking certain riders to CAS.

I guess UCI got PI$$ED when the Czech Cycling Federation refused to take disciplinary action after he admitted (he had no other choice) working with Ferrari. That was in May 2013.

I believe UCI would not proceed with his blood passport case if he got suspended, lets say for 6 months for working with Ferrari. After all, Ferrari was banned by UCI in 2002 so no wonder they got PI$$ED the Czech Cycling took no action.

From what I have seen, Roman is very primitive guy and he just doesnt get it. Even worse is that all the Czech media and fans are behind him, and clueless, and I dont believe there will be any punishment from the Czechs. Therefore there goes UCI and CAS.

 

[Race Radio]

I guess UCI got PI$$ED when the Czech Cycling Federation refused to take disciplinary action after he admitted (he had no other choice) working with Ferrari. That was in May 2013.

I believe UCI would not proceed with his blood passport case if he got suspended, lets say for 6 months for working with Ferrari. After all, Ferrari was banned by UCI in 2002 so no wonder they got PI$$ED the Czech Cycling took no action.

From what I have seen, Roman is very primitive guy and he just doesnt get it. Even worse is that all the Czech media and fans are behind him, and clueless, and I dont believe there will be any punishment from the Czechs. Therefore there goes UCI and CAS.

I kinda doubt BioPassport case is in response to the Czech's not doing anything about Ferrari. By the time he got the letter his case had been working for months. The computer program, ABP Panel, another software program, and then the letter goes out.

Unfortunately the ban of Ferrari was a myth. Until USADA he was never actually banned by the UCI or CONI. Yes, the media reported it but it was not official. This is why the cases against Pozzato, Scarponi, and Visconti fell apart. Originally CONI was asking for a 1 year ban but when Pozzato's legal showed that Ferrari was not actually formally banned, and did not show up on any of CONI's lists as being banned, CONI settled for 3 months....off season.

I can understand why the Czech's did not want to go down the same road as it was pretty embarrassing for CONI

 

[peloton]

Dopers must get the same list of talking points. "Witch hunt" "Kangaroo court" "Due Process". They are hoping that it will make it easier for the clueless public to buy their silly excuse.

I reckon it's obvious if the Czech OC clears him, UCI has to take it to CAS?

How long time do UCI/WADA have to decide if appeal to CAS? Iirc, 30 days?

 

[Race Radio]

I reckon it's obvious if the Czech OC clears him, UCI has to take it to CAS?

How long time do UCI/WADA have to decide if appeal to CAS? Iirc, 30 days?

I think the case is being heard by a 3 member Arb panel correct? If that is the case, and the UCI loses (Which I don't see happening) then they would have 21 days to appeal.

The UCI would appeal if they think they got a bad hand on the arbs, they were not allowed to introduce evidence, or just that they need to insure the validity of the ABP. I have not seen any of this yet.

 

[peloton]

I think the case is being heard by a 3 member Arb panel correct? If that is the case, and the UCI loses (Which I don't see happening) then they would have 21 days to appeal.

The UCI would appeal if they think they got a bad hand on the arbs, they were not allowed to introduce evidence, or just that they need to insure the validity of the ABP. I have not seen any of this yet.

Thanks, that's my understanding too about the panel.

We'll see Kreuziger back in couple of years, wonder how, if at all, this will affect Astana?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Where is the case supposed to take place?

In Switserland of course. When you read the CAS verdict on Contador you will see what I mean. Not even mentioning the whole six months ban this blooddoper got.

 

[neineinei]

What real court? There's no trip through the judicial system for anyone.

And then there's the matter of jurisdiction. A Czech citizen dopes in Spain for a race in Italy run by a French company with rules from a Swiss organization. Where is the case supposed to take place?

CAS rulings can be appealed to the Swiss Federal Tribunal. Patrick Sinkewitz did so this year.

In accordance with article 190 of the Swiss Federal Act on Private International Law (PIL), a party may file an appeal against a decision of the CAS with the Swiss federal Tribunal if at least one party's domicile is not in Switzerland (international arbitration), unless, in cases where no party is domiciled in Switzerland, the parties have excluded any recourse to the courts. In case of domestic arbitration, an appeal with the Swiss Federal Tribunal would be possible would be possible pursuant to the Swiss Civil Procedure Act. Article 190 of the PIL, however, allows an appeal for some limited grounds only, including lack of jurisdiction, violation of the right to be heard, violation of the principle of equal treatment or violation of public policy. In the matter at hand, the athlete argued that the CAS had not been competent and, further, that the CAS had violated the principle of equal treatment, the right to be heard and the public policy. The Swiss Federal Tribunal, however, came to the conclusion that the appeal was unfounded and that the CAS had not violated any of the rights invoked by the athlete. It, thus, dismissed the appeal and upheld the CAS' decision. As a result, the eight years ineligibility sanction imposed on the cyclist is now final and binding.

http://sportslawcircle.com/sports-l...-banning-patrick-sinkewitz-for-doping-offense

Valverde also appealed to the Swiss Federal Tribunal.

And at the end of the road there is the European Court of Human Rights

 

[Kokoso]

I guess UCI got PI$$ED when the Czech Cycling Federation refused to take disciplinary action after he admitted (he had no other choice) working with Ferrari. That was in May 2013.

I believe UCI would not proceed with his blood passport case if he got suspended, lets say for 6 months for working with Ferrari. After all, Ferrari was banned by UCI in 2002 so no wonder they got PI$$ED the Czech Cycling took no action.

From what I have seen, Roman is very primitive guy and he just doesnt get it. Even worse is that all the Czech media and fans are behind him, and clueless, and I dont believe there will be any punishment from the Czechs. Therefore there goes UCI and CAS.

Reading you one would feel like you know it all. But because I know how it's with the Czech fans I can safely say that you are talking BS. There are lot of Czech fans who believe that Kreuziger doped. Lot of fans don't like Kreuziger at all. And certainly not all media are behind him. That's such BS from you. And while Kreuziger may or may not be bright, he isn't very primitive. Looks like you could be the one who is clueless.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Reading you one would feel like you know it all. But because I know how it's with the Czech fans I can safely say that you are talking BS. There are lot of Czech fans who believe that Kreuziger doped. Lot of fans don't like Kreuziger at all. And certainly not all media are behind him. That's such BS from you. And while Kreuziger may or may not be bright, he isn't very primitive. Looks like you could be the one who is clueless.

Thanks for posting this. It's very important information.

While I understand that Czech fans may have opinions, like Armstrong, it matters little. The Czech cycling federation will do what it wants, making the rules fit as needed, as will the UCI.

As this case has shown, WADA standards mean nothing.

Could RK find *some way* to take it all the way through Swiss courts? Yes. Does he have the money and time to do it? The laws do not favor the athlete.

We've seen this kind of situation before and the UCI always wins. Let's argue for a minute RK slips through a loophole. The UCI can still put him on the WT blacklist.

 

[Bernhard]

RK cleared by Czech officials

 

[TomasC]

As expected. Next stop CAS. So will he race Lombardia?

 

[TomasC]

Official press release here in Czech: http://www.olympic.cz/clanek/1592--...an-kreuziger-antidopingova-pravidla-neporusil
Not much there, just stating that the file does not show clear violation of antidoping rules.