Lance Armstrong's blood values from the Tour de France looks suspicious and indicate

[Mellow Velo]

Yes....at lot of the main Grand Tour contenders have gained their reputations by riding inconsistently.
Grand Tour riders, by nature have to ride consistently or not be contenders.

I also concur with Cerebus, that LA is a great athlete.

However, If there wasn't a "source", then there would be this debate.
The material source suggests an anomaly, which you tell everybody is down to his superior recovery skills.
THAT is pure speculation.
It can be justifiably argued, that the most likely scenario is blood doping.
There is a medically qualified source making this observation.

You choose to ignore this, as is your right.

You cannot tell others they are wrong, without bringing a qualified medical source to the debate, to back up your speculation.

I will await this counter source, with baited breath, but not until 5am.

Maybe you are suffering from sleep depravation?

 

[Cobblestones]

Yes....at lot of the main Grand Tour contenders have gained their reputations by riding inconsistently.
Grand Tour riders, by nature have to ride consistently or not be contenders.

I also concur with Cerebus, that LA is a great athlete.

However, If there wasn't a "source", then there would be this debate.
The material source suggests an anomaly, which you tell everybody is down to his superior recovery skills.
THAT is pure speculation.
It can be justifiably argued, that the most likely scenario is blood doping.
There is a medically qualified source making this observation.

You choose to ignore this, as is your right.

You cannot tell others they are wrong, without bringing a qualified medical source to the debate, to back up your speculation.

I will await this counter source, with baited breath, but not until 5am.

Maybe you are suffering from sleep depravation?

So the newest spin is that a spike in Hb is due to mad recovery skillz?

Dude should grab a dictionary:

recovery: a return to a normal condition
spike: a pointed portion of a continuous curve or graph, usually rising above the adjacent portion

How do those two fit together again? Oh yeah, they dont. Dude should just let it go.

 

[Race Radio]

Yes....at lot of the main Grand Tour contenders have gained their reputations by riding inconsistently.
Grand Tour riders, by nature have to ride consistently or not be contenders.

I also concur with Cerebus, that LA is a great athlete.

However, If there wasn't a "source", then there would be this debate.
The material source suggests an anomaly, which you tell everybody is down to his superior recovery skills.
THAT is pure speculation.
It can be justifiably argued, that the most likely scenario is blood doping.
There is a medically qualified source making this observation.

You choose to ignore this, as is your right.

You cannot tell others they are wrong, without bringing a qualified medical source to the debate, to back up your speculation.

I will await this counter source, with baited breath, but not until 5am.

Maybe you are suffering from sleep depravation?

What is this consistency you write of?

When observers point out that dopers are inconsistent this is because they seldom perform in more then one or two periods of the year. Armstrong is famous for having his entire season being focused around one race and doing next to nothing the rest of the time.

Besides, one of the most consistent riders in modern racing, Erik Zabel, was a doper.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It's impossible to get fitter from doing a moutain stage at altitude a few days before?

Sure after a recovery period.

 

[Bala Verde]

So the mt ventoux was basically an altitude training?

Dang! Verbruggen read this: not doping makes riders faster but more difficult mt stages.

Contrary to popular belief, making GTs 'easier' would be somewhat detrimental to avg speeds. That's got to be an argument uci will be welcoming with open arms.

 

[Cobblestones]

So the mt ventoux was basically an altitude training?

Dang! Verbruggen read this: not doping makes riders faster but more difficult mt stages.

Contrary to popular belief, making GTs 'easier' would be somewhat detrimental to avg speeds. That's got to be an argument uci will be welcoming with open arms.

So, dude claims now that mountain stages are really altitude training? I think we can stop here. Reductio ad absurdum fully achieved.

Maybe we should have a Tour de Himalaya which goes on for 20 weeks. Hey, it's all altitude training, so it's only getting easier along the way. It's really nothing compared to the poor sods which stay in the lowlands and have to ride Belgian kermes crits. Now those are the really though boys.

 

[Mellow Velo]

What is this consistency you write of?

When observers point out that dopers are inconsistent this is because they seldom perform in more then one or two periods of the year. Armstrong is famous for having his entire season being focused around one race and doing next to nothing the rest of the time.

Besides, one of the most consistent riders in modern racing, Erik Zabel, was a doper.

