La Vuelta: Where Miracles Really Do Occur

[Merckx index]

Mosquera
Cobo/Froome
Horner
Dumoulin

Oh, and let’s not forget the guy who came in 4th in 1998, the first ever sign he could compete in a GT.

And all those riders who suddenly became ITT specialists at the Vuelta? It didn’t begin this year.

 

[BigMac]

Pftt, Dumoulin is just a downgraded version of Gustavo Veloso.

Seriosuly now. There's a pattern for sure.

 

[luckyboy]

Don't forget the one-year wonders of the early 2000s like Nozal, Perez, Gonzalez etc

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Pecharroman would have smashed the Vuelta in his heyday.

 

[the delgados]

Don't forget
Levi Leipheimer, 2001.
He kicked ass in a late-race ITT, beating team leader Roberto Heras and ended up finishing 3rd overall in GC.
I'm pretty sure that was his break out performance.

 

["Jeff"]

I dont know how many times I need to repeat this. This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Roberto Córdoba
José Luis Navarro
Guido Van Calster
Jørgen Marcussen
Ivan Ivanov
Óscar de Jesús Vargas
Yvon Madiot
Edgar Corredor
Marc Durant
Antonio Coll Pantanilla
Omar Hernández
Pedro Saúl Morales
Giuseppe Perletto
Jean-Claude Bagot
Santiago Lazcano
Régis Clère
Francisco Rodríguez
Gary Clively
José Recio
José Luis Viejo
Luc Suykerbuyk
José Martins
Pierre Raymond Villemiane

Etc etc and etcetera.

Are these known GC riders ? No. Yet they all finished top10 in the Vuelta, some even podium.

Why cant people give this a rest.

 

[frenchfry]

Don't forget Jalabert in 1995.

 

[mrhender]

Okay, take it easy guys and refrain from the personal comments.

Thank you.

 

[hrotha]

[quote=""Jeff"":29alk0pn]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.
[/quote]
Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.

 

[jsem94]

Not one mention of Peter Velits either.

On a side note, what has he been up to lately? Injured?

 

["Jeff"]

[quote=""Jeff"":3ca46w3u]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.[/quote]The undertone is that they are doped. I might be accused of being a homer again, but its a shame that Dumoulin is listed with the other three names. Than he has an agenda. He could easily list a truckload of other riders, but no, two highly suspisious winners and a known doper.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

[quote=""Jeff"":1vcwj1yv]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.[/quote]The undertone is that they are doped. I might be accused of being a homer again, but its a shame that Dumoulin is listed with the other three names. Than you have an agenda.[/quote]

Froome and Horner were never tested positive. Are you suggesting they are dopers?

That is incredibly hypocritical.

 

["Jeff"]

[quote=""Jeff"":3iof4gvz]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.

The undertone is that they are doped. I might be accused of being a homer again, but its a shame that Dumoulin is listed with the other three names. Than you have an agenda.[/quote]

Froome and Horner were never tested positive. Are you suggesting they are dopers?

That is incredibly hypocritical.[/quote]I am talking about Mosquera, Cobo and Horner.

 

[classicomano]

I remember once looking at the results of the 1996 Vuelta, the last GT where you could shoot up to high heaven before the party poopers at UCI put in the 50% rule. In 4th and 5th place came Roberti Pistore and Stefano Faustini. Who? Yeah exactly, never heard from again after that race.

Must be something in the air over there.

 

[the sceptic]

Horner is cleans, he even released his blood values to prove it

 

["Jeff"]

Re:

I remember once looking at the results of the 1996 Vuelta, the last GT where you could shoot up to high heaven before the party poopers at UCI put in the 50% rule. In 4th and 5th place came Roberti Pistore and Stefano Faustini. Who? Yeah exactly, never heard from again after that race.

Must be something in the air over there.

Exactly, those two as well. Problem is, its useless to come up with examples from the 90s because than you know for certain doping is a factor.

Obviously there has always been doping in every decade, but you have to rely on something otherwise we can better quit.

The Vuelta is just a very strange race. People can talk about competition, now again, but Hrotha is plain right. Competition is not only those who are participating.

 

[PremierAndrew]

[quote=""Jeff"":2xbor31b]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.

