Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 126km

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Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Zoetemelk-fan said:
Jungle Cycle said:
is it impossible to climb Thorens 2x??
Val Thorens is dead end.

So either they should return at the same road to Les Menuires and Moutiers again, which is quite inappropriate.

Or they should take the ski lifts to Méribel-Mottaret.

With this Tour you never know :lol:
There's Col de Rosael, which is a dirt road at almost 3000m which would bring you back to the valley were they started today.

It's one of the great climbs we'll never see on a television screen.
It'll appear in the tour they'll make for Van der Poel in the hopes of breaking the Bernal-supremacy.
 
Re: Re:

Colombianfan said:
Climbing said:
Colombians only wins GT when there is a controversial decision by the organizer! :D
FACTS!
Haha this is funny coming from a Nibali fan, his GT wins have always been the toughest competition ever. :rolleyes: If Bernal is lucky then so was Nibali, they have both had bits of fortune in different ways, Bernal is clearly the strongest climber in the 3rd week he was getting better and better as the race went on. Bernal would have easily took the time he needed he is climbing better than anyone in the final week, Alaphillipe is running on fumes.

Bernal with Paris Nice, Tour de Suisse and probably a TDF is up there with anything Nibali as done in a single year. Infact his year is already better than Nibali has ever done imo, he is just 22 aswell. A little bit of respect for this phenom would be nice. Bernal did not even target the TDF either and is proving to be the best climber in the 3rd week of a GT. Oh and he is beating his own leader, a TDF winner. :D
This is kind of interesting in that Nibali in 2014 and Bernal this year both didn't have beat their toughest possible competition. Contador and Froome crashed out then. Dumoulin and Froome didn't make it to the race this year. Nibali peaked for Giro. And Pinot - who dropped Bernal multiple times - got hurt.

Yes, that's bike racing. But it is also fair to note that while Bernal is looking good this year, it is a course perfect for him and against weak competition. Really hope with more balanced course and Dumoulin back to 100% then we'll get a real test for all the elite riders.
 
Oct 19, 2015
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Re: Re:

GenericBoonenFan said:
Red Rick said:
Zoetemelk-fan said:
Jungle Cycle said:
is it impossible to climb Thorens 2x??
Val Thorens is dead end.

So either they should return at the same road to Les Menuires and Moutiers again, which is quite inappropriate.

Or they should take the ski lifts to Méribel-Mottaret.

With this Tour you never know :lol:
There's Col de Rosael, which is a dirt road at almost 3000m which would bring you back to the valley were they started today.

It's one of the great climbs we'll never see on a television screen.
It'll appear in the tour they'll make for Van der Poel in the hopes of breaking the Bernal-supremacy.
You may try Madeleine (the proper one) before Val Thorens and that wouldn't be that big of a logistics change. Giro did more radical changes due to the weather (2013, Mortirolo this year etc.).
 
Re: Re:

woodburn said:
Colombianfan said:
Climbing said:
Colombians only wins GT when there is a controversial decision by the organizer! :D
FACTS!
Haha this is funny coming from a Nibali fan, his GT wins have always been the toughest competition ever. :rolleyes: If Bernal is lucky then so was Nibali, they have both had bits of fortune in different ways, Bernal is clearly the strongest climber in the 3rd week he was getting better and better as the race went on. Bernal would have easily took the time he needed he is climbing better than anyone in the final week, Alaphillipe is running on fumes.

Bernal with Paris Nice, Tour de Suisse and probably a TDF is up there with anything Nibali as done in a single year. Infact his year is already better than Nibali has ever done imo, he is just 22 aswell. A little bit of respect for this phenom would be nice. Bernal did not even target the TDF either and is proving to be the best climber in the 3rd week of a GT. Oh and he is beating his own leader, a TDF winner. :D
This is kind of interesting in that Nibali in 2014 and Bernal this year both didn't have beat their toughest possible competition. Contador and Froome crashed out then. Dumoulin and Froome didn't make it to the race this year. Nibali peaked for Giro. And Pinot - who dropped Bernal multiple times - got hurt.

