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Lance now Clean due to all the tests?

Mar 19, 2009
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Is Lance racing clean now? Serious question...
What about Garmin, Columbia, Saxo bank? Who are doping and who are not? Surely there must be dopers and non-dopers. Good versus evil. With modern testing from WADA and the UCI we can fight the dark side, Those few bad apples must be removed from the cart and I believe the UCI is doing a responsible and respectable job at that task.

Discuss.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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I have never personally witnessed a doping test, ever. Apart from my own when I had to pee in a cup for a job interview.

At some point though, you have to believe the media reports that LA is being tested up to twice per day. How can the guy be taking anything?
 
biker77 said:
I have never personally witnessed a doping test, ever. Apart from my own when I had to pee in a cup for a job interview.

At some point though, you have to believe the media reports that LA is being tested up to twice per day. How can the guy be taking anything?
Blood Doping. Untraceable.
HGH. Untraceable when micro dosed.

Ask Alpe d'Huez or Blackcat why they delay the testers one hour before the test. They know the details.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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biker77 said:
I have never personally witnessed a doping test, ever. Apart from my own when I had to pee in a cup for a job interview.

At some point though, you have to believe the media reports that LA is being tested up to twice per day. How can the guy be taking anything?
how did Marion Jones and Jan Ullrich not test positive? How many tests did they undergo?

There is your answer.

The pee is not like tea leaves, one cannot devine the dope from the flask in the MSGC, like one devines the future from the tea leaves.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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blood doping i wonder about and hgh as well is also hard to detect but not as important to cyclists as blood doping. they have to be careful with there crit if some tour riders are blood doping assuming the testers keep track of it(crit).
 
Yes he's clean - everytime he is tested he has to have a shower for twenty minutes - of course he's clean ;)

I know people think the Tour is boring this year - but does nobody think asking the same fcuking question over and over and over again is also rather dull :eek:

Doping is endemic within the sport of cycling. At the moment you are pretty safe to assume that most have and / or are doping.

I am happy to encourage those folk that are interested in understanding how it can be managed out of the sport. IMO it will ultimately be down to the riders. I know all the arguments about the sponsors, team management bla di bla di bla - but for me it will be the riders that will eventually have enough critical mass - one at a time - to change the culture of the sport.

I guess it will start with awareness and honesty... and at some point there needs to be some integrity. I have said this before but because IMO it's the riders that will bring about a change - we need a bomb proof whistle blower program... how about a sponsor of that... Nike gives $1m to any rider that comes clean? Not going to happen - not yet anyway - but I think when the sport is really ready to change this won't seem such a far fetched idea.
 
May 6, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Blood Doping. Untraceable.
HGH. Untraceable when micro dosed.

Ask Alpe d'Huez or Blackcat why they delay the testers one hour before the test. They know the details.

Official line is that they were all sleeping as the tester arrived an hour early. So make of that, what you will. I read in Michael Barry's book (when he was with USPS) that on the day of L-B-L the UCI had no problem in waking them up and make them go for a doping control (which they did go to).
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Yes, I think Armstrong is currently riding clean and that that is one of the reasons he is not going to win this Tour. My prediction is he'll finish around 10th place in a few mountain stages and lose a minute or two in the TT. I do not believe he will end on the podium.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Jonathan said:
Yes, I think Armstrong is currently riding clean and that that is one of the reasons he is not going to win this Tour. My prediction is he'll finish around 10th place in a few mountain stages and lose a minute or two in the TT. I do not believe he will end on the podium.
are you serious?
 
Jul 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
are you serious?

Well, yes. He is, after all, a mighty talented rider and even clean I'd expect him to make it in the top ten - Willy Voet indicated that Charly Mottet was able to do so even when EPO was rampant.

The one thing that doesn't fit is that Armstrong apparently believes he has a real chance to win.If clean, he should know he doesn't.

But we'll see. If he tests positive, I will not eat my shoe or anything.

And about the second part: yes, I am dead serious he is not going to make the podium. If life is the table and fate is the wheel, then let the chips fall where they may, but TTs don't lie and Armstrong is not one of the three best overall riders in this Tour.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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We'll probably never know for certain if he is currently doping, but his form will prove itself in the coming days. Perhaps today. No reason to flame: if he wins I was obviously wrong about the second part and likely about the first as well.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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yeah, I cant work out if it is peremptory, BB saying "no flames" or it is a concession on his part, tho controversial, he was not flaming. I suppose I was doing the second option, not flaming intentionally.

