Lance's program was superior? The evidence

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Skandar Akbar

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Dr. Maserati said:
Why do you keep bringing up only the TdF? If someone is sanctioned outside the Tour are they allowed compete in the Tour because they didn't get caught there?


Now I only usually quote Pat McQuaid for comedic value - but are you suggesting Uncle Pat is a liar?
I bring up the TdF because that is my point. You have come up with no explanation to why nobody got busted ther for 7 years, except of course the ESP skills of the German lady.

So your conclusion is nobody was doping at the tour those 7 years except LA, and he got away with it because he was the only one to pay off the UCI?
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Jean-René Bernaudeau, Voecklers DS, saying during 2004 TDF:
"It needs to stop that drivers be warned on the phone: Get ready, you will be checked in the hotel"
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Skandar Akbar said:
?

I bring up the TdF because that is my point. You have come up with no explanation to why nobody got busted ther for 7 years, except of course the ESP skills of the German lady.

UCI?
I presume you mean Ulrich`s coke incident?.

I stopped paying attention during Lanc`s 7 years. It was so obvious, so boring. Was there realy not a single TDF possitive/ disquaification in that time?:eek::eek:
 

Dr. Maserati

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Cobblestoned said:
Differently. Aha. My imagination is that now, that you people are a little bit more "surrounded" you have to step back little steps - step by step.
Exaggerating haters being right because of majority, is becoming a smaller factor here. I really enjoy that.

There is a huge step from differently to Lancethe exclusivelyonlyonegoodresponder.

People getting out of the corners always makes discussions more fruitful and tolerable, if both sides move.
Can you point out where RR has ever said that LA is the "only" good responder?
As you appear to have a thing for RR I am sure will remember exactly when and where he stated that.


yet you can never provide a link when requested.

As you have failed to back up your statement I have found it:
"Nobody liked doping; neither a Stanga nor a Riis... . I was told by one rider that there are deals between some teams and the UCI concerning the training controls. So one has to assume that there is no general change going on. This rider told me that proudly. Then I knew: Nothing has changed
Even ignoring that JJ was told by "one rider" for "training controls" (ie OOC)there is nothing new to this as Manzano confirmed that long before.
 

Skandar Akbar

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Darryl Webster said:
I presume you mean Ulrich`s coke incident?.

I stopped paying attention during Lanc`s 7 years. It was so obvious, so boring. Was there realy not a single TDF possitive/ disquaification in that time?:eek::eek:
No major players at the tour. Rumsas got busted afterwards with dope for his dog or something. Or maybe it was his mother in law. Same thing.

JU got busted OOC.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Can you...
No, I can't since I know your games very well. :rolleyes:
My work is done here since you start winding like an eel again.
No further comment on whatever you desperately try do now, dottore.

I am not such a loser not to notice that I won. - for the movieboy :D
 

Dr. Maserati

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Skandar Akbar said:
Im not sure if you are deliberately being stupid. Can you work in some emoticons so I can see what I am dealing with here?

I bring up the TdF because that is my point. You have come up with no explanation to why nobody got busted ther for 7 years, except of course the ESP skills of the German lady.

So your conclusion is nobody was doping at the tour those 7 years except LA, and he got away with it because he was the only one to pay off the UCI?
That is not my conclusion - you appear to have gone the Cobblestoned route of making things up and ad hominem remarks.

I will ask again - show me one other rider who paid the UCI donations.
 

Polish

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"Bribing the UCI" is but a one attribute in the "program" that Lance used on his incredible run of 7 TdF's in a row over those magical 2500 days.

The fact that Lance evaded the clutches of Pound/WADA and Bordry/AFLD and the USADA and the Gendarmes and the FEDS Etc Etc Etc is incredible in itself.

But c'mon, give it up.
"Lance could not TT"
"Lance could not climb"
"Lance bribed the UCI"
"EPO/Hemassist transformed Lance"
Give it up. It is over. History
one two three four five six seven IN A ROW.
HISTORY

Anyway, here are a couple summaries of Lance's "Progam to Success" posted previously in the clinic:

Monte Zoncolon said:
What exactly made Armstrong So Strong. 7 Tour titles in a row.

