Last world tour spot to be decided between Saxo and Shimano?

[El Pistolero]

Kittel was their main guy for the Tour and he got sick. Considering that Kittel wasn't able to do anything, Veelers did alright in the first couple sprints.

But it will be difficult for them to contend for stages in at least one of the GT's. Even more difficult if they decide to send both Kittel and Degenkolb to the Tour.

That's their problem, one rider gets sick(and this is very common during a GT) and they're nowhere.

 

[Pentacycle]

That's their problem, one rider gets sick(and this is very common during a GT) and they're nowhere.

Then what has OPQS done in the Tour exactly? Leipheimer had his mind elsewhere and the whole team goes clueless. Also Devenyns' results in breakaways weren't even as good as Veelers' in the sprints. Gretsch and Chavanel did pretty similar TT's as well. I think Argos and OPQS will have pretty similar Tour teams, together with Lotto they'll have to do the sprinting. If one of their sprinters is ill, it's mostly game over for them.

 

[El Pistolero]

Then what has OPQS done in the Tour exactly? Leipheimer had his mind elsewhere and the whole team goes clueless. Also Devenyns' results in breakaways weren't even as good as Veelers' in the sprints. Gretsch and Chavanel did pretty similar TT's as well. I think Argos and OPQS will have pretty similar Tour teams, together with Lotto they'll have to do the sprinting. If one of their sprinters is ill, it's mostly game over for them.

Are you really comparing Argos to OPQS? OPQS had a very successful season up to the Tour because their team had depth. Argos only has 2 riders that can win races.

Tony Martin: time trials and stage races.
Mark Cavendish: sprints.
Tom Boonen: cobbled classics.
Sylvain Chavanel: cobbled classics and stage hunter in GT(s).

And many more riders from OPQS who are capable of winning a couple of races each season.

Yeah, really comparable there.

But why are you bringing OPQS up anyway? We're talking about Argos.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

But it will be difficult for them to contend for stages in at least one of the GT's. Even more difficult if they decide to send both Kittel and Degenkolb to the Tour.

I think I've heard recently that 2013 only Degenkolb will do the Tour. That leaves Kittel for the Vuelta and either of them or/and RJvR for the Giro. So I see no problem there. They will be able to win stages in all three GTs.

I really don't get all the hate here for Argos. They have won countless races and will do so in the future. They have signed some of the most interesting U23 and CT talents. They are absolutely scandal-free so far. What's not to like about them?

 

[Netserk]

I think I've heard recently that 2013 only Degenkolb will do the Tour. That leaves Kittel for the Vuelta and either of them or/and RJvR for the Giro. So I see no problem there. They will be able to win stages in all three GTs.

I really don't get all the hate here for Argos. They have won countless races and will do so in the future. They have signed some of the most interesting U23 and CT talents. They are absolutely scandal-free so far. What's not to like about them?

Boring as sh!t.

(although I liked Degenkolb at Tours, and I think I saw some action from Koen De Kort at Dwars door Vlaanderen)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Guys, I picked on GreenEdge because they have an almost totally sprints-oriented roster, with only a couple of guys for hilly and medium mountain events to temper that. I actually am a fan of Simon Clarke's and think he could, no, should be better than Gerrans in a couple of years. Hell, this last offseason I was claiming he was already better than Gerrans, but I was wrong because Gerrans rediscovered some of his nose for victory from the Cervélo days. I don't like Gerrans, but at least this year he's turned into the rider he should be, rather than a guy who sits in the pack, comes 7th in the uphill sprint at the end of an Ardennes race and then gets called a major threat for the win because of it.

But this is part of why they were named.

País Vasco 2012
Best finisher: Daryl Impey (63rd at 26'48)
Teams classification: 19th and last (at 1'22'45")

Giro d'Italia 2012
Best finisher: Fumiyuki Beppu (121st at 4'06'56")
Number of finishers: 4
Teams classification: 22nd and last (at 10'22'40")

Dauphiné 2012
Best finisher: Pieter Weening (11th at 3'35")
Teams classification: 18th (at 1'09'49")

Tour de Suisse 2012
Best finisher: Allan Davis (58th at 50'07")
Number of finishers: 2
Teams classification: DNF (not enough finishers)

Tour de France 2012
Best finisher: Pieter Weening (72nd at 2'17'30")
Teams classification: 21st (at 5'39'29")*

*for reference, Argos-Shimano were a further 2 hours down and their best GC rider was Koen de Kort, 103rd and more than 40 minutes behind Weening)

GreenEdge were not visible in hilly races except for those intermediate enough for Gerrans or Albasini to make an impact, or those in the Vuelta when Clarke was compiling his GPM points. They were otherwise an irrelevance, with few capable stagehunters in anything too mountainous, and no potential GC candidates. This rendered their participation at races like País Vasco utterly pointless.

Argos already contribute next to nothing to any race that they wouldn't already be invited to anyway. All of the races that Argos can contribute to, they already get invited to (and they already get invited to a bunch that they do nothing at too). It absolutely is Euskaltel-at-Roubaix level idiotic. Some people say that Euskaltel really ought to be a ProContinental team, and they're probably right. But anybody who claims that about Euskaltel should also be willing to state the same about Argos and, depending on how visceral their complaints are, GreenEdge too.

 

[Pentacycle]

Are you really comparing Argos to OPQS? OPQS had a very successful season up to the Tour because their team had depth. Argos only has 2 riders that can win races.

Tony Martin: time trials and stage races.
Mark Cavendish: sprints.
Tom Boonen: cobbled classics.
Sylvain Chavanel: cobbled classics and stage hunter in GT(s).

And many more riders from OPQS who are capable of winning a couple of races each season.

Yeah, really comparable there.

But why are you bringing OPQS up anyway? We're talking about Argos.

You were talking grand tours and people getting sick/injured, not about the classics. GT-wise OPQS wasn't very good.
I'm also curious about Janse van Rensburg, he's got classics potential as well. Argos have several young guys who have yet to show their full potential.

 

[El Pistolero]

You were talking grand tours and people getting sick/injured, not about the classics. GT-wise OPQS wasn't very good.
I'm also curious about Janse van Rensburg, he's got classics potential as well. Argos have several young guys who have yet to show their full potential.

People can get sick during the classics as well. I was speaking about GTs in particular, but really Argos lacks depth all across the board, not just in GTs. And you also ignored the fact they have Cavendish know who has won multiple Tour stages since 2008. Tony Martin is also a lot better than anything Argos has for the time trials.

A lot of teams have several young guys with potential. I don't know the average age of the OPQS team, but it will be very low.

 

[Afrank]

I think I've heard recently that 2013 only Degenkolb will do the Tour. That leaves Kittel for the Vuelta and either of them or/and RJvR for the Giro. So I see no problem there. They will be able to win stages in all three GTs.

I really don't get all the hate here for Argos. They have won countless races and will do so in the future. They have signed some of the most interesting U23 and CT talents. They are absolutely scandal-free so far. What's not to like about them?

I think I heard somewhere that Kittel and Degenkolb might both do the Tour, I might be wrong about that though.

I'd say some of the hate for Argos probably has to do with, like Netserk said, them being kind of a boring team. And also partly due to Argos being in competition with Saxo for the WT spot before it was announced. Personally I've got no problem with them, I think they deserve to be in the world tour, Degenkolb is a great talent, and I hope they can develop Barguil and their other young talents.