When BB does it, it is just so absurd, must be tongue in cheek.
 
Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but I'm starting to think after listening to Lance make statements like this:

"A lot has been said about the team politics, but he's my teammate, so I can't do anything other than follow. That was the case in Andorra, and if that happens in Verbier or on the Mont Ventoux, I have to make the same choice. I can't break the rules of the team. I will always follow the orders of the team."

...that he's going to lose the Tour after getting dropped on the climbs, and when it's all done and over, he's going to try to raise doubt on Contador's win by saying "I could have attacked, but team rules kept me from doing so. Still, great win for the team."

Anyone else see this possibility?
 
Jonathan said:
I'd expect him to make it in the top ten - Willy Voet indicated that Charly Mottet was able to do so even when EPO was rampant.
Uh, not exactly. Mottet was 4th in the 1991 Tour when EPO likely got going. It was indeed a very good showing. But by 1992 when it was in much heavier use, Mottet (along with Lemond) was a DNF. The highest placed finisher who was completely clean in the 1992 Tour was probably someone like Eric Caritoux, former Vuelta winner, who was over an hour back, or the super talented Gilles Delion - picked in about 1990 as a potential future Tour winner, who was 2 hours back. In 1993 & 1994 Mottet did finish the Tour, but an hour or more behind.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but I'm starting to think after listening to Lance make statements like this:

"A lot has been said about the team politics, but he's my teammate, so I can't do anything other than follow. That was the case in Andorra, and if that happens in Verbier or on the Mont Ventoux, I have to make the same choice. I can't break the rules of the team. I will always follow the orders of the team."

...that he's going to lose the Tour after getting dropped on the climbs, and when it's all done and over, he's going to try to raise doubt on Contador's win by saying "I could have attacked, but team rules kept me from doing so. Still, great win for the team."

Anyone else see this possibility?

I posted this exact scenario somewhere else yesterday, dont remember where.

Lance is in a no-lose situation, if he wins he is Lance the greatest story ever, if Contador wins, he and Bruyneel will claim it was all part of the masterplan and Lance could have done more and you just know the Lance fans will lap it up completely.

Since he came back, I have always felt he has been in a no lose situation, if he loses he has loads of excuses, if he wins....well I dread to think.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Uh, not exactly. Mottet was 4th in the 1991 Tour when EPO likely got going. It was indeed a very good showing. But by 1992 when it was in much heavier use, Mottet (along with Lemond) was a DNF. The highest placed finisher who was completely clean in the 1992 Tour was probably someone like Eric Caritoux, former Vuelta winner, who was over an hour back, or the super talented Gilles Delion - picked in about 1990 as a potential future Tour winner, who was 2 hours back. In 1993 & 1994 Mottet did finish the Tour, but an hour or more behind.

Hampsten placed fourth in 1992. I seem to recall he benefited from a break, perhaps beyond his win on Alpe d'Huez.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Uh, not exactly. Mottet was 4th in the 1991 Tour when EPO likely got going. It was indeed a very good showing. But by 1992 when it was in much heavier use, Mottet (along with Lemond) was a DNF. The highest placed finisher who was completely clean in the 1992 Tour was probably someone like Eric Caritoux, former Vuelta winner, who was over an hour back, or the super talented Gilles Delion - picked in about 1990 as a potential future Tour winner, who was 2 hours back. In 1993 & 1994 Mottet did finish the Tour, but an hour or more behind.

Hey Alpe, hate to be nitpicking here...but Eric Caritoux, according to Willy Voet, whilst extremely clean most of the time, did dope on the big ocasions (Like Tour de France) Granted this was apparently the bare minimum, but anyways....;)
 
To people naive enough to think that negative tests show a clean athlete, or that nothing can be achieved by delaying a tester:
From the sprinter Dwain Chambers' book. He was getting his drugs from BALCO and Victor Conte. He only got busted because a rival sprinting coach sent the stuff to the governing body....reminds me of Lance and Mayo....
Extract:
By the time I returned to England in April, however, the stomach cramps had caused me to miss three meetings. I was worried, but I continued with the programme.
I was sat at home massaging The Cream, which is the drugs masking agent, into my arms when the knock on the door came.

