Lance's Legacy: How Lance Changed Cycling

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Biffins said:
Just a brief of list of some of the innovations introduced by Lance/Johan that have changed the sport of cycling forever.

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Im going to go out on a limb here... Your'e American right?
You didn't really know anything about Pro cycling and the tour in particular before 1999?

It shows In just about every point you have made.

Apologies to true American cycling fans.
 
Bennyl said:
Lance obviously divides opinion. Personally, the question marks over his career are too loud to ignore for me, however, you cannot ignore the fact that he put cycling on the map in many countries where there was zero interest before. For that, i am cannot complain because I love the sport and like many others, my interest now extends far beyond the TdF.

Really? Which ones? I trust you have the statistics to substantiate that, too.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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Tim_sleepless said:
I can imagine... "hey Chris... this is where you're going to spend 100km towing Lance for him to give up as soon as everyone starts sprinting", "Levi.. just sit on someone's wheel here, here, here, here and here." "Poppo. no drugs this year, so at the bottom of this hilll is where you're going to blow... we'll have Sherwin ready to make his "Popovych goes Pop" joke again." "Klodi.. this is where you're going to spend 200km in the middle of the pack on pancake flat roads through the Bordeaux forest" "Lance, you'll be a bit knackered by the time you get here, so look for something to crash into" "Yani, here's a washed up deadweight, go and drag it over the Tourmalet" "Dmitriy, why are you here again? Go to Paris and practice hanging around wearing black and looking sheepish for a couple of days"

Worked 7 times.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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andy1234 said:
Im going to go out on a limb here... Your'e American right?
You didn't really know anything about Pro cycling and the tour in particular before 1999?

It shows In just about every point you have made.

Apologies to true American cycling fans.

I'm not American.

I don't live in America. I'm in Isle of Man actually. IP trace me to confirm if you want (well the admin can).

Is it a shock that anyone outside the US can be a fan of Lance.

Do people have to be Swiss to admire Federer, or from Luxemburg to support Schleck. That would dramatically reduce their available fan base.

Get over it. Lance has a huge global fan base and only a small minority of his overall fans are American.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
While JMLB is only one man, his quote can be taken on face value and adds weight to your argument. Chapeau for that one.
The detractors now have 24 hours to come up with a rebuttal: i.e. tentavive proof of any other team reconning for the 2000 or 2001 Tours.

As for the self assertion quotes from Lance, they have no credibilty.
He is the source of the "most tested athlete in the world" fallacy.
Plenty of evidence out there, proving that claim to be positively false.;)

The director was referreing to the 1999 and 2000 tours. Yeah, I'd like to see some evidence that any other team did Recon of the course in those years.

If noone did in those years but others started doing 2001 onwards, then they are just copying US Postal........ which just underscores what I am saying.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
After 5 minutes in this site's 2001 archives:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/may01/may02news.shtml

Garzelli recons the ITT course.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/jul01/jul23news.php
Verbruggen criticises Lance's lack of racing.

To race or to recon, that is the question?:rolleyes:

Yeah, everyone checks out the Time Trial. And that wasn't even for the Tour but the Giro. And wasn't even in 1999 and 2000 which is what Jean-Marie Leblanc was referring to.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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Race Radio said:
You are embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge.

Many riders do recon, they just don't bring along a film crew like Armstrong

You are embarrassing yourself with you lack of evidence to support your assertion.

Show me evidence of teams doing recon on the Tour de France course in 1999 and 2000.

Thanks.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Biffins said:
Lance has a huge global fan base and only a small minority of his overall fans are American.

Biffins said:
You are embarrassing yourself with you lack of evidence to support your assertion.

Seriously, is it possible to support your assertion about his fan base. I'm guessing a small minority is 20% or less, so if you are correct then for every American fan there should be at least 4 fans from outside of America.

Sure, it's possible*, but is this anything other than an assertion?

* (look at Man United - it has a lot of support gobally, but I don't know how much is England/elsewhere)
 
How Lance changed cycling Part deux-and these are actually not myths created by Lance and his minions

He brought PR BS and spin to an unprecedented level never witnessed before.

He helped develop the idea that a DS has a greater role in helping a champion than they actually have, Bruyneel.

He brought the infamous 'blacklist' to cycling in which he didnt talk to people who didnt buy the PR and spin.

He singularly brought racism to cycling with his constant jobes against the French who are proving to be right more often than not. Of course he also fell back on that George W Bush phrase, "if you are not with us, you are against us"

He done more than any other cyclist in history to promote the idea that every other race outside the Tour is not important and that cycling before 1999 didnt really exist.

He created a fanbase outside of cycling who know very little about the sport who he constantly plays to when things get rough. He done this through his personal story to propel himself onto the celeb circuit in a celelbrity obsessed culture. Included in this group are all the 3 weeks fans who appear every July acting like they know more about cycling than they actually do.