Both you and Cobblestone have missed the point. I am talking about riding consistently, over the course of a 3 week race.

Of course, most GT contenders only perform, once or twice, during a season, for the exact same reason most of us agree upon.
No dispute there, whatsoever.

What is this consistency you write of?
Besides, one of the most consistent riders in modern racing, Erik Zabel, was a doper.

Exactly my point that consistency/inconsitency doesn't necessarily equate to doping or vis versa.

However, If there wasn't a "source", then there wouldn't be this debate.
The material source suggests an anomaly, which you tell everybody is down to his superior recovery skills.
THAT is pure speculation.

Cobblestones: I am not talking about the spike being due to recovery, but "topping up". I don't know how you reached that conclusion, unless you only read one post and that one, incorrectly.
Recovery was BPC's excuse, from last night.

 

[Cobblestones]

Cobblestones: I am not talking about the spike being due to recovery, but "topping up". I don't know how you reached that conclusion, unless you only read one post and that one, incorrectly.
Recovery was BPC's excuse, from last night.

I realize I have to change my approach. You see, yesterday I put a couple of dudes on ignore, so I don't read their posts any more. All I get now is second hand information on their lunatic claims by sane posters like you. So when I respond to their garbage, I quote a post like yours because that's all I have to go with. I see now that's not a good practice, because you assume I'm talking about you, when I'm really talking about the dude I should ignore. Sorry about that. I'll find a better way of doing things. I'm new to the whole ignore thing and obviously I have to work out some kinks.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Of course, the ignore button.
Confusion in our ranks? Maybe it was BPC's cunning plan all along......

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Thirdly, I've seen people often say that inconsistency is a great sign of doping - not consistency - so there are obviously differing views about that here at the clinic. The view seems to change depending on the rider.QUOTE]

Hi BPC,

In my view, consistency can sometimes be inconsistent with expectations. Kohl and Di Luca's performances in the 2008 TdF and 2009 Giro are prime examples of this.

Armstrong's blood values remained relatively constant when they were expected to drop. That has caused me to raise my suspiscious eyebrow.

 

[Mellow Velo]

BPC introduces himself to himself.
Still, if nobody out there is listening.
Yes, of course. Di Luca finishing 2nd in the Giro is very inconsistent with winning it, in 2007 and finishing 4th in 2005.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

BPC introduces himself to himself.
Still, if nobody out there is listening.
Yes, of course. Di Luca finishing 2nd in the Giro is very inconsistent with winning it, in 2007 and finishing 4th in 2005.

Nope, I'm not BPC. I was just trying to be friendly, as I'm fairly new to posting.

Di Luca's inconsistancy (in my view) was that he attacked, attacked, and attacked and never seemed to run out of gas. The old notion that you only have so many matches didn't seem to apply to him. That's all I was trying to get at.

 

[dopingectomy]

and nobody did notice that his reticulocytes decreased by a factor of two in less than two months to be at the very low side of the normal range just during the Tour.

Guess the effect of a blood transfusion on the reticulocytes.

 

[Cobblestones]

and nobody did notice that his reticulocytes decreased by a factor of two in less than two months to be at the very low side of the normal range just during the Tour.

Guess the effect of a blood transfusion on the reticulocytes.

Oh we notice. Above 1 from October to April, below 1 from then on. Or in other words: above 1 when you need to fill bags, below one when you use'em.

 

[Ferminal]

Just for fun, here's approximately where the collarbone injury happened.

I'll be fascinated to hear how this supports your position.

I lol'ed

 

[Ex-trackie]

Rasmus Damsgaard

Imagine the conflict for Rasmus Damsgaard. He is co-author on the scientific papers along with Jacob Mørkebjerg and is fully aware of the validity of Mørkebjerg's suspicions.

However, he also happens to be on Astana's payroll, and when pressed by Astana to respond the the allegations that LA was potentially blood doping during the tour, he coughed up the following:

http://www.velonews.com/article/97468/damsgaard-responds-to-speculation-about-lance-armstrong-s

I guess Damsgaard figured out which side his bread is buttered on, and his scientific credibility just went up in a puff of smoke.

 

[Anonymous]

Imagine the conflict for Rasmus Damsgaard. He is co-author on the scientific papers along with Jacob Mørkebjerg and is fully aware of the validity of Mørkebjerg's suspicions.

