le Tour team thread

[The Hitch]

There's a difference between having a team to control the race, and having no-one who can make it over a mountain with the best 20-30 riders. You don't want your guy to be alone 50 k before the line, now do you.

Well to be fair to Pisti he just watched his dearly beloved destroy an entire Grand Tour without being seen within 10 miles of a teammate.

Most of us would know to change our expectations for other riders. JVdB might require different standards than Alberto Contador. It sounds quite obvious.

But this is Pistolero we are talking about

You can not trust him to make these calculations. Instead you have to explain it to him slowly - JVDB is a different rider to Alberto Contador, then watch him argue with you for the next 3 or 4 pages.

edit: had i been a minute quicker to type up this post, it would have looked like a good prediction for Pistis post above.

 

[El Pistolero]

Well to be fair to Pisti he just watched his dearly beloved destroy an entire Grand Tour without being seen within 10 miles of a teammate.

Most of us would know to change our expectations for other riders. JVdB might require different standards than Alberto Contador. It sounds quite obvious.

But this is Pistolero we are talking about

You can not trust him to make these calculations. Instead you have to explain it to him slowly - JVDB is a different rider to Alberto Contador, then watch him argue with you for the next 3 or 4 pages.

edit: had i been a minute quicker to type up this post, it would have looked like a good prediction for Pistis post above.

No, you're wrong. The team isn't worse in the mountains compared to last year. VDB is the type of rider to always be in the front of the favorites group in the wind most of the times. We all saw that last year. I really don't think he needs a lot of team mates with him in the mountains. He's not that type of rider. Perhaps it would be smarter for him to not sit in front of the favorites group all the time and spare his energy more, but he likes not to be closed in so much. It gets on his nerves.

 

[theyoungest]

Well to be fair to Pisti he just watched his dearly beloved destroy an entire Grand Tour without being seen within 10 miles of a teammate.

Most of us would know to change our expectations for other riders. JVdB might require different standards than Alberto Contador. It sounds quite obvious.

But this is Pistolero we are talking about

You can not trust him to make these calculations. Instead you have to explain it to him slowly - JVDB is a different rider to Alberto Contador, then watch him argue with you for the next 3 or 4 pages.

edit: had i been a minute quicker to type up this post, it would have looked like a good prediction for Pistis post above.

Lol, I almost can't believe you didn't type this after El Pisti posted.

No, you're wrong. The team isn't worse in the mountains compared to last year. VDB is the type of rider to always be in the front of the favorites group in the wind most of the times. We all saw that last year. I really don't think he needs a lot of team mates with him in the mountains. He's not that type of rider.

You think that's all a good mountain helper does? Ride in front of you?

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol, I almost can't believe you didn't type this after El Pisti posted.

Did you watch the Tour last year? It's plain obvious he was in front most of the time and not in the wheels of one of his team mates.

I don't get why you guys think you need so many team mates for a fifth place... Besides in the very same post I said VDB is no Contador. But he's not riding for the win, but for a measly fifth place Big big big difference. Contador actually needed his team a lot last year. Tiralongo and Navarro probably saved the Tour for him.

Aerts Mario
De Greef Francis
Delage Mickaël (Fra)
Lang Sebastian (Ger)
Lloyd Matthew (Aus)
Moreno Fernandez Daniel (Spa)
Roelandts Jürgen
Van den Broeck Jurgen
Wegelius Charles (Gbr)

This is their team from last year. Besides Aerts who won't be there the team is hardly any worse in the mountains.

He's not going to be isolated at 50km to go for the simple fact that this is the Tour and they don't race except on the final climb.

Their Tour team will be something like this:

Roelandts
Philippe Gilbert
Greipel
Francis de Greef
Van den Broeck
Sieberg
Vanendert

And some other names. Perhaps some guys who also did the Giro, but I don't know which ones they'll pick from that. Perhaps Lang as well.

Gilbert and Vanendert will be able to support VDB better than most of VDB's team last year. It really will be enough for a fifth place... The only real loss is Mario Aerts... I just don't see the big deal here... I think it's rather pathetic to exclude someone like Freire just so Gesink can have some better support... Getting multiple stage wins is better than just a 6th place

 

[nvpacchi]

Samu (and Evans and Vino) will lose probably about 2 minutes in the ttt and have to do much of the work themselves, while Basso, Schleck and Gesink get shielded all the way and will end up with a very comfortable head start over the Asturian.

No way any GC contender loses 2 minutes over 23km.

In 2009 TTT, EE only lost 2:09 over 39 km, and they have an equal or better TTT squad this year.

 

[theyoungest]

I think it's rather pathetic to exclude someone like Freire just so Gesink can have some better support... Getting multiple stage wins is better than just a 6th place

Freire was there last year. Did you notice him?

 

[saganftw]

gesink,LLS,TGBM sounds like too many cocks in one...nwm

jokes aside are LLS and TGBM ready to work for gesink?

also can be gesink from now on be reffered to as RG? would be nice to have LLS,TGBM and RG

 

[Mellow Velo]

first of all tony martin is not a classement contender. Yes they have the top sprinter. I will like to see your martin beating cancellara in the TT.

He is obviously talking about Cav and the green jersey classment.
HTC have nobody for the GC and KOM.
Stage wins, stages wins and yet more stage wins.
They are this decade's Fasso Bortolo.