Yes, that's bike racing. But it is also fair to note that while Bernal is looking good this year, it is a course perfect for him and against weak competition. Really hope with more balanced course and Dumoulin back to 100% then we'll get a real test for all the elite riders.
Well its stating the obvious you can only beat who turns up. But maybe you overlooked the defending champion? Nibali was immense in 2014. I don't think either Froome or Contador were guaranteed to beat him by the extreme ease with which he won that year. This was during the period Nibali was at his absolute peak. 2013 Giro dominant. Then 2014 TdF.

I agree with more TT, things swing back in favour of Dumoulin or even Roglic but Bernal is just 22, he is going to get better including in TT. High altitude definitely helped him immensely this year.
 
Re: Re:

railxmig said:
GenericBoonenFan said:
Red Rick said:
Zoetemelk-fan said:
Jungle Cycle said:
is it impossible to climb Thorens 2x??
Val Thorens is dead end.

So either they should return at the same road to Les Menuires and Moutiers again, which is quite inappropriate.

Or they should take the ski lifts to Méribel-Mottaret.

With this Tour you never know :lol:
There's Col de Rosael, which is a dirt road at almost 3000m which would bring you back to the valley were they started today.

It's one of the great climbs we'll never see on a television screen.
It'll appear in the tour they'll make for Van der Poel in the hopes of breaking the Bernal-supremacy.
You may try Madeleine (the proper one) before Val Thorens and that wouldn't be that big of a logistics change. Giro did more radical changes due to the weather (2013, Mortirolo this year etc.).
All the radical changes in the 2013 Giro consisted of... removing climbs. ASO is doing to tomorrow's stage what RCS did in 2013 to Tre Cime: keep only the last climb.
 
Hey I can finally add my $.01 (I kept getting "This site can't be reached" (timed out error) message on the forum ?).
IMO:
-Correct decision today.
-Cancelling the entire stage is not an option after that much racing. Plus, a lot of people complain that GC guys only race hard for the final few Ks of the last climb, do we want to punish Bernal for doing what we all want?
-WAY too many 'ifs' in most arguments.

*one 'if' that I will chime in on is "the others would have raced differently if they had known the top was also the finish". BS!! The GC went up the road, all of the other GC guys were riding full gas.
 
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

Gigs_98 said:
This tour went from asolutely epic on the top of the Iseran to complete farce within a few hours. Bernal is now pretty much the tour winner and although he absolutely deserves it, it just doesn't feel right. Instead of the big 6 men battle for the win in the Alps we basically got no battle at all. Let's hope Val Thorens will be entertaining (at least the climb is massively long so it's hard to find a single climb where as much could happen as on this one) but I'm pretty sure the only thing that is gonna happen is Alaphilippe losing his podium. Such a pity what has happened to this amazing tour.
Horrible way to complete what has been a very entertaining race.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
red_flanders said:
For everyone bitching and moaning, I would love to hear about a decision in this situation which would not have resulted in the same amount of bitching and moaning.

Not possible. Incredibly disappointing situation, and the correct call was made in all respects. Stopping was the only choice. Stopping at the l'Iseran was completely sensible and correct.
Stopping at Iseran or cancelling the stage is the only option given how events unfolded. The big issue though is why was the possibility of the stage finishing at Iseran not communicated to the riders while they were on the climb, so that they could adjust their tactics accordingly.

The claims that it happened too quickly are bs. There was a snow plough already there trying to clear the road by the time they were on the descent. The moment it was known that the road was in dodgy condition, the riders should have been told of the possible shortening of the stage.
Was there really time to communicate a change to the riders? Bear in mind that you can't just announce it and expect everyone to immediately understand. Look at what happened with the cancellation of the rest of the stage, no one knew what was happening. Imagine that while the race is still on, it would've been complete chaos. That sort of thing isn't viable at short notice.
 