He brought an outside agenda to the sport of cycling and used it as a shield to both promote himseld and protect himself against any akward questions.

Other than that, cycling is pretty much the same sport I started following over 20 years ago.

I am sure I missed a few but others will fill in the gaps.
 
Biffins said:
You are embarrassing yourself with you lack of evidence to support your assertion.

Show me evidence of teams doing recon on the Tour de France course in 1999 and 2000.

Thanks.

Lots of riders done recon before Lance, I know from looking back at magazines from early 90s that riders done recon on stages and in particular climbs. I guess I cant get evidence as the internet didnt exist back then. In particular I recenlty remember reading about Chiappucci doing recon of the alpine climbs to be used in the Tour when the Giro was near the same climbs. That would be 92/93.

Recon is over-rated anyway, if you have been up certain climbs numerous times, you dont really need to recon them as you should already know them. Christ, I cycled the Tourmalet(the side Schleck won on) once a few years back and I still have a good idea of how it goes, climbing constantly from the valley even before the climb itself, then steady enough at the bottom, super tough through the village of Bareges and for a few km after, then steady for a few more kms before getting tougher and being super tough at the top. How is that for recon!!!Most pros have done certain climbs and routes many times so they know them already. Team SKY spewed a lot of BS this yeat about recon, climate prediction etc,etc. Didnt help them one bit.

Recon was something that pros done but never made a big deal of and because eveyone done it, nobody who followed cycling made a fuss about it. Then Lance arrives a delievers the myth to his unknowledgable fanbase and they just lap it up as gospel.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I think we need a teen sub-forum where the the kids can feel free to roam. This thread is plain embarrassing.
 
Jul 8, 2010
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salixcycling said:
Seriously, is it possible to support your assertion about his fan base. I'm guessing a small minority is 20% or less, so if you are correct then for every American fan there should be at least 4 fans from outside of America.

Sure, it's possible*, but is this anything other than an assertion?

* (look at Man United - it has a lot of support gobally, but I don't know how much is England/elsewhere)

I never claimed to the contrary. I might be wrong on that matter (that a majority of his fans are from outside the US). It was just hyperbole in response to being told I must be from the US since I supported Lance.

And I'm not even supporting Lance really. I merely pointing out some ways he's changed racing. I actually do think he did EPO and hope it is revealed.

Every great champion leaves his mark. Contador is also changing racing as we speak and we'll speak of his legacy in the years to come (burst attacks in mountains?).
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Biffins said:
The director was referreing to the 1999 and 2000 tours. Yeah, I'd like to see some evidence that any other team did Recon of the course in those years.

If noone did in those years but others started doing 2001 onwards, then they are just copying US Postal........ which just underscores what I am saying.

There must be thousands of references pre-Voldemort. Even old-fashioned Fignon describes a team recon of the Pyrenees in 1989 in his autobiography.

Oh ****. I responded to the troll again.
 
May 13, 2009
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Why do these kids need to open a new LA thread every five minutes? I thought we were piling up all the garbage in a single thread.

If you would like to talk about retired pro LA, go to the official LA thread.

LA is not an active professional racer, this section is called "Professional road racing"

Please delete this thread or move to appropriate section. General maybe?
 
Biffins said:
I'm not American.

I don't live in America. I'm in Isle of Man actually. IP trace me to confirm if you want (well the admin can).

Is it a shock that anyone outside the US can be a fan of Lance.

Do people have to be Swiss to admire Federer, or from Luxemburg to support Schleck. That would dramatically reduce their available fan base.

Get over it. Lance has a huge global fan base and only a small minority of his overall fans are American.


Apologies, your'e a Manxman who doesnt know much about Pro cycling or the Tour before 1999.
 
Jul 25, 2010
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indurain666 said:
Why do these kids need to open a new LA thread every five minutes? I thought we were piling up all the garbage in a single thread.

If you would like to talk about retired pro LA, go to the official LA thread.

LA is not an active professional racer, this section is called "Professional road racing"

Please delete this thread or move to appropriate section. General maybe?

Do the same with the "Moose loves Lemond and how he changed cycling" thread too, he's been retired a few days longer than LA now.
 
pedaling squares said:
+1. Absolute proof of what many suspected. My head is banging my desk out of frustration for having read this thread. We were sucked in yet again.

I asked why respond on another thread. Sorry I didn't send the memo and hope your head feels good soon. There are many more chummers gumming up the discussions suddenly so buck up, buttercup; pad your desktop.
 
May 13, 2009
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outrage9 said:
Do the same with the "Moose loves Lemond and how he changed cycling" thread too, he's been retired a few days longer than LA now.

Fair enough, but we only have about two Lemond threads not twenty. :eek: