Landis Attacks Vaughters

[9000ft]

I'm confused. Has Floyd's sainthood status been restored? Or is this just diluting the focus on destroying the evil one? Things just happen so quickly these days.

 

[Chuffy]

Looks as though Wigans can't fight his own battles, so he sends in his wife to yap on Twitter in his defense.

Yeah, she should know her place and only speak when ordered. FFS...

So the gist of all this is that Landis is having a pop at Vaughters because JV almost certainly doped back in his USPS days and Landis is p*ssed because he thinks Wiggy got a free pass on his blood numbers when Floyd's numbers looks the same?

Sorry, but that's pretty thin gruel. Not that it'll stop the Clinic from turning it into a five course meal with coffee and cigars.

 

[Maxiton]

If Vaughters/Slipstream are another USPS it would be a near death knell for cycling as far those who follow the sport and are anti doping are concerned.

but it would not be surprising. his riders are not outspoken about anti doping as i feel they should be, but maybe because that would effect business.

Yeah. I try to maintain a pragmatic view of doping in cycling, but if this turned out to be the case, my interest in the sport would probably wane. At the very least I'd become a total fanboy of the Armstrong/Pantani era, because at least they kept the noise about "riding clean" to a minimum - proclaiming it only when cornered.

 

[sniper]

some should focus more on the message rather than on the messenger.

Of course Floyd is damaged by his own history. His current statements and acting will always be mirrored against what he did in the recent past. But the guy has had several years in which to shape a solid insider view of what's going on in cycling, and is now spelling it out to a wider audience.

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah. I try to maintain a pragmatic view of doping in cycling, but if this turned out to be the case, my interest in the sport would probably wane. At the very least I'd become a total fanboy of the Armstrong/Pantani era, because at least they kept the noise about "riding clean" to a minimum - proclaiming it only when cornered.

me i'd go back to watching pre epo era stuff and forget about everything after that.

 

[TexPat]

I suspect that Flandis is off the reservation because something has happened to end his False Claims lawsuit. His behavior has changed, and it no longer appears that his message is being crafted by someone else.

I don't think Floyd is wrong in doing this at all. Expose the hypocrisy. Force transparency.
And, "off the reservation" is rather racist BroDeal.

 

[hrotha]

me i'd go back to watching pre epo era stuff and forget about everything after that.

I'd keep watching, but I'd become so cynical I'd bite my tongue by accident eventually and poison myself. And I'd cheer and celebrate whenever someone went down.

Wait a second, the latter already happens.

 

[maltiv]

Unlike the Armstrong case, Landis has no sort of proof here and it doesn't seem like he has seen anything suspicious himself. I would have been a lot more concerned if he had some plausible story as well, but as long as he bases this on nothing but the fact that JV doped, which he has more or less admitted, then there's nothing in it. Ultimately I think Landis is just angered by Wiggins' comments, which is perfectly understandable.

 

[andy1234]

http://www.versus.com/blogs/the-experts-opinion/the-inside-story-of-matt-whites-firing/

Looks like Landis is now going after Vaughters and Wiggins. Calling for Vaughters to be suspended from cycling and claiming Wiggins' 2009 TDF blood profile is similar to his in 2006. I'm starting to be a bit confused what Landis' priorities are now.

WTF does Landis know about blood profiles?
Armstrong must be delighted with this latest turn of events. Landis is doing a nice job of damaging his own reputation all by himself.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't think Floyd is wrong in doing this at all. Expose the hypocrisy. Force transparency.
And, "off the reservation" is rather racist BroDeal.

Only to people who are looking for any reason at all to get offended, and those people will always find a reason no matter what you do or say. So F them and their politically correct tears of faux oppression that would reduce all language to a boring blandness.

 

[Benotti69]

Unlike the Armstrong case, Landis has no sort of proof here and it doesn't seem like he has seen anything suspicious himself. I would have been a lot more concerned if he had some plausible story as well, but as long as he bases this on nothing but the fact that JV doped, which he has more or less admitted, then there's nothing in it. Ultimately I think Landis is just angered by Wiggins' comments, which is perfectly understandable.

these guys all know what's going on in each others camps/teams

remember the text messaging between JV and Frankie Andreu about Uniballer/Hog emptying Landis's blood down the sink during the 2004 (not 95 as i originally wrote) TdF cause he signed with Phonak....

edit 2004 not 95 my bad. i meant 05 but wrote 95 but as has been pointed out later it was 2004.

 

[sniper]

Unlike the Armstrong case, Landis has no sort of proof here and it doesn't seem like he has seen anything suspicious himself. I would have been a lot more concerned if he had some plausible story as well, but as long as he bases this on nothing but the fact that JV doped, which he has more or less admitted, then there's nothing in it. Ultimately I think Landis is just angered by Wiggins' comments, which is perfectly understandable.

I think Landis bases his accusations on years of experience.
He's the Donny Brasco of cycling.

 

[flicker]

I think Landis bases his accusations on years of experience.
He's the Donny Brasco of cycling.

True but what is the point, he is coming from a negative place.

 

[MacRoadie]

Armstrong must be delighted with this latest turn of events. Landis is doing a nice job of damaging his own reputation all by himself.

You're just never going to let go of that hope that Landis is the key to the case against Armstrong, are you...

 

[hrotha]

these guys all know what's going on in each others camps/teams

remember the text messaging between JV and Frankie Andreu about Uniballer/Hog emptying Landis's blood down the sink during the 95 TdF cause he signed with Phonak....

Did Landis stay in touch with them after 2006?

 

[andy1234]

these guys all know what's going on in each others camps/teams..

No they don't, especially ex riders with Landis reputation.

 

[Race Radio]

Perhaps the Title of the article is referring to the possibility that Lowe was not the only Garmin rider to visit El Gato? It is funny to read Wigan's recent comments, complete 180 from 4 years ago.

If you were reading something about doping in the sport and saw these comments

I'm not a big believer in media solving problems

speaking out re radios may change that reality. Only better science and solid actions, not words, change reality re doping

Your first thoughts would be Bruyneel, Fabiani, Riis.....nope, that is from JV. The guy who built his team with the willing participation of the media now no longer thinks they are part of the solution. Inviting Paul Kimmage and Joe Lindsey to room with the team and vouch for you is fine, talking to Sport Illustrated does nothing?

It appears that JV wants it both ways.....or, like Landis says, is hiding something.

 

[ergmonkey]

Unlike the Armstrong case, Landis has no sort of proof here and it doesn't seem like he has seen anything suspicious himself. I would have been a lot more concerned if he had some plausible story as well, but as long as he bases this on nothing but the fact that JV doped, which he has more or less admitted, then there's nothing in it. Ultimately I think Landis is just angered by Wiggins' comments, which is perfectly understandable.

I agree that it seems premature for Landis to be taking shots at JV in the press if he can't offer the sort of specificity he has offered regarding the USPS/Lance allegations.

However, ignoring the particular Landis allegations for a moment, I do think this incident with Matt White and Trent Lowe must, at the very least, make people question JV's now standard operating procedure of creating the ultimate "clean team" out of guys who spent formative years of their careers at big doping programs. Even if JV is 100% committed to the clean life, does he really believe that none of his chosen riders and staff will slip up? I am not suggesting simply "once a doper, always a doper;" rather, my point is simply that I expect JV to take an increasing amount of heat for his team composition as this story unfolds. Here's an incomplete list of the building blocks of Slipstream:

Current Riders and Management
Zabriskie (USPS; CSC)
CVV (USPS; CSC; Liberty Seguros)
Millar (Convicted Doper; Cofidis; Re-born at Suanier Duval)
Hesjedal (Phonak)
JV himself (USPS; as close as you can get to confessing to doping without actually confessing)

Former Riders
Hunter (Phonak)
Creed (USPS; confessed doper)

Failures at Slipstream
Lowe
White (as DS)
Zirbel (demonstrates failure in Slipstream's pre-signature research of riders)

This proves nothing; but there may well be some explaining to do if JV wants fans to continue to believe in Slipstream.

 

[Mambo95]

To be fair, guys like Merckx and LeMond were top junior pursuiters because they were top junior riders at everything.

That is quite different, I would argue, from adult riders who began by focusing more or less exclusively on the pursuit (think Boardman, McGee, Wiggins). I'm not suggesting that the transformation from pursuit rider to GT rider is impossible, but I do think that comparing Wiggins to obvious natural GC talents like Merckx and Lemond is not particularly helpful.

McGee came 8th in the Giro and Boardman came 2nd in the Dauphine, so they could both climb a bit when they put their mind to it.

 

[andy1234]

You're just never going to let go of that hope that Landis is the key to the case against Armstrong, are you...

I don't hope for anything, I simply don't care one way or the other.
Simply stating a fact. Landis is exposing himself to scrutiny over his motives with Wiggins and, by Proxy, Armstrong.

 

[Altitude]

I thought we were legalising doping. Now he wants Vaughters suspended for participating in doping? God he's insane.

 

[Benotti69]

Did Landis stay in touch with them after 2006?

why not? Hesjedal as on phonak with Landis and CVV, JV, Zabriskie and Creed all on USPS with Landis. why would he not stay friends?

he didn't **** in their soup as they want a clean sport

 

[Polish]

Floyd's latest e-mail claims that JV admitted to Tygart that he doped.
BFD. Old news.

C'mon, JV has admitted to doping "wink wink nudge nudge" long ago to anyone paying attention. Mount Ventoux blah blah blah..

Of course Tygart knows.
I mean he BETTER know, he is the Head of the USADA lol.

But you got to wonder what Novitzky, chief investigator in the Balco Scandal, feels about Floyd's latest e-mail yikes.

 

[Digger]

I thought we were legalising doping. Now he wants Vaughters suspended for participating in doping? God he's insane.

He's pointing out the hypocrisy but maybe that was lost on you.

 

[ergmonkey]

McGee came 8th in the Giro and Boardman came 2nd in the Dauphine, so they could both climb a bit when they put their mind to it.

Like I said, I don't argue that going from the pursuit to grand tour GC riding is impossible. The McGee and Boardman comparisons are much more relevant in this instance than the performances of Merckx and LeMond. That was my only point.

I think a lot of the posters here, though, look at McGee's and Boardman's GC efforts and think "failed attempt." And there's probably some truth in that. I remember McGee's Giro effort very well, as I was rooting for him all the way through (I always liked his style on and off the bike and I wanted one of Madiot's riders to get a GC result, as well). But, I have to admit that McGee was never totally convincing in the mountains. I never imagined he would go Top 5 in the Tour, especially not after that Giro bid.

The rides of McGee and Boardman really don't come close to Wiggins' achievement in the 2009 Tour, I think. That's where some of the skepticism comes from, most likely. Still, I don't like the idea of criticizing Wiggins (or Armstrong, for that matter) based solely on an "unlikely transformation." I think it's much more fair and convincing to forward arguments based on the blood values and other available evidence against the riders (with there presently being much more of such evidence against Lance than against Wiggins).