Landis ABC Nightline interview

[fatandfast]

Lance's fundamental error was thinking that Landis wasn't mentally strong enough to go through with the nuclear option. Large swaths of the public are buying into this belief, too, without stopping to consider the reality. It's easy to respond to one's own bitter disappointment, anger and sense of betrayal (responses to Lance's being revealed to be an unrepentant doper) with misplaced transfer of all those negative feelings to Landis - especially when one's hero (LA) is carping about how Landis (and LeMond and everyone else)_ are bitter, jealous, losers, failures, mentally-unstable alcoholics.

People do themselves a disservice if they stop with that and don't ask, "well, is floyd really mentally unstable? CAN he handle this?" And of course he can - because nothing is on the line for him except the chance to recapture the sense of being "ok" with himself.

So for Floyd, telling the truth and admitting to the pantheon of doping wrongs brings him release, closure, an unburdening, etc., whereas for Lance it represents the destruction of his entire self-created cynical myth.

There's no strain at all on Floyd in comparison to the last four years' lying. He gets better every day. The opposite though is true for Lance - each day brings him one closer to a final reckoning.

And if he's innocent, he should be thrilled to have the chance to prove it in open court!

Very confusing Joe?? So Landis called Lance and said "hey why don't you say you used drugs also. Even though you didn't get caught we both know you did it". Lance was supposed to say "ok"on the phone or "I'll think about it". WTF. Why would Lance admit to something true or not on Landis's time line. Landis wrote a book and spent years until he came to terms with his mistakes. Landis forcing peoples hand is absurd. Fingon was able to talk as he nears his death bed. Lance may have violated many rules but the mechanism used to catch him didn't work. Landis's not getting a job or race entry should play a part as well as Lance's I too busy for your BS right now. I can see where Flyod was at the end of his rope. If he thinks that his special knowledge of some sh-it Lance pulled is the source of his ills he is dumber than anybody could think. I know guys as far back as Alpha Romeo,Crest and Wheaties who said they used way,way after their careers were over and the context of their admissions was at the right time for them. More important it was not don't ala Jose Conseco so you can sell a book or feather your nest with 40g's from 60 Minutes. Floyd failed as a bike racer,husband,son,friend.team mate and role model. I hope his new career as do gooder and policeman work out better. Landis should have called Planckaert or Parkin for some advise about profit from a life with and without mistakes.

 

[sars1981]

I hope his new career as do gooder and policeman work out better.

Me too. But i say it with sincerity. Everybody deserves a second chance.

 

[M Sport]

<snip>Why would Lance admit to something true or not on Landis's time line. Landis wrote a book and spent years until he came to terms with his mistakes. Landis forcing peoples hand is absurd.<snip>

Haha ... I think that's exactly what's in motion now.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Very confusing Joe?? So Landis called Lance and said "hey why don't you say you used drugs also. Even though you didn't get caught we both know you did it". Lance was supposed to say "ok"on the phone or "I'll think about it". WTF. Why would Lance admit to something true or not on Landis's time line. Landis wrote a book and spent years until he came to terms with his mistakes. Landis forcing peoples hand is absurd. Fingon was able to talk as he nears his death bed. Lance may have violated many rules but the mechanism used to catch him didn't work. Landis's not getting a job or race entry should play a part as well as Lance's I too busy for your BS right now. I can see where Flyod was at the end of his rope. If he thinks that his special knowledge of some sh-it Lance pulled is the source of his ills he is dumber than anybody could think. I know guys as far back as Alpha Romeo,Crest and Wheaties who said they used way,way after their careers were over and the context of their admissions was at the right time for them. More important it was not don't ala Jose Conseco so you can sell a book or feather your nest with 40g's from 60 Minutes. Floyd failed as a bike racer,husband,son,friend.team mate and role model. I hope his new career as do gooder and policeman work out better. Landis should have called Planckaert or Parkin for some advise about profit from a life with and without mistakes.

This is quite rich.

So, the world should wait for the Lance confession "when he is ready"?