The undertone is that they are doped. I might be accused of being a homer again, but its a shame that Dumoulin is listed with the other three names. Than you have an agenda.[/quote]

Froome and Horner were never tested positive. Are you suggesting they are dopers?

That is incredibly hypocritical.[/quote]I am talking about Mosquera, Cobo and Horner.[/quote]

Cobo and Horner never tested positive. You clearly have an agenda against them

 

[Cance > TheRest]

[quote=""Jeff"":1abptmyq]This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Yeah, that kinda is the whole premise of this thread.

The undertone is that they are doped. I might be accused of being a homer again, but its a shame that Dumoulin is listed with the other three names. Than you have an agenda.[/quote]

Froome and Horner were never tested positive. Are you suggesting they are dopers?

That is incredibly hypocritical.[/quote]I am talking about Mosquera, Cobo and Horner.[/quote]
While certainly surprising Vuelta-winners, both Horner and Cobo were proven climbers a long time before their Vuelta wins. Their performances were a lot less surprising than what Dumoulin has managed this year. I cannot see why Dumoulin's miracle performance doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[May0maniac]

The Vuelta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESi7uGMNaMs

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":3f3y80cq]I dont know how many times I need to repeat this. This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

Roberto Córdoba
José Luis Navarro
Guido Van Calster
Jørgen Marcussen
Ivan Ivanov
Óscar de Jesús Vargas
Yvon Madiot
Edgar Corredor
Marc Durant
Antonio Coll Pantanilla
Omar Hernández
Pedro Saúl Morales
Giuseppe Perletto
Jean-Claude Bagot
Santiago Lazcano
Régis Clère
Francisco Rodríguez
Gary Clively
José Recio
José Luis Viejo
Luc Suykerbuyk
José Martins
Pierre Raymond Villemiane

Etc etc and etcetera.

Are these known GC riders ? No. Yet they all finished top10 in the Vuelta, some even podium.

Why cant people give this a rest.[/quote]

Why accept doping and cheating?

It is not mandatory for fans to read the clinic never mind post.

I will give it a rest when i feel that testing is fully funded, fully independent, effective and the omerta is dead.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Pecharroman would have smashed the Vuelta in his heyday.

don't think there is a rider that put a big smile on my face as JA Pecharroman. Best robery ever.

Whenever Lefevre is even only asociated with an Iberian rider his name comes up. Love it!

 

[hrotha]

I forgive Pecharromán because he ripped Lefevere off.

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":29ssxts0]I dont know how many times I need to repeat this. This is always been the case in the Vuelta. ALWAYS.

[/quote]

Your point seems to be that there have been many surprising performances in the Vuelta, most of them by non-dopers, therefore it’s unfair to list Dumoulin with surprising performances by riders who have either tested positive or are suspicious. The problem I have with this is a) most of these surprising performances you list are not nearly as hard to understand as Dumoulin’s (he hasn’t had lots of previous experience in GTs, and he’s not just going to finish in the top 10--which often happens through luck, getting in a break--but almost certainly in the top 2); and b) every single one of the riders you listed competed before the blood doping era. GTs were raced very differently then.

I’ve listed Dumoulin’s performance with other surprising ones in the Vuelta during the same era. If you think you can find other surprising performances in this era by riders who are not suspicious, please list them.

 

[Savant12]

The meat in Spain does possess exceptional qualities, or so claimed.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I remember once looking at the results of the 1996 Vuelta, the last GT where you could shoot up to high heaven before the party poopers at UCI put in the 50% rule. In 4th and 5th place came Roberti Pistore and Stefano Faustini. Who? Yeah exactly, never heard from again after that race.

Must be something in the air over there.

Exactly, those two as well. Problem is, its useless to come up with examples from the 90s because than you know for certain doping is a factor.

Obviously there has always been doping in every decade, but you have to rely on something otherwise we can better quit.

The Vuelta is just a very strange race. People can talk about competition, now again, but Hrotha is plain right. Competition is not only those who are participating.[/quote]

How do you know for certain everyone in the 1990's was doping. Why couldn't they just "train hard" like Schippers, Bolt, Wiggins etc do and still beat all the doped times.