- Apr 16, 2009
- 17,598
- 6,853
- 28,180
- Jul 25, 2012
- 12,967
- 1,970
- 25,680
Stage should have been cancelled and that should be the rule. Maybe this time they’ll bother to define it.
- Jun 29, 2015
- 1,112
- 15
- 5,510
Who knows what would have happened, but it doesn’t matter. They had to stop it, clearly.
Maybe the story isn’t finished yet though. Tomorrow isn’t easy.
Maybe the story isn’t finished yet though. Tomorrow isn’t easy.
- Jun 7, 2011
- 4,280
- 2,836
- 21,180
- May 5, 2009
- 1,904
- 440
- 11,580
Climber standings:
1 ROMAIN BARDET 86 PTS
2 TIM WELLENS 74 PTS
3 DAMIANO CARUSO 67 PTS
4 SIMON YATES 59 PTS
5 EGAN BERNAL 58 PTS
It can be very interesting. Bernal could take this too with 40 points in Val Thorens
1 ROMAIN BARDET 86 PTS
2 TIM WELLENS 74 PTS
3 DAMIANO CARUSO 67 PTS
4 SIMON YATES 59 PTS
5 EGAN BERNAL 58 PTS
It can be very interesting. Bernal could take this too with 40 points in Val Thorens
- Jul 15, 2019
- 251
- 51
- 3,130
Bernal was the most likely winner anyway, and if the storm did happen right then just before we saw it on TV there was nothing else the organisers could have done, but this feels a very unsatisfactory way to win the Tour.
PCS has Bernal, Alaphilippe, Thomas, Kruijswijk, Buchmann, Landa, Uran, Quintana, Barguil, Valverde as the top 10 on GC, no time gaps stated. No idea where they've got that from or how they've got that order for 6-10.
PCS has Bernal, Alaphilippe, Thomas, Kruijswijk, Buchmann, Landa, Uran, Quintana, Barguil, Valverde as the top 10 on GC, no time gaps stated. No idea where they've got that from or how they've got that order for 6-10.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,246
- 28,180
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
I mean, annulling the stage entirely and putting the GC back as it was before the day would be mind-blowingly artificial, as well as open them up to accusations of home bias, plus of course Bernal has made a big effort today that would be completely worthless if they annulled the stage. Alaphilippe may have been gaining time on the descent, but it was obviously ludicrous to continue the stage, and there was no other 'line in the road' that could reasonably have been used on the descent after the summit of the Iseran. Awarding the bonus seconds would have been extremely artificial too, as, as things stand, Simon Yates had no interest in contesting the extra bonus seconds at the summit because they're of no relevance to him, whereas had a stage victory been available, I would not have been surprised to see him outsprint Bernal.
The problem is that, of course, had everybody known at the start of the day that the Iseran would be the stage finish, the race would likely have been a lot different. People might be upset because a potential climactic weekend has been taken away from us, but from that point of view, Pinot leaving the race is probably similarly significant in terms of impact. There will be some quarters who will lament that as ever, it's the big teams that benefit from the lines drawn in incidents like this, recalling Froome being given a time gain after the moto crash and running up the mountain because they took the time from the state of the race when the crash occurred, when an attack had been made that could well have been answered in the totality of the stage; people like Kruijswijk may well argue that their time loss to Bernal would have been unlikely to be as much as it was once the descent and the climb to Tignes was taken into account since they could fight two-on-one against him (although that would be towing Thomas of course), and they may even be right, but there's simply no way to tell. They could just as easily have crashed and had to withdraw from the race. But there's not much that can be done about it. It's not like the Froome/Porte moto crash. It's a natural phenomenon that left the organisers with no choice, and they did as best as they could to reflect what was happening on the road. And therefore, the last reasonable line in the road was the Col de l'Iseran, and it is only right and fair not to award time bonuses to try to minimise the artificiality of drawing the finishing line where not everybody yet knows it will be the finishing line.
Am I disappointed? Yes, of course. But I'd have been more disappointed if they'd awarded time bonuses and pretended that everybody knew this morning that the stage would end on Iseran, and more disappointed had they decided to wipe the stage from the record books and pretend it never happened. Say Alaphilippe lost a minute but no more on Val Thorens tomorrow after being given the post-stage-18 time gaps back today, how would that maillot jaune look in posterity?
Of course, but there is literally nothing that the organisers could do that would lead to a satisfactory and fair outcome, and they've gone for what is probably the least worst.Valv.Piti said:
I mean, annulling the stage entirely and putting the GC back as it was before the day would be mind-blowingly artificial, as well as open them up to accusations of home bias, plus of course Bernal has made a big effort today that would be completely worthless if they annulled the stage. Alaphilippe may have been gaining time on the descent, but it was obviously ludicrous to continue the stage, and there was no other 'line in the road' that could reasonably have been used on the descent after the summit of the Iseran. Awarding the bonus seconds would have been extremely artificial too, as, as things stand, Simon Yates had no interest in contesting the extra bonus seconds at the summit because they're of no relevance to him, whereas had a stage victory been available, I would not have been surprised to see him outsprint Bernal.