The Cream leaves a white residue, taking about an hour to disappear and smells a little bit like burnt almonds. I don’t remember a feeling of panic as I calmly walked to the door, but the residue on my arms was clearly visible as I was wearing a sleeveless vest top.
I opened the door and an official-looking man spoke His words chilled me to the bone. We walked into the lounge; the tube of THG lay on top of the television and the faint smell of almonds permeated the air.
He was a dour man, not too talkative and he did not leave my side until I had peed into his canister.
Victor had warned me about this first test. I thought I was ready. I thought I could be cool. Instead, I was sweating like a bull.
Eventually, I handed it over to him and stared at the canister like it was some radioactive substance.

He noticed my reaction and said: ‘Don’t worry, son, it’s only a little urine.’
The moment he left, I called Victor. ‘I’ve been tested,’ I blurted into the phone. I was on the point of tears.
‘I was rubbing The Cream in when he came to the door, it was on my fingers and could . . .’
Victor cut me off mid-sentence, relaxed me, told me it would be OK. I admitted I was taking THG and EPO and there was an uncomfortable silence at the end of the phone.
We checked dates and he said: ‘Dwain, you have been following the calendar day by day, haven’t you?’ I had.
I began breathing normally again. He berated me for answering the door to the tester and I apologised.

I had taken EPO nine times that month and yet opened the door to someone I had never seen before. That was stupid. There is an easy way around the system and one that is fool proof.
Quite simply, you hide.
 
Jul 16, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
Since he came back, I have always felt he has been in a no lose situation, if he loses he has loads of excuses, if he wins....well I dread to think.

I think Lance's realistic goals were to try to get yellow (we saw him go after this aggressively twice when old, confident Lance would not have been concerned at that point), maybe even steal a stage win (or, more accurately, have AC hand him one). Either scenario is a hugely successful comeback for Lance and generates tons of publicity for his cause.

Time will tell. I don't think Lance will make excuses if he doesn't win, partially because that requires it being the goal to validate his comeback which would seem very unrealistic. The marketing machine will spin this any number of ways, probably focusing on a strong performance AND having his teammate win, all of which was "HUGE" for promoting his foundation. In other words, don't expect excuses but marketing spin to make Lance & his foundation to be the "real" winner of the TdF. If he gets destroyed on Ventoux or sooner, again I think the focus will be Lance calling it a success, saying he exceeded his own expectations, and then the hype & teasers start about being in better condition and form for next year.

OK, call all that excuses. I just don't think he needs to make excuses because that presupposes A) he had a real & believed expectation to win when deciding to come back and B) he's nearly 38 for crying out loud. I just think that, MAYBE, he'll be humble and try to focus on what he accomplished for his foundation. Here's the final headline for you :)
"Former champion graceful in defeat; declares cancer foundation as the real winner"

So many interesting stories surrounding this guy. It is somewhat ironic that he HAS added drama to this tour - whether or not it's the sort of drama you care for - without actually really doing anything on the bike to this point. Then again, what would the media do trying to cover events like this without all the special interest stories (and, yes, I too gag over this stuff during Olympics coverage)?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Who's doing tests at this years tour? UCI? Who's been responsible for them before? I have a feeling UCI is covering up positive test especially regarding Armstrong as conclusive evidence that Lance was doping through all his tour victories could really kill the popularity of the tour. Especially in the US.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Wergeland said:
Who's doing tests at this years tour? UCI? Who's been responsible for them before? I have a feeling UCI is covering up positive test especially regarding Armstrong as conclusive evidence that Lance was doping through all his tour victories could really kill the popularity of the tour. Especially in the US.

I agree. a "clean" tour would help alot of people, ASO banning Astana last year and then still having riders test positive was a major fiasco. The last few years have been very hard on the sport publicity wise, i think most of all ASO needs to get through this Tour without any positives then they can declare their controls as success.

France has had quite a succesful tour so far, lots of stage winners,
Great Publicity for them AND
this Tour will end with a French team having the most days in yellow,
Thanks to previously banned Astana working to keep that French team in yellow.
One hand washing the other i think;)
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Stage 15 was impressive. Contador, Wiggins, Schleck, Armstrong, Evans, Kloden, et al all good to great performances. But I think Contador may have dosed a little heavy and it may show up in testing. He may be following the same protocol as in 2007 and that could mean busted if WADA & Co. have new testing techniques. Wiggins? What can you say? Bernhadt Kohl? Could this be another Landis moment?
 

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