For Floyd to decide he must unburden himself from all the things that led to his downfall, it sounds like it was not with an expectation that anyone else would come forward. He said his piece, explained how to beat the tests, and has been relatively quiet since the news broke. A few interviews and one TV appearance. For news of tis magnitude, that is not much. If he was gearing a publicity campaign against Lance, I think there would be far more interviews and visibility. But what is he doing? Racing his bike unattached.

You say the mechanism didn't catch Lance. I guess you mean the ADA's. Actually, they did. There are 6 EPO positives, whose evidenciary value will be considered without a doubt. If USADA/WADA is involved, they could request re-tests of any/all Lance samples, run CIR's, utilize the newer EPO test to go through the probably hundreds of stored samples. I particularly am interested in the UCI's position on this topic.

When the legal gears get to their grinding, I think this case will be far less about Floyd Landis and more about the organized programme to provide doping to USPS team riders and Lance in order to assist in winning the Tour.

What next? Will you complain that the US Federal Govt should allow Lance to come to terms with his transgressions on "his" terms? As the Tour should have "let" Lance and TRS ride in their special kits today?

Pathetic.

 

[Tubeless]

Floyd failed as a bike racer, husband, son, friend.team mate and role model. I hope his new career as do gooder and policeman work out better. Landis should have called Planckaert or Parkin for some advise about profit from a life with and without mistakes.

It's easy to get into the personal attacks, but it'd be worth taking a look at the bigger picture.

While all the focus seems to be on Armstrong, the greater good from Landis' iniative to come forward is likely the biggest single step forward to clean up pro cycling in years. Armstrong is retiring and won't be around next year. But it is necessary to expose what happened in the past in order to permit riders who prefer to compete clean a chance to succeed.

There are several positive steps that have already taken place. Landis' accusation of possible corruption at UCI by Armstrong probably contributed to UCI cleaning up their act at TdF - which was also helped by WADA sending independent observers to watch the testing process. Racing at the tour has looked a lot cleaner this year all around - exhibit one is Armstrong's own performance, especially after placing 2nd at Tour de Suisse and 4th at the prolog. That suggests the controls and monitoring was too tight to risk doping during the tour, even for the masters of the dope.

The other major step is the slow but steady crumbling of the omerta. Getting Brunyeel implicated in this will be to take out a major omerta boss. Armstrong has obviously been the godfather, and top enforcer / hitman. We all know about Filippo Simeoni and a few others Armsrtong has aired publically, but how many silent "killings" have taken place over the years? A well-placed tip to UCI to test a former teammate that did not have the "decency" to stay loyal to Armstrong? Individual riders must have felt trapped within the system. A comparison to mafia is not that far off.

Part of pro cycling's problem has been the commercial structure in place. There are no national teams, and national cycling federations are often powerless in trying to enforce riders competing away from home soil. UCI has been particularly complicit, and no doubt the personalities and views of the heads Verbruggen and McQuaid have been major contributors to the dirty status quo. The French anti-doping authorities and CONI have helped on the edges, but it will take removal of the top omerta bosses to complete the clean-up - even if there are no personnel changes at UCI, their power has been reduced.

What Landis has started here has a real chance to help make a real positive change for the sport, and anyone rooting for cleaner competition should be applauding his courage.

 

[velosopher54]

It's easy to get into the personal attacks, but it'd be worth taking a look at the bigger picture.

While all the focus seems to be on Armstrong, the greater good from Landis' iniative to come forward is likely the biggest single step forward to clean up pro cycling in years. Armstrong is retiring and won't be around next year. But it is necessary to expose what happened in the past in order to permit riders who prefer to compete clean a chance to succeed.

There are several positive steps that have already taken place. Landis' accusation of possible corruption at UCI by Armstrong probably contributed to UCI cleaning up their act at TdF - which was also helped by WADA sending independent observers to watch the testing process. Racing at the tour has looked a lot cleaner this year all around - exhibit one is Armstrong's own performance, especially after placing 2nd at Tour de Suisse and 4th at the prolog. That suggests the controls and monitoring was too tight to risk doping during the tour, even for the masters of the dope.

