Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 126km

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

lol it would be totally ridiculous if they annul this stage, or half the times. It was clear Alaphillippe was gonna crack hard!!!!

Partly true - he caught the Thomas group on the decent and the last climb wasn't as hard. He could have limited his losses. So not sure what time they should give.

Remember Froome on Ventoux on the motocycle crash stage. They gave him the same time as Molloma.

By caught do you mean was slowly taking seconds back on the descent?

Decreased the gap from 1:09 to 0:53 (hand-measured). So maybe (if unlikely) he would have caught them. And the last climb would have been way easier. Anyway i think he will lose again a good chunk of time tomorrow.

 

[canarydan23]

Re: Re:

Stop with the F1 crap. You can't just make up rules on the fly.

Apart from the fact that they are doing exactly that?!

They have to rule something, but halve time gaps or things like that?

Someone referenced the Froome motorbike Ventoux incident earlier, they literally just made up finish times for people in that incident.

 

[houtdffan]

letour.fr is saying no stage win today, but times count.

Bernal does not get the win today, but he is leading the race now

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/part-ii---road-races.pdf?sfvrsn=448068eb_30

They can choose ;-)

Right before Bernal's attack.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

ES just saying race organisers to take time at top of Iseran.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Stop with the F1 crap. You can't just make up rules on the fly.

Apart from the fact that they are doing exactly that?!

They have to rule something, but halve time gaps or things like that?

Someone referenced the Froome motorbike Ventoux incident earlier, they literally just made up finish times for people in that incident.

But why in the world would you do that since you pretty easily can get the times on Iseran?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What do the actual rules say if a stage is neutralized? Time gaps at a certain point before or no time gaps at all?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/part-ii---road-races.pdf?sfvrsn=448068eb_30

They can choose ;-)

Thank you!

Finally some actual quality information here.

So can they actually take time gaps from the top of Iseran?

It seems like the option is to take time gaps from the moment the race is neutralized, or cancel the stage. The thing about mountain sprint is only referring to KOM points isn't it?

 

[Samamba]

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

 

[bigcog]

From Le Tour site:


Egan Bernal in the yellow jersey
17:35
There will be no winner for stage 19 and no most aggressive rider. For the overall classification, the times at col d'Iseran will apply.

 

[staubsauger]

IF Bernal stalls in the valley, Kruijswijk actually might be taking the yellow jersey. He looked stronger than Thomas on the Iseran with his counter attack even slightly gapping G, despite the Dutchman having zero kick.

That said, if they'd steal Bernal's Tour victory it would be scandalous! Eventually that's at least what happened up to the Iseran, until the race had to be stopped!

 

[DFA123]

Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

 

[canarydan23]

Re: Re:

Stop with the F1 crap. You can't just make up rules on the fly.

Apart from the fact that they are doing exactly that?!

They have to rule something, but halve time gaps or things like that?

Someone referenced the Froome motorbike Ventoux incident earlier, they literally just made up finish times for people in that incident.

But why in the world would you do that since you pretty easily can get the times on Iseran?

To reflect the distinct possibility that some of the GC contenders may have been keeping stuff in the tank for the last climb. In a nutshell, to reach the fairest outcome. I don't think taking the times at the top of the Iseran is the fairest outcome at all. It's an outcome, but not a fair one.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Orla just said she believes it to be:

Bernal
Alaphilippe +25s
Thomas + 1’06
Kruijswijk + 1’18
Buchmann + 1’45

 

[canarydan23]

Re:

Orla just said she believes it to be:

Bernal
Alaphilippe +25s
Thomas + 1’06
Kruijswijk + 1’18
Buchmann + 1’45

Bernal's won, Tour's over. What a real, real shame.

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

Also the only mountains he struggeld till now where those 10/15km+ monsters. The last climb is no such thing. I think Alaphilippe would eventually have lost more but its not a given.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Orla just said she believes it to be:

Bernal
Alaphilippe +25s
Thomas + 1’06
Kruijswijk + 1’18
Buchmann + 1’45

Bernal's won, Tour's over. What a real, real shame.

Certainly seems a hollow victory. Which isn't particularly fair on Bernal, who may well have won anyway.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Orla just said she believes it to be:

Bernal
Alaphilippe +25s
Thomas + 1’06
Kruijswijk + 1’18
Buchmann + 1’45

Bernal's won, Tour's over. What a real, real shame.

He was going to win anyway

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

no way. he was done. jeez people, just get real ffs, this bandwagon blindness is ridiculous.

 

[hfer07]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

what a disaster!!! ...and Pinot......

I don't think any final decision to be made by the Tour management will be correct or fair by no means- because many things could have happened on that descend & the last climb - whether Egan would have widen his advantage to Ala, whether Ala could have managed to reduce the damage, whether KRUIJSWIJK or BUCHMANN had attacked on the Tignes, Whether Movistar had a plan for the last climb....

What if the stage is cancelled all together and the times & rankings in the GC are kept before the start to the stage ?

 

[Lequack]

Re: Re:

Orla just said she believes it to be:

Bernal
Alaphilippe +25s
Thomas + 1’06
Kruijswijk + 1’18
Buchmann + 1’45

Bernal's won, Tour's over. What a real, real shame.

He was going to win anyway

With Geraint's permission of course.

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

Also the only mountains he struggeld till now where those 10/15km+ monsters. The last climb is no such thing. I think Alaphilippe would eventually have lost more but its not a given.

except he was already done on the penultimate climb already...

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

no way. he was done. jeez people, just get real ffs, this bandwagon blindness is ridiculous.

QFT

 

[jaylew]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

what a disaster!!! ...and Pinot......

I don't think any final decision to be made by the Tour management will be correct or fair by no means- because many things could have happened on that descend & the last climb - whether Egan would have widen his advantage to Ala, whether Ala could have managed to reduce the damage, whether KRUIJSWIJK or BUCHMANN had attacked on the Tignes, Whether Movistar had a plan for the last climb....

What if the stage is cancelled all together and the times & rankings in the GC are kept before the start to the stage ?

Alaphilippe would certainly love that.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He was 55" seconds behind, he wouldve never closed that gap completely and lost way more minutes than 2 eventually. Alaphilippe got saved by this decision, not the other way around.

Impossible to know that. What if he was just struggling with the altitude at the top of Iseran, but otherwise was feeling pretty good?

He could have gained on the descent and held on the last climb.

no way. he was done. jeez people, just get real ffs, this bandwagon blindness is ridiculous.

Bandwagon, wtf? You have absolutely no idea how the rest of the stage would have unfolded. Claiming Alaphilippe would have lost minutes is completely meaningless; he might have done, he might not have done.

But he absolutely had gained time on the descent before the race was neutralized, so he 100% has been hard done by in that respect.

 

[zigzag wanderer]

Re: Re:

Not having Bernal in Yellow would make tomorrow's stage more exciting I reckon but anulling today's stage altogether would be a total farce

It's a farce whatever they do now though. It simply had to be communicated before the Iseran that there was a possibility that it could be the stage finish.



So many unknowns mean that literally everyone can legitimately claim to have been cheated by the decision.

Did they know before the Iseran? I was watching on Eurosport - went for ads came back and stage cancelled without any hint before that. Having lived in mountains, I know this stuff can come from nowhere, and it can (not will) disappear equally as quickly. I can understand why they didn't cancel when the hailstones started - after 10 minutes you could never know it had happened.

Unfortunately, your last sentence sums it up completely.