I see ACF has been bigging up BMC's slim TTT chances.
They will be sans Phinney, it seems.
One engine down, a month before the start.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

lol as if Freire is going to win any stages anymore. He's not strong enough to beat Gilbert in the hilly stages and not fast enough to beat any sprinter in the sprinters stages.
And yes, LLS and Mollema are prepared to work for Gesink. Otherwise they wouldn't be on the team, simple as that

 

[niidirull]

What top 10 GC contender has got the weakest team to support them in the mountains? I'm going to say Taaramäe.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

meh Jvdb could've done with at least one good domestique like an in form Moreno... Shame Aerts won't be there he was very good last year

 

[El Pistolero]

meh Jvdb could've done with at least one good domestique like an in form Moreno... Shame Aerts won't be there he was very good last year

But they have not a single mountain domestique in their team, so doesn't matter if they focus their Tour on people who can actually win races --> Gilbert and Greipel.

And perhaps an inform Gilbert can help VDB somewhat in the mountains to replace Moreno.

 

[theyoungest]

But they have not a single mountain domestique in their team, so doesn't matter if they focus their Tour on people who can actually win races --> Gilbert and Greipel.

Ah well in that case, why bother. Take 8 sprinters and VDB.

 

[The Hitch]

Freire was there last year. Did you notice him?

Yes. I remember this bit.

"they will kill me".

 

[just some guy]

But they have not a single mountain domestique in their team, so doesn't matter if they focus their Tour on people who can actually win races --> Gilbert and Greipel.

And perhaps an inform Gilbert can help VDB somewhat in the mountains to replace Moreno.

JVDB tends to do his own mth domestique work anyway. We will see him shirt open setting the pace early in a climb and about time the other leaders start working he will already be in the red.

 

[El Pistolero]

JVDB tends to do his own mth domestique work anyway. We will see him shirt open setting the pace early in a climb and about time the other leaders start working he will already be in the red.

Yup, that's just what I noticed as well last year at the Tour. Well, he didn't set the pace that early on the climb, but was up front a little bit too early usually. But he says it's because he can't stand being surrounded by other cyclists all the time while climbing.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Can also work in his favour. Last year he said he was feeling bad at the Tourmalet and felt like blowing all the time, but kept a straight face and tried to bluff (he said after the stage)
Gesink was leading that group but was not riding at 100% to keep something back for the final kilometers. Had he known VDB was about to blow he'd have gone a bit faster.

 

[theyoungest]

Can also work in his favour. Last year he said he was feeling bad at the Tourmalet and felt like blowing all the time, but kept a straight face and tried to bluff (he said after the stage)
Gesink was leading that group but was not riding at 100% to keep something back for the final kilometers. Had he known VDB was about to blow he'd have gone a bit faster.

Gesink held back for the final km... where he gained a whole 8 seconds on VDB.

 

[Spine Concept]

If I'm not mistaken he did say something about wanting to jump on S Sanchez's (?) wheel when he went but some crazy fans were blocking the way and thus he had to wait much longer. I'm not certain about the details but it was something along those lines.

 

[theyoungest]

If I'm not mistaken he did say something about wanting to jump on S Sanchez's (?) wheel when he went but some crazy fans were blocking the way and thus he had to wait much longer. I'm not certain about the details but it was something along those lines.

Yeah, Rodriguez went, Menchov and Sanchez were in front of him and he simply couldn't pass them, with all the fans standing in the way. Still, VDB can't have been that bad, if he limited his losses that well.

 

[Spine Concept]

Yeah, Rodriguez went, Menchov and Sanchez were in front of him and he simply couldn't pass them, with all the fans standing in the way. Still, VDB can't have been that bad, if he limited his losses that well.

That's the one, thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't suggesting that Jurgen was bad though, just that those 8 seconds would have probably been more had Gesink not been obstructed to jump on Rodriguez's wheel. This would not have had any bearing on the GC though, but that's beside the point.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink held back for the final km... where he gained a whole 8 seconds on VDB.

Read, or better, watch the interviews from past that stage please.
I have a very clear memories of those.

Jurgen Vandenbroeck telling belgian press he was glad that the bluf paid off and they didn't go faster until the end

Gesink telling the dutch press he held back for the final km accelerations and then was held up by the narrow passage (fans in the way) and before he could pass it was already too late to drop VDB.

I'm not putting anything of opinion in this. These are all facts, which you can watch back on Sporza.be and NOS.nl if you care enough to go back.
It's what Jurgen VDB said himself.

So if you are disagreeing, you are disagreeing with JvdB, not me. But I'm sure you know better than the rider who was on the bike there himself hahaha

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

"Na de eerste bergrit begon ik erin te geloven. Toen stond ik vierde en dacht ik: dit mag ik niet meer afgeven. Maar ik bleef reallistisch en vreesde een slechte dag. Die kwam in de rit met aankomst op de Tourmalet, maar daar speelde ik een geslaagd spelletje blufpoker."

this was after the tour, there must be an article in the archives of either sportwereld.be or sporza with the complete part, JvdB even rode up to Gesink the next normal stage after and told Gesink he let a chance go to drop him.
I clearly remember that because it was repeated and repeated ofcourse by Wuyts.

So theyoungest, stop being a smartass and admit you are wrong this time. You like to ridiculize but this is simply stated by Jvdb himself...

 

[theyoungest]

I know VDB said that, but if that was his bad day, it wasn't that bad. (basically a repeat of my previous post)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

And it wasn't that bad, because according to both JvdB and Gesink himself, they weren't riding full pace. Just tempo. (basically a repeat of my last post)