Ineos is destined to win the TDF - Bernal wasn't even starting the TDF, except he broke his collarbone a week before the Giro - Think he would have struggled up the last climb when you consider he would have to ride the valley by himself, while the chase group had De Plus to ride the valley - It was a 'death or glory' moment by Bernal who was rewarded by freak weather events.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
red_flanders said:
For everyone bitching and moaning, I would love to hear about a decision in this situation which would not have resulted in the same amount of bitching and moaning.

Not possible. Incredibly disappointing situation, and the correct call was made in all respects. Stopping was the only choice. Stopping at the l'Iseran was completely sensible and correct.
Stopping at Iseran or cancelling the stage is the only option given how events unfolded. The big issue though is why was the possibility of the stage finishing at Iseran not communicated to the riders while they were on the climb, so that they could adjust their tactics accordingly.

The claims that it happened too quickly are bs. There was a snow plough already there trying to clear the road by the time they were on the descent. The moment it was known that the road was in dodgy condition, the riders should have been told of the possible shortening of the stage.
So everyone sprints to the top and is wrecked, what if they get the road clear in time? There was no easy solution and everyone moaning has obviously never carried out a dynamic risk assessment under that sort of pressure.
 
Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

I wonder what Thomas is thinking. Don't think he had that tour written off yet before the cancellation but now I can't see ineos not going all in for bernal
 
Re: Re:

ice&fire said:
Climbing said:
Colombians only wins GT when there is a controversial decision by the organizer! :D
FACTS!
Lucho Herrera is the exception. He won the Vuelta after the race leader (Sean Kelly) abandoned with a saddle sore :D
I donot think there was anything controversial in this decision. The stage had to be stopped period. The option was to cancel the entire stage but when the >89 k out of 126.5k is already done and riders have already made an effort, those efforts have to be taken into account. As to whether the downhill part had to accounted, i donot think they could properly account for the each rider's position on the downhill and assign a relative time. So the only option was the clear line of the top of Iseran but that itself took them a long time to do manually.
 
Re:

yaco said:
My only query with the stage cancellation is the decision to give bonus seconds - This is a blunder by the officials.
they wern't stage winner bonus seconds. the 8s bernal got were at the top of that climb anyway, not matter if it was the stage finish or not
 
Re: Re:

Pharazon said:
yaco said:
My only query with the stage cancellation is the decision to give bonus seconds - This is a blunder by the officials.
they wern't stage winner bonus seconds. the 8s bernal got were at the top of that climb anyway, not matter if it was the stage finish or not
Ultimately you shouldn't be awarding bonus seconds on the second last climb because the stage was still in motion and no rider had been informed that the stage would be cancelled Alaphillippe was 90 seconds clear of Bernal at the start of the day - He made 2 min and 10 seconds at the finish of the climb which is 130 seconds - So by my reckoning Bernal should be 40 seconds clear of Alaphalippe and not 48 seconds. And if you look at the stage results - yates is 13 seconds behind Bernal and in fact Yates was not 13 seconds behind at the top of the climb - I suggest you check the stage classifications.
 
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
ice&fire said:
Climbing said:
Colombians only wins GT when there is a controversial decision by the organizer! :D
FACTS!
Lucho Herrera is the exception. He won the Vuelta after the race leader (Sean Kelly) abandoned with a saddle sore :D
What was the controversial decision in the 2016 Vuelta?
To not punt the autobus in Formigal for refusing to even try to make the time cut; riders who missed the time cut went on to win almost all of the remaining stages.