The other major step is the slow but steady crumbling of the omerta. Getting Brunyeel implicated in this will be to take out a major omerta boss. Armstrong has obviously been the godfather, and top enforcer / hitman. We all know about Filippo Simeoni and a few others Armsrtong has aired publically, but how many silent "killings" have taken place over the years? A well-placed tip to UCI to test a former teammate that did not have the "decency" to stay loyal to Armstrong? Individual riders must have felt trapped within the system. A comparison to mafia is not that far off.

Part of pro cycling's problem has been the commercial structure in place. There are no national teams, and national cycling federations are often powerless in trying to enforce riders competing away from home soil. UCI has been particularly complicit, and no doubt the personalities and views of the heads Verbruggen and McQuaid have been major contributors to the dirty status quo. The French anti-doping authorities and CONI have helped on the edges, but it will take removal of the top omerta bosses to complete the clean-up - even if there are no personnel changes at UCI, their power has been reduced.

What Landis has started here has a real chance to help make a real positive change for the sport, and anyone rooting for cleaner competition should be applauding his courage.

Great post! Bravo!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Once the UCI pushed to have pros in the Olympics, it gutted the mandate of many countries to have effective national team programs (including an internal doping protocol). But hey, it made the UCI a lot of money.

Not to say that all Nat Teams are good. I know of riders who have tested positive internationally, but then had nothing happen to them in terms of bans. Rather, their own federation kept the results underwraps to later blackmail the rider into compliance.

Disgustingly interesting stuff... Get rid of the bureaucrats, and the financial *****s, and turn doping control over to an independent body.

PLEASE let's get rid of this crap for good! It's too good of a sport to let it slide further into disrepute...

 

[BikeCentric]

In this day and age, how hard is it to find actual hard evidence for LA doping?? like a video, instead of relying on hearsay ???

i for one would like lemon/landis/etc to either find hardcore evidence or STFU

About 4 years ago Davide Rebeline was caught on video injecting himself with EPO with 2 other witnesses in the hotel room at the time, one being his wife. The UCI didn't consider this evidence sufficient to sanction him and so he rode on untill he got popped positive for CERA last summer.

Anyway, Lance Armstrong already was 7 positive drug tests, 1 for corticosteroids and 6 for EPO so I don't know what else you need.

 

[Ferminal]

About 4 years ago Davide Rebeline was caught on video injecting himself with EPO with 2 other witnesses in the hotel room at the time, one being his wife. The UCI didn't consider this evidence sufficient to sanction him and so he rode on untill he got popped positive for CERA last summer.

Anyway, Lance Armstrong already was 7 positive drug tests, 1 for corticosteroids and 6 for EPO so I don't know what else you need.

And possibly an 8th.

I'm surprised Floyd hasn't been pushed on that "positive" in any of his interviews.

 

[jayfro72]

Very confusing Joe?? So Landis called Lance and said "hey why don't you say you used drugs also. Even though you didn't get caught we both know you did it". Lance was supposed to say "ok"on the phone or "I'll think about it". WTF. Why would Lance admit to something true or not on Landis's time line. Landis wrote a book and spent years until he came to terms with his mistakes. Landis forcing peoples hand is absurd. Fingon was able to talk as he nears his death bed. Lance may have violated many rules but the mechanism used to catch him didn't work. Landis's not getting a job or race entry should play a part as well as Lance's I too busy for your BS right now. I can see where Flyod was at the end of his rope. If he thinks that his special knowledge of some sh-it Lance pulled is the source of his ills he is dumber than anybody could think. I know guys as far back as Alpha Romeo,Crest and Wheaties who said they used way,way after their careers were over and the context of their admissions was at the right time for them. More important it was not don't ala Jose Conseco so you can sell a book or feather your nest with 40g's from 60 Minutes. Floyd failed as a bike racer,husband,son,friend.team mate and role model. I hope his new career as do gooder and policeman work out better. Landis should have called Planckaert or Parkin for some advise about profit from a life with and without mistakes.

Sadly for Lance (and others) this is evolving way beyond Floyd, or any time line Floyd has layed out.