1- Use of performance enhancing drugs such as Epo.
2- Banned Recovery agents such as Synthetic Testosterone.
3- Autologous blood transfusion's.
4- Access to unclassified performance enhancing drugs.
5- Protection from the UCI. ( ALLEGED COVERUPS )
6- Well funded teams that had the money to hire the best doctors, coaches ect.
7- All the best Bikes and training equipment Money could buy.
8- His association with the infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari.
9- His obsession with winning the Tour.
10- Basing his entire season around winning the Tour De France.
11- The art of the peak.
12- Team's of talented rider's that participated in institutionalized doping programmes.
13- Talent.
14- Hunger.
15- Determination.
16- Hard Training.
17- Extremely meticulous and obsessional preparation.
18- Dedication.
19- Never say die attitude.
20- Belief.
21- Confidence.
22- An incredible resolve to withstand extreme pain thresholds.
23- Luck.
24- After beating cancer a stronger belief in himself than pre-cancer.
25- Driven inside with a burning passion, feeling like a messiah for each and every cancer victim so as to inspire and give them belief with each and every one of his victories.
26- Extreme Egotism.
27- An unrelenting Desire to Win.
28- Fear of failure.
29- A burning desire to create a fallacious legendary sporting legacy.
30- But most of all a cocktail mix of illegal pharmaceutical performance enhancing drugs, recovery agents.
And superior Knowledge on how to mask potentially positive Drug Tests.

I think that says about it all really. But I am Sure some one else has something to add.
polish said:
Wonderful list of attributes. Here are a few that you missed, some overlaps too.
Honestly, we will never see another rider win 7 TdF's in a row. Never....

1) Post Cancer Mind-Body Transformation
2) Lazer-Like Focus on the TdF
3) His Team Mates
4) Training Training Training Training
5) Training at Altitude
6) EPO/Blood Doping
7)Tactical Genius for a DS
8) Focus on Diet, Weighing his Food, Targeted Weight Loss
9) Higher Cadence
10) Sleeping in a Tent
11) Race Course Recons
12) Assos Chamois Creme
13) Inspiration & Motivation from the Fan's
14) High Pain Threshold
15) Mental Tenacity
16) Savvy Businessman ie bribes and "politics"
17) Wind tunnel testing
18) Best Wheelsets
19) Aero Dimples on his shorts
20) Support from his families.
21) Completely selfish, self absorbed, dedicated, complete determination to win,24-7
22) Sleeps like a baby without anxiety
23) Great Chefs
24) Great Mechanics
25) etc
 
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TdF 2000 Emmanuel Magnien of France was banned for three months by the International Cycling Union (UCI) after testing positive for corticoids during Tour de France.

TdF 2004 Stefano Casagranda and Martin Hvastija were asked to leave the 2004 Tour de France after race organisers received a letter from Padova's financial brigade, saying the riders were under investigation in Italy on doping charges.

TDF 2005 Dario Frigo, was ejected from the 2005 Tour de France before the start of stage 11. Police found ten doses of EPO in his wife's car as part of a border-crossing search.

ASO are as much to blame as the UCI for so few doping scandals surrounding the TdF during 1999 - 2005.
 
Skandar Akbar said:
I bring up the TdF because that is my point. You have come up with no explanation to why nobody got busted ther for 7 years, except of course the ESP skills of the German lady.

So your conclusion is nobody was doping at the tour those 7 years except LA, and he got away with it because he was the only one to pay off the UCI?
I am not quite sure what your argument is. Are you saying you think nobody was doping during that 7 year span and that the estimated power outputs and high speeds can be attributed to a 7 year stretch of consistent 25 mph tailwinds all across France, or do you have some other explanation?
 

Skandar Akbar

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Dr. Maserati said:
That is not my conclusion - you appear to have gone the Cobblestoned route of making things up and ad hominem remarks.

I will ask again - show me one other rider who paid the UCI donations.
I cannot do that so you win. I admitted upthread that I have accepted the word of that lady, or lack of word on the personal transactions for doping coverups, so I don't know why you can't move on. I have not heard her comment on whether or not the moon landing was real, or whether the yeti is a real animal. For now I will conclude those things are false. Does she have a website where us rubes can go and get info on various contested info in the world?

What is your conclusion on why there were no major doping positives at the tour those 7 years? I assume you have cleared your hypothesis with the German chick?
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Polish said:
"Bribing the UCI" is but a one attribute in the "program" that Lance used on his incredible run of 7 TdF's in a row over those magical 2500 days.

The fact that Lance evaded the clutches of Pound/WADA and Bordry/AFLD and the USADA and the Gendarmes and the FEDS Etc Etc Etc is incredible in itself.

But c'mon, give it up.
"Lance could not TT"
"Lance could not climb"
"Lance bribed the UCI"
"EPO/Hemassist transformed Lance"
Give it up. It is over. History
one two three four five six seven IN A ROW.
HISTORY

Anyway, here are a couple summaries of Lance's "Progam to Success" posted previously in the clinic:
Texan, best!
 

Skandar Akbar

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Nov 20, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
I am not quite sure what your argument is. Are you saying you think nobody was doping during that 7 year span and that the estimated power outputs and high speeds can be contributed to a 7 year stretch of consistent 25 mph tailwinds all across France, or do you have some other explanation?
At least you seem to have the support of C'stoned's cats, and as they are undoubtedly more capable of critical thought than he is, I suppose that is something.
Huh? I am saying the exact opposite. I am saying there was more coverup at the biggest cycling event in the world than just LA. The evidence you post above proves that point because no way were those pelotons clean.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Skandar Akbar said:
I cannot do that so you win. I admitted upthread that I have accepted the word of that lady, or lack of word on the personal transactions for doping coverups
What is your conclusion on why there were no major doping positives at the tour those 7 years? I assume you have cleared your hypothesis with the German chick?
So - as I thought, you have nothing on anyone else -so the only person that we know donated to the UCI is Armstrong, now that wasn't so hard was it?