However, he also happens to be on Astana's payroll, and when pressed by Astana to respond the the allegations that LA was potentially blood doping during the tour, he coughed up the following:

http://www.velonews.com/article/97468/damsgaard-responds-to-speculation-about-lance-armstrong-s

I guess Damsgaard figured out which side his bread is buttered on, and his scientific credibility just went up in a puff of smoke.

I hadn't seen that, thanks for posting. He is doing what all those in the Armstrong camp do. I guess we can call this one the Diarrhea Defense.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Not the Schumacher Shits?
I had noted that he was basically saying that what he'd been doing at Astana and Saxo, was a waste of time and that so is the passport.
"No scientific test...."
Nice to have got paid for taking down numbers, but not much else.

 

[SpeedWay]

Seriously, why another topic? This is being discussed to death on the proper one. It has a trillion pages on this subject alone already.

Sorry for the sharp reply, I'm a little bit tired of the subject already

For the same reason they run back to back to back to back reruns of Dog the Bounty Hunter on American TV. There is a small sample size of mentally deficient people that can't get enough of this stuff(ie - jacking off to the same thing over and over and over again). By the way, you being tired of the subject means there is hope for you, irregardless of your spirited contribution to this topic in earlier posts.

 

[Anonymous]

For the same reason they run back to back to back to back reruns of Dog the Bounty Hunter on American TV. There is a small sample size of mentally deficient people that can't get enough of this stuff(ie - jacking off to the same thing over and over and over again). By the way, you being tired of the subject means there is hope for you, irregardless of your spirited contribution to this topic in earlier posts.

Not a word.

 

[issoisso]

I
I guess Damsgaard figured out which side his bread is buttered on, and his scientific credibility just went up in a puff of smoke.

It went away a long, long time ago. Specifically when he started accepting gifts from Saxo Bank. More so at last year's tour when he was pressed about Riccò's positive and said "yeah, we've been testing riders for CERA for a long time", to which his associate responded with words to the effect of "that's an outright lie".

 

[Escarabajo]

Imagine the conflict for Rasmus Damsgaard. He is co-author on the scientific papers along with Jacob Mørkebjerg and is fully aware of the validity of Mørkebjerg's suspicions.

However, he also happens to be on Astana's payroll, and when pressed by Astana to respond the the allegations that LA was potentially blood doping during the tour, he coughed up the following:

http://www.velonews.com/article/97468/damsgaard-responds-to-speculation-about-lance-armstrong-s

I guess Damsgaard figured out which side his bread is buttered on, and his scientific credibility just went up in a puff of smoke.

Thanks for the info.

I guess the american saying that comes to mind is: "Never Bite The Hand That Feeds You".

 

[Berzin]

Secondly, and for those who say his doping recovery programme is second to none, could that really be the case from day one of his tours? Neither he or his team were even rich at the beginning. There is obviously much more to his success than that.

What you just wrote is a straight-up lie.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

When Armstrong was recovering from cancer, there was a write-up on him in either Cycling News or Cycling Weekly. Armstrong himself said in the interview that if he never raced again he's be fine because he made decent money while racing and parlayed that into more financial success in the stock market.

He was quite wealthy at the time he began with his grand tour successes, so the money was definitely there.

 

[Race Radio]

What you just wrote is a straight-up lie.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

When Armstrong was recovering from cancer, there was a write-up on him in either Cycling News or Cycling Weekly. Armstrong himself said in the interview that if he never raced again he's be fine because he made decent money while racing and parlayed that into more financial success in the stock market.

He was quite wealthy at the time he began with his grand tour successes, so the money was definitely there.

Are you the same Berzin from the Velonew forum? If so welcome to the board.

BanProCycling is a troll. He has been banned here before but comes back using a different user name. He also has a sock puppet named WonderLance. He tries to disrupt threads by writing the most *** things possible and suck people into completely worthless discussion. You will see that most here have him on ignore. To put someone on ignore click this link
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

[Anonymous]

Are you the same Berzin from the Velonew forum? If so welcome to the board.

BanProCycling is a troll. He has been banned here before but comes back using a different user name. He also has a sock puppet named WonderLance. He tries to disrupt threads by writing the most *** things possible and suck people into completely worthless discussion. You will see that most here have him on ignore. To put someone on ignore click this link
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

Everytime I see BPC responding and I can't see his post I smile. I think he's wet his pants.