 

[ABRABR]

Financial controls = doping controls

Disgustingly interesting stuff... Get rid of the bureaucrats, and the financial *****s, and turn doping control over to an independent body.

PLEASE let's get rid of this crap for good! It's too good of a sport to let it slide further into disrepute...

IMHO what it will take is to eliminate financial rewards for good riding. Simple as that. Think about it, it's not just the big heros doping, it's the little guys. Landis doping his whole career? He was working for Lance most of the time. He wasn't getting fame or the pride of winning, he wasn't getting ad contracts, but how much was he getting paid just to do that support riding, how important for his earnings ability was it that he rode faster than the other middle of the pack guys and so got to ride the TDF and stay on the team?

Look, if drugs could make you good at basketball every college kid in the nation would be snorting them right and left. UCI cyclists don't make that level of money, but they do get big six figure salaries that there's no way they'd get outside of cycling. And that's the problem. That's the motivation right there.

A fixed, reasonable-level salary for all pro team members would eliminate this universal motivating factor. Say $100K + expenses, compensating somewhat for the travel requirements. You're not going to stop the top-of-the-top guys who are willing to sell their souls for fame and marketing contracts, but that WILL stop the rank and file, since there won't be that financial motivation. Sure, they wouldn't earn $100K working at the LBS, but neither would they have to travel and train, risk crashes, etc.. How many are going to be willing to pollute themselves in addition to get that 100K?

And once you've toned down the rank and file, the performance differences to the ego/fame-driven champions who can't resist the stuff will become that much more obvious. It will become even harder than it is now to allay suspicion when you're doing well.

I doubt this will ever happen, but with the relative money involved on the two sides now, the biotech arms race can have only one victor.

 

[BikeCentric]

IMHO what it will take is to eliminate financial rewards for good riding. Simple as that. Think about it, it's not just the big heros doping, it's the little guys. Landis doping his whole career? He was working for Lance most of the time. He wasn't getting fame or the pride of winning, he wasn't getting ad contracts, but how much was he getting paid just to do that support riding, how important for his earnings ability was it that he rode faster than the other middle of the pack guys and so got to ride the TDF and stay on the team?

Look, if drugs could make you good at basketball every college kid in the nation would be snorting them right and left. UCI cyclists don't make that level of money, but they do get big six figure salaries that there's no way they'd get outside of cycling. And that's the problem. That's the motivation right there.

A fixed, reasonable-level salary for all pro team members would eliminate this universal motivating factor. Say $100K + expenses, compensating somewhat for the travel requirements. You're not going to stop the top-of-the-top guys who are willing to sell their souls for fame and marketing contracts, but that WILL stop the rank and file, since there won't be that financial motivation. Sure, they wouldn't earn $100K working at the LBS, but neither would they have to travel and train, risk crashes, etc.. How many are going to be willing to pollute themselves in addition to get that 100K?

And once you've toned down the rank and file, the performance differences to the ego/fame-driven champions who can't resist the stuff will become that much more obvious. It will become even harder than it is now to allay suspicion when you're doing well.

I doubt this will ever happen, but with the relative money involved on the two sides now, the biotech arms race can have only one victor.

That will not work. Guys dope as amateurs right now. Ask Leipheimer or Leogrande why they doped to win USA amateur crit nationals. There are fatty Masters retards that dope in my District. It's the human condition. Some people want (need?) to be the alpha dog, even in a small scrubby pack.

 

[ABRABR]

That will not work. Guys dope as amateurs right now. Ask Leipheimer or Leogrande why they doped to win USA amateur crit nationals. There are fatty Masters retards that dope in my District. It's the human condition. Some people want (need?) to be the alpha dog, even in a small scrubby pack.

But most of them probably dope so they can become pros (and earn beaucoup $ for cycling). Take that motivation away and you change everything. Yes, everyone wants to be alpha dog, but not so many have the ability to do it, doped or not. You can never control that, but if you take away the financial reward, it not only reduces the motivation for the rank and file, but it also means there's a heck of a lot less $ available for cyclists to pay doctors to develop clever doping test work-arounds (at risk to their own careers). The whole equation is changed.