As to your question - there are no tests for autologous blood transfusions.
 
Skandar Akbar said:
Huh? I am saying the exact opposite. I am saying there was more coverup at the biggest cycling event in the world than just LA. The evidence you post above proves that point because no way were those pelotons clean.
Oh I see what you are saying. Not only was it a level playing field because everyone was doping, but it was even more level because everyone was paying off the UCI.
Well that pretty much convinces me that Lance is a good guy and is being wrongly persecuted.....I mean prosecuted for doping.
Let's just call the whole thing off and go home then.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
So - as I thought, you have nothing on anyone else -so the only person that we know donated to the UCI is Armstrong, now that wasn't so hard was it?

As to your question - there are no tests for autologus blood transfusions.
Hopefully the DEHP (plastic test) will get certified in the near future...
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
So - as I thought, you have nothing on anyone else -so the only person that we know donated to the UCI is Armstrong, now that wasn't so hard was it?

As to your question - there are no tests for autologus blood transfusions.
Dr. You do not have any proff that no one else donated to the UCI either. After reading all this it is my opinion that more than one team had or has agreements with the UCI that most likely included payoffs. The other opinion I have is that more than just the UCI was paid by more than one team.

When you grouped both the wrestler and cobbles together it was to demean them correct? That makes your accusations of ad hominem remarks etc. transparent in my opinion.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Oh I see what you are saying. Not only was it a level playing field because everyone was doping, but it was even more level because everyone was paying off the UCI.
Well that pretty much convinces me that Lance is a good guy and is being wrongly persecuted.....I mean prosecuted for doping.
Let's just call the whole thing off and go home then.
He’s the guy that everyone else hates. If you had a dollar for every time you heard someone slander the idea of a penis within his oral vicinity you’d have enough money to pay your own way to the TDF, and maybe a couple of your buddies.
 
Hugh Januss said:
Oh I see what you are saying. Not only was it a level playing field because everyone was doping, but it was even more level because everyone was paying off the UCI.
Well that pretty much convinces me that Lance is a good guy and is being wrongly persecuted.....I mean prosecuted for doping.
Let's just call the whole thing off and go home then.
One thing I don't get in your scenario is why as soon as Lance retired did guys start getting busted left and right?
 

Skandar Akbar

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Dr. Maserati said:
So - as I thought, you have nothing on anyone else -so the only person that we know donated to the UCI is Armstrong, now that wasn't so hard was it?

As to your question - there are no tests for autologous blood transfusions.
Yes I have admitted I have nothing on anybody else. Thus, it is possible all these high speeds, with no positives, were due to coincidence and blood transfusions.

Problem with that is I thought you needed a high powered doc to come up with that program, at least early on. Strange nobody got busted for roids, making agents, T, clen, etc during that time either.
 
Skandar Akbar said:
Yes I have admitted I have nothing on anybody else. Thus, it is possible all these high speeds, with no positives, were due to coincidence and blood transfusions.

Problem with that is I thought you needed a high powered doc to come up with that program, at least early on. Strange nobody got busted for roids, making agents, T, clen, etc during that time either.
So you're saying that everyone else was making do with blood transfusions and coincidence while Lance (the only one paying off the UCI) was the only one on a super program from a high powered doc? That certainly could account for his superiority then, I think you are on to something there.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Glenn_Wilson said:
Dr. You do not have any proff that no one else donated to the UCI either. After reading all this it is my opinion that more than one team had or has agreements with the UCI that most likely included payoffs. The other opinion I have is that more than just the UCI was paid by more than one team.

When you grouped both the wrestler and cobbles together it was to demean them correct? That makes your accusations of ad hominem remarks etc. transparent in my opinion.
No-one is saying only USPS had inside info on OOC testing - what was mentioned earlier was that no-one had both OOC tip offs and was found donating direct to the UCI.

We know from Manzano's comments that his own team Kelme and the USPS had prior notification to OOC testing - but there is no evidence (or even rumour) or a rider having access to the top rungs of the UCI after giving donations.

As to the ad homiems - I have not grouped them together, but I have asked both for references or links, which I have given - neither have done so and the only thing they have offered is petty personal remarks.
 
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Hugh Januss said:
One thing I don't get in your scenario is why as soon as Lance retired did guys start getting busted left and right?

Scott SoCal wonders the same thing. In fact, Scott SoCal belives something nefarious is going on here.
 
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