Le Tour 2018 stage 16:Carcassonne - Bagnères-de-Luchon 218km

[movingtarget]

Re:

Looking at that picture shows Gilbert is a lucky boy - It looks a 3km drop.

Yeah will plenty of stones underneath. I thought he must have landed in the grass. Very lucky.

 

[franic]

Re: Le Tour 2018 stage 16:Carcassonne - Bagnères-de-Luchon 2

Grand Bornard and Luchon, two mountain stages with decents had no GC action. Why to include such kind of stages in TDF? MTFs bring at least some kind of action.

I have always complained about finishes on descends and people in here gets very animated that are more fun and bring more action. It could very well be (when that happens) but if we play the statistics it will always be better to go with MTF. It just assures us of some action.

Agree 100 % - There is never any justification for a descent finish in a multi mountain stage - After all you've already done two or three descents - Will also add the ITT should have been today - Otherwise when you have TTer's they ride conservatively until stage 20.

Not all the mountains are suitable to host a Tour finish. That’s why the Giro can arrive on top of Zoncolan while Le Tour couldn’t do the same on a similar mountain

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah strange predictions going on with people expecting Thomas to lose a minute. No way.

Thomas, Froome, Roglic and Dumo, if none of them collapse, will be within 20-40 seconds of eachother. This is why it's pivotal for the latter 3 to gain time if they want to stand any chance of winning against Thomas. But Froome won't risk it now.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Looks like Démare made it in time. 41 minutes 20 seconds down.

How the hell he can be 41 minutes down when he was 20 minutes down before climbs. This is way too ridiculous...

It's Démare.

Demare still in the race is the biggest farce of this farcical race.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

I disagree that 3 was a factor today, I disagree that 4 is a factor at all (descent finishes have often provided for more entertainment than the usual braindead MTFs, even in the last few Tours sometimes the only decent stages were those that ended downhill because then you had the usual 1-2 km attacks plus the descents) and I disagree even more strongly with not including everybody else's lack of ambition anywhere in that list.

 

[woodburn]

Re:

Yeah strange predictions going on with people expecting Thomas to lose a minute. No way.

Thomas, Froome, Roglic and Dumo, if none of them collapse, will be within 20-40 seconds of eachother. This is why it's pivotal for the latter 3 to gain time if they want to stand any chance of winning against Thomas. But Froome won't risk it now.

So you don't think Froome is going to attack at all tomorrow and just follow wheels? He knows if he doesn't take more than minute he probably won't win the tour.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

I disagree that 3 was a factor today, I disagree that 4 is a factor at all (descent finishes have often provided for more entertainment than the usual braindead MTFs, even in the last few Tours sometimes the only decent stages were those that ended downhill because then you had the usual 1-2 km attacks plus the descents) and I disagree even more strongly with not including everybody else's lack of ambition anywhere in that list.

We can discuss on 3 and 4. It is how it goes most of the times. Really statistically speaking nowadays it provides less action. You want to blame it on the riders. Fine. It just happens too often. In a hard MTF at least assures of some action.

About 1 and 2. It is easier said than done. We criticize the riders too much but everybody have some idea what is going on. Tough to beat. We saw these trains already once on the last decade. It is not easy.

 

[rlntlssly]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

I'm curious: how do you distinguish 1 and 2? Surely with the team Sky have, the "train" is pretty much inevitable?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Really statistically speaking nowadays it provides less action.

Let's see those statistics.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Yeah strange predictions going on with people expecting Thomas to lose a minute. No way.

Thomas, Froome, Roglic and Dumo, if none of them collapse, will be within 20-40 seconds of eachother. This is why it's pivotal for the latter 3 to gain time if they want to stand any chance of winning against Thomas. But Froome won't risk it now.

So you don't think Froome is going to attack at all tomorrow and just follow wheels? He know if he doesn't take more than minute he probably won't win the tour.

He will only try if he can drop everyone. As soon as Dumoulin or Roglic are at his wheel you can be certain he won't continue

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

If the climb is hard enough and the descent is technical and ends close to the finish, it really doesn't stop action.

 

[Lequack]

I doubt today's stage really softened anyone up except for an odd sprinter still remaining in the race.

 

[Tank Engine]

Awesome competition for the second ten in the GC. GvA actually fell in the GC standings

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Interesting fact: Arnaud Demare climbed the last col faster than the grupetto.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Interesting fact: Arnaud Demare climbed the last col faster than the grupetto.

He was riding by himself (as in not asdisted by car) when he passed me and the gruppetto was chilling.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

If the climb is hard enough and the descent is technical and ends close to the finish, it really doesn't stop action.

Gran Bornand last climb was hard! So the descend was too easy?
We are splitting hairs here.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Really statistically speaking nowadays it provides less action.

Let's see those statistics.

Don't have them. Would have to make them with, maybe, the last 5 years. Maybe I'll make it my project whenever I have time.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

You guys are blaming descent finishes because we're getting sooo much action on MTF's, right?

Just like with short vs long stages. Yay, opportunism!

Let's prioritize first in here. Action killers:
1- Sky team
2- Sky Train
3- Soft mountains / Soft stage
4- Descend finishes

Today the killer was 1, 2, 3,4
On Grand-Bornand was 1,2, 4

I'm curious: how do you distinguish 1 and 2? Surely with the team Sky have, the "train" is pretty much inevitable?