Larry Warbasse then proved himself a complete tool, justifying it by saying that the fans ought to be grateful the péloton organised something for itself, and unite behind refusing to race. Protests were also made that it was about how difficult the race had been, ironic seeing as the péloton had had a rest day four days earlier, a day-off-on-the-bike rolling in 20 minutes behind the break two days earlier (in a stage that the organisers had already taken all the hardest climbing out of) and the stage they soft-pedaled came the day after literally the only proper multi-col stage.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Pharazon said:
yaco said:
My only query with the stage cancellation is the decision to give bonus seconds - This is a blunder by the officials.
they wern't stage winner bonus seconds. the 8s bernal got were at the top of that climb anyway, not matter if it was the stage finish or not
Ultimately you shouldn't be awarding bonus seconds on the second last climb because the stage was still in motion and no rider had been informed that the stage would be cancelled Alaphillippe was 90 seconds clear of Bernal at the start of the day - He made 2 min and 10 seconds at the finish of the climb which is 130 seconds - So by my reckoning Bernal should be 40 seconds clear of Alaphalippe and not 48 seconds. And if you look at the stage results - yates is 13 seconds behind Bernal and in fact Yates was not 13 seconds behind at the top of the climb - I suggest you check the stage classifications.
There were automatic bonuses at the top of Iseran, like the ones Alaphilippe picked up in the first week.

Now, whether you think giving bonus seconds atop climbs is a stupid artificiality introduced to paper over the cracks of poor route design in a desperate bid to entice some racing from a soporific péloton is another question.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
yaco said:
Pharazon said:
yaco said:
My only query with the stage cancellation is the decision to give bonus seconds - This is a blunder by the officials.
they wern't stage winner bonus seconds. the 8s bernal got were at the top of that climb anyway, not matter if it was the stage finish or not
Ultimately you shouldn't be awarding bonus seconds on the second last climb because the stage was still in motion and no rider had been informed that the stage would be cancelled Alaphillippe was 90 seconds clear of Bernal at the start of the day - He made 2 min and 10 seconds at the finish of the climb which is 130 seconds - So by my reckoning Bernal should be 40 seconds clear of Alaphalippe and not 48 seconds. And if you look at the stage results - yates is 13 seconds behind Bernal and in fact Yates was not 13 seconds behind at the top of the climb - I suggest you check the stage classifications.
There were automatic bonuses at the top of Iseran, like the ones Alaphilippe picked up in the first week.

Now, whether you think giving bonus seconds atop climbs is a stupid artificiality introduced to paper over the cracks of poor route design in a desperate bid to entice some racing from a soporific péloton is another question.
The difference is that Alaphalippe attacked on the climb to ultimately win the stage and to hopefully obtain the yellow jersey and there were no landslides - if there happened to be a problem on that particular stage i would expect there would be no bonus seconds.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
yaco said:
Pharazon said:
yaco said:
My only query with the stage cancellation is the decision to give bonus seconds - This is a blunder by the officials.
they wern't stage winner bonus seconds. the 8s bernal got were at the top of that climb anyway, not matter if it was the stage finish or not
Ultimately you shouldn't be awarding bonus seconds on the second last climb because the stage was still in motion and no rider had been informed that the stage would be cancelled Alaphillippe was 90 seconds clear of Bernal at the start of the day - He made 2 min and 10 seconds at the finish of the climb which is 130 seconds - So by my reckoning Bernal should be 40 seconds clear of Alaphalippe and not 48 seconds. And if you look at the stage results - yates is 13 seconds behind Bernal and in fact Yates was not 13 seconds behind at the top of the climb - I suggest you check the stage classifications.
There were automatic bonuses at the top of Iseran, like the ones Alaphilippe picked up in the first week.

Now, whether you think giving bonus seconds atop climbs is a stupid artificiality introduced to paper over the cracks of poor route design in a desperate bid to entice some racing from a soporific péloton is another question.
Yeah, such horrible design, nobody would have raced the race as entertainingly as they dif if it had not been for those bonus seconds.

I know you have all your theories about how everything should be and you will probably never admit to being wrong, but this year's Tour has been awesome and there has been plenty of terrain to work with, which a lot of riders have done. Sadly, the Alps become ruined but that's not the organisers' fault.
 

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