 

[irritated_cycling_fan]

Dreaming if you think it will change things

I think a lot of you are deluding yourselves. Even if Armstrong is found guilty on every single accusation that has been publicized, talked about or dreamed up by people here, it's not going magically clean up cycling. For any of you who believe it will just review the Festina mess. Did that make cycling any cleaner? No and there were well known cyclists caught up in that and some even went to jail. Athletes are going to dope. Not all of them but likely all the ones for whom winning is everything. Coaches are giving steroids to kids in jr high! High school athletes are trying to make themselves look better than their competition for that college scholarship. Pros want to stand out to get more money or keep up with the younger people coming up. It's never going to be just about the money. All that taking one big name down is going to change is the verbiage of groups like the UCI and the ASO claiming things are now so much better. It isn't going to change anything.

Reality is, for all the mouthing off that the French and the ASO do, they're the biggest hypocrites of them all. Again, look at the Festina scandal. Richard Virenque did much as Landis did originally - he lied, said he was innocent and even wrote a book about it. His teammates served 6 month sentences. Later he confessed and paid a paltry fine. Did he lose any of his King of the Mountains jerseys? No. Did he lose a place in any of the record books in any French race (or any race at all?). No. Virenque was racing again in 2001 and 2002 - for a French team (Cofidis) and is considered a French hero. In 2002, while the ASO and French newspapers were ripping LA to shreds, Virenque was being adored and worshiped for winning the day on Mount Ventoux. In 2008 the ASO refused to permit the Astana team into their races because of riders doping the previous year, even though there was all new management and riders (and no LA). Festina 'reorganized' themselves after the 1998 mess and not only kept a team in the Tour for the next few years but has remained a prominent sponsor the whole time.

The truth is the organizations don't really care who's doping (except possibly AFLD - as long as they're not catching a French rider) as long as they don't get caught. Once caught everyone makes a big deal and says how it will clean up the sport and aren't they just setting an example for every other sport there?

Taking Armstrong down will only accomplish the same as it is right now; giving the media stories to go on with for years, making the cycling forums world over explode but not actually talking about 'cycling', making some US government officials look golden so they get a lot of press and can justify huge pay increases and the UCI, ASO, AFLD, WADA and every other group having any relation to anti-doping patting themselves on the back for catching the 'ba***rd who made their sport look bad. Actually changing the sport? Won't make a difference.

FYI - before all the anti-LA people jump down my throat; I'm not saying he shouldn't be taken down if he's guilty, he should. I'm just saying those who think it will change anything are deluding themselves.

 

[callac]

m just saying those who think it will change anything are deluding themselves.

One can only hope. If that wouldn't clean up cycling (at least for the largest part...), then it's a lost cause.

For any of you who believe it will just review the Festina mess. Did that make cycling any cleaner?

I believe it really did make French cycling cleaner. A lot cleaner.
A "Festina Affair" for LA would at least clean US cycling, but I believe the scale of a "LA Affair" would be a lot lot broader than the Festina Affair, and thus, hopefully do a much wider cleaning.

 

[RTMcFadden]

That will not work. Guys dope as amateurs right now. Ask Leipheimer or Leogrande why they doped to win USA amateur crit nationals. There are fatty Masters retards that dope in my District. It's the human condition. Some people want (need?) to be the alpha dog, even in a small scrubby pack.

Their need to be the big fish is so over-riding that they go in search of a smaller pond. That's so funny. Pathetic, but funny.

 

[Animal]

I think a lot of you are deluding yourselves. Even if Armstrong is found guilty on every single accusation that has been publicized, talked about or dreamed up by people here, it's not going magically clean up cycling.

Another confabulating schizophrenic.