Sky could have rolled out today and said “y’know what? We’re not going to set tempo today.” You wouldn’t have had many more attacks than we got because everyone knows their team is strong enough to reel in most attacks.

I think fear of the unknown tomorrow played a factor too. Nobody’s ever raced a short hard stage like it before.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think Froome will attack tomorrow. No way in this world that he won't try to seal his fifth Tour de France.

 

[Escarabajo]

Landa's interview:

Mikel Landa: “Hoy ya tenía mejores sensaciones. Nunca se sabe cuándo puede puede ser el día y, aunque el último puerto no era suficientemente duro, queríamos probarlo y anticipar el descenso para ver cómo respondían las piernas. Sky, un día más, han demostrado ser muy fuertes y correr muy bien. Mañana habrá que saber gestionar las fuerzas. 65 km parecen pocos pero será un esfuerzo largo y ‘muy máximo’. Habrá que ir con tiento porque cualquier exceso se puede pagar al final. Habrá que confiar y ser muy bien guiados por nuestros directores, además de hablar mucho entre nosotros. No creo, en cualquier caso, que el sistema de parrilla vaya a variar mucho el planteamiento de carrera. Es un día importante a nivel individual pero también tenemos otros objetivos que perseguir: estamos luchando por la clasificación por equipos, Nairo y yo estamos entre los 10 primeros y Alejandro está muy cerca”.

Not what I wanted to hear. He sounds like resigned. Looking for 2-3 top ten spot places and the team classification???

http://www.revistamundociclistico.com/ruta/25884-tour-de-francia-era-mejor-guardarlo-todo-para-manana-en-esa-etapa-tengo-puesta-toda-la-esperanza-nairo-quintana.html

 

[William H]

Re: Re:

Gran Bornand last climb was hard! So the descend was too easy?
We are splitting hairs here.

Grand Bornand stage was screwed up by a head wind

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Philippa York wrote nothing about farmers

Chapeau Ala! (and Gilbert is very lucky) Otherwise ... zzzzzzzzz ....

Yeah the farmers

Hopefully those officers will be arrested themselves. Shameful use of power.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Landa's interview:

Mikel Landa: “Hoy ya tenía mejores sensaciones. Nunca se sabe cuándo puede puede ser el día y, aunque el último puerto no era suficientemente duro, queríamos probarlo y anticipar el descenso para ver cómo respondían las piernas. Sky, un día más, han demostrado ser muy fuertes y correr muy bien. Mañana habrá que saber gestionar las fuerzas. 65 km parecen pocos pero será un esfuerzo largo y ‘muy máximo’. Habrá que ir con tiento porque cualquier exceso se puede pagar al final. Habrá que confiar y ser muy bien guiados por nuestros directores, además de hablar mucho entre nosotros. No creo, en cualquier caso, que el sistema de parrilla vaya a variar mucho el planteamiento de carrera. Es un día importante a nivel individual pero también tenemos otros objetivos que perseguir: estamos luchando por la clasificación por equipos, Nairo y yo estamos entre los 10 primeros y Alejandro está muy cerca”.

Not what I wanted to hear. He sounds like resigned. Looking for 2-3 top ten spot places and the team classification???

http://www.revistamundociclistico.com/ruta/25884-tour-de-francia-era-mejor-guardarlo-todo-para-manana-en-esa-etapa-tengo-puesta-toda-la-esperanza-nairo-quintana.html

Why, what does he say?

 

[Inquitus]

Re: Re:

Landa's interview:

Mikel Landa: “Hoy ya tenía mejores sensaciones. Nunca se sabe cuándo puede puede ser el día y, aunque el último puerto no era suficientemente duro, queríamos probarlo y anticipar el descenso para ver cómo respondían las piernas. Sky, un día más, han demostrado ser muy fuertes y correr muy bien. Mañana habrá que saber gestionar las fuerzas. 65 km parecen pocos pero será un esfuerzo largo y ‘muy máximo’. Habrá que ir con tiento porque cualquier exceso se puede pagar al final. Habrá que confiar y ser muy bien guiados por nuestros directores, además de hablar mucho entre nosotros. No creo, en cualquier caso, que el sistema de parrilla vaya a variar mucho el planteamiento de carrera. Es un día importante a nivel individual pero también tenemos otros objetivos que perseguir: estamos luchando por la clasificación por equipos, Nairo y yo estamos entre los 10 primeros y Alejandro está muy cerca”.

Not what I wanted to hear. He sounds like resigned. Looking for 2-3 top ten spot places and the team classification???

http://www.revistamundociclistico.com/ruta/25884-tour-de-francia-era-mejor-guardarlo-todo-para-manana-en-esa-etapa-tengo-puesta-toda-la-esperanza-nairo-quintana.html

Why, what does he say?

Google translate

Mikel Landa:"Today I had better feelings. You never know when the day may be and, although the last port was not hard enough, we wanted to try it and anticipate the descent to see how the legs responded. Sky, one more day, they have proven to be very strong and run very well. Tomorrow we will have to know how to manage the forces. 65 km seems few but it will be a long and 'very high' effort. We will have to go carefully because any excess can be paid at the end. We will have to trust and be very well guided by our directors, besides talking a lot between us. I do not think, in any case, that the grid system will vary much the career approach. It is an important day at individual level but we also have other objectives to pursue: we are fighting for the team classification,