The problem is that, of course, had everybody known at the start of the day that the Iseran would be the stage finish, the race would likely have been a lot different. People might be upset because a potential climactic weekend has been taken away from us, but from that point of view, Pinot leaving the race is probably similarly significant in terms of impact. There will be some quarters who will lament that as ever, it's the big teams that benefit from the lines drawn in incidents like this, recalling Froome being given a time gain after the moto crash and running up the mountain because they took the time from the state of the race when the crash occurred, when an attack had been made that could well have been answered in the totality of the stage; people like Kruijswijk may well argue that their time loss to Bernal would have been unlikely to be as much as it was once the descent and the climb to Tignes was taken into account since they could fight two-on-one against him (although that would be towing Thomas of course), and they may even be right, but there's simply no way to tell. They could just as easily have crashed and had to withdraw from the race. But there's not much that can be done about it. It's not like the Froome/Porte moto crash. It's a natural phenomenon that left the organisers with no choice, and they did as best as they could to reflect what was happening on the road. And therefore, the last reasonable line in the road was the Col de l'Iseran, and it is only right and fair not to award time bonuses to try to minimise the artificiality of drawing the finishing line where not everybody yet knows it will be the finishing line.
Am I disappointed? Yes, of course. But I'd have been more disappointed if they'd awarded time bonuses and pretended that everybody knew this morning that the stage would end on Iseran, and more disappointed had they decided to wipe the stage from the record books and pretend it never happened. Say Alaphilippe lost a minute but no more on Val Thorens tomorrow after being given the post-stage-18 time gaps back today, how would that maillot jaune look in posterity?
- Apr 3, 2009
- 12,530
- 8,352
- 28,180
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
Terrible shame about Pinot, I was really hoping he could animate things.
The decision was correct in all repeats. Disappointing, but nothing to criticize here, really quite a simple set of decisions to make.
Terrible shame about Pinot, I was really hoping he could animate things.
The decision was correct in all repeats. Disappointing, but nothing to criticize here, really quite a simple set of decisions to make.
I don't understand why people have an issue with the organisers.
1. The conditions were patently unsafe. So they did the right thing to cancel.
2. It would have been too much ball ache to try to restart the stage when conditions settled down. So they did the right thing by not trying to do that.
3. They had to decide what to do to update GC. The only two realistic or practical options were to fully cancel the stage or to take the time at the handiest spot near the cancellation point. There was a significant amount of racing done already and I think it is way fairer to take that into account. Sure, you could claim that Buchmann, Thomas, etc. were keeping their powder dry for the final climb, but there is just as much of a chance that Bernal would smash them up the last climb. Most of us would expect Ala to gain time on the descent, but we would also expect him to lose time on the climb to Tignes. Overall, I don't see a big issue.
4. Clearly Bernal was racing for the 8 seconds at the top of the Iseran. So he gets them. Clearly Yates, Bernal and Barguil were not racing for the stage win at the top of the Iseran. So they don't get the finish line bonuses.
People love to *** and moan about the ASO and authority figures in general. But any other options on the 4 points above would be more unfair in my view. The organisers were caught with a completely unprecedented situation. And I think they reacted as well as they could to events.
1. The conditions were patently unsafe. So they did the right thing to cancel.
2. It would have been too much ball ache to try to restart the stage when conditions settled down. So they did the right thing by not trying to do that.
3. They had to decide what to do to update GC. The only two realistic or practical options were to fully cancel the stage or to take the time at the handiest spot near the cancellation point. There was a significant amount of racing done already and I think it is way fairer to take that into account. Sure, you could claim that Buchmann, Thomas, etc. were keeping their powder dry for the final climb, but there is just as much of a chance that Bernal would smash them up the last climb. Most of us would expect Ala to gain time on the descent, but we would also expect him to lose time on the climb to Tignes. Overall, I don't see a big issue.
4. Clearly Bernal was racing for the 8 seconds at the top of the Iseran. So he gets them. Clearly Yates, Bernal and Barguil were not racing for the stage win at the top of the Iseran. So they don't get the finish line bonuses.
People love to *** and moan about the ASO and authority figures in general. But any other options on the 4 points above would be more unfair in my view. The organisers were caught with a completely unprecedented situation. And I think they reacted as well as they could to events.
- Jul 25, 2012
- 12,967
- 1,970
- 25,680
The only reasonable line is one everyone knows they are racing to. You either shorten or cancel as far as I’m concerned.
- Jun 10, 2010
- 19,869
- 2,222
- 25,680
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
I don't believe anyone who says they seriously believe cancelling the whole stage would have been the fair and correct thing to do, to be honest. Imagine the uproar.
If you overthink it I'm sure you could come up with scenarios where this would have been unfair, but they'd be very convoluted. For example, if Quintana was in the break today he'd have been caught just like everybody else.
I don't believe anyone who says they seriously believe cancelling the whole stage would have been the fair and correct thing to do, to be honest. Imagine the uproar.
Yes. If they had 20 minutes so close to the actual finish line they wouldn't lose that much during the rest of the stage.thehog said:
If you overthink it I'm sure you could come up with scenarios where this would have been unfair, but they'd be very convoluted. For example, if Quintana was in the break today he'd have been caught just like everybody else.
- May 5, 2009
- 1,904
- 440
- 11,580
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
Well there was still 30% of the stage left. It's not really THAT close.
hrotha said:
Well there was still 30% of the stage left. It's not really THAT close.
- Jul 25, 2012
- 12,967
- 1,970
- 25,680
- Jul 25, 2012
- 12,967
- 1,970
- 25,680
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
I’m pretty sure cancelling times on abandoned stages has happened several times before.hrotha said:
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
- 31,285
- 2
- 22,485
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1
People are not looking for someone to blame they are looking for a fair and equitable solution. The only person to blame is mother nature.
What would you do if this stage was on Saturday? That would but nuts Beral would win by default.
JosephK said:
People are not looking for someone to blame they are looking for a fair and equitable solution. The only person to blame is mother nature.
What would you do if this stage was on Saturday? That would but nuts Beral would win by default.
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