 

[Race Radio]

I think a lot of you are deluding yourselves. Even if Armstrong is found guilty on every single accusation that has been publicized, talked about or dreamed up by people here, it's not going magically clean up cycling. For any of you who believe it will just review the Festina mess. Did that make cycling any cleaner? No and there were well known cyclists caught up in that and some even went to jail. Athletes are going to dope. Not all of them but likely all the ones for whom winning is everything. Coaches are giving steroids to kids in jr high! High school athletes are trying to make themselves look better than their competition for that college scholarship. Pros want to stand out to get more money or keep up with the younger people coming up. It's never going to be just about the money. All that taking one big name down is going to change is the verbiage of groups like the UCI and the ASO claiming things are now so much better. It isn't going to change anything.

Reality is, for all the mouthing off that the French and the ASO do, they're the biggest hypocrites of them all. Again, look at the Festina scandal. Richard Virenque did much as Landis did originally - he lied, said he was innocent and even wrote a book about it. His teammates served 6 month sentences. Later he confessed and paid a paltry fine. Did he lose any of his King of the Mountains jerseys? No. Did he lose a place in any of the record books in any French race (or any race at all?). No. Virenque was racing again in 2001 and 2002 - for a French team (Cofidis) and is considered a French hero. In 2002, while the ASO and French newspapers were ripping LA to shreds, Virenque was being adored and worshiped for winning the day on Mount Ventoux. In 2008 the ASO refused to permit the Astana team into their races because of riders doping the previous year, even though there was all new management and riders (and no LA). Festina 'reorganized' themselves after the 1998 mess and not only kept a team in the Tour for the next few years but has remained a prominent sponsor the whole time.

You must not have spent much time in France.

The ASO banned Virenque, the UCI forced them to allow him to race. He is considered a joke in France and is often a punchline on French TV. His doping denial have entered the French lexicon similar to "I did not have sex with that woman"

 

[hrotha]

You must not have spent much time in France.

The ASO banned Virenque, the UCI forced them to allow him to race. He is considered a joke in France and is often a punchline on French TV. His doping denial have entered the French lexicon similar to "I did not have sex with that woman"

I thought he had gained back some of that respect and affection in his Domo/Quick Step days, even if he remained the **** of many jokes, but I've never been to France for any significant length of time and I don't even speak French.

 

[zealot66]

I originally got interested in the sport because of Armstrong. I have always enjoyed watching him ride. But having been involved in a professional sport prior that PED's were a norm, I had no illusions about him being clean. People do what they have to do to win because if they dont, someone else will. To me, Im not suprised at all at Floyd. It was going to break at some point. Lance held an iron grip through money, intimidation and a chance at glory for years. He has also thrown innumerable people under the bus that displeased him. From his wife on down. Sooner or later, someone he burned was going to blow the thing wide open. Its the law of averages and human nature.

His biggest mistake was coming back to cycling. He had nothing to gain except ego and money. Both of which he is likely to lose more of than had he stayed retired. The real losers are the poor people who LIVEstrong.

Im glad that I am at a point being a fan of cycling that I enjoy the Sport and other personalities and realize there are other people who ride bicycles besides Lance Armstrong.

One last thing, hopefully, the dam bursts and the youngsters coming up wont have to make that choice between living a lie or never being able to compete.

 

[Deagol]

But most of them probably dope so they can become pros (and earn beaucoup $ for cycling). Take that motivation away and you change everything. ........

Some people will dope just so they can “win” at their category level, with no hope or even desire to become pro. Some of these dopers are career/family men past their prime with no intentions of leaving their real jobs. Some dope for the feeling (albeit undeserved) of besting their peers. It’s crazy how into racing a lot of people are around here and the level of seriousness that people exhibit, considering that this is just a hobby for most of us.

 

[Berzin]

I am looking for a link to the full Landis interview.

All I've found on the ABC Nightline webpage are excerpts.

Anyone know where I can see the video in it's entirety?

 

[Bike Opera]

I am looking for a link to the full Landis interview.

All I've found on the ABC Nightline webpage are excerpts.

Anyone know where I can see the video in it's entirety?

This is the best I could find. Recorded in 2 segments without the last 2 minutes of the ending sequence with Frankie's wife.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/07/abc-nightline-interview-with-floyd.html

 

[Berzin]

Thanks, Bike Opera.