LeMond I

[_frost]

I haven't read the whole thread but what is the concensus here, was transfusions doping before 1985 when it was banned (as by today's view any unnatural performance enhancement) or did it become doping only after the ban? So if eg. Lemond was transfusing (like majority) what was it?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Has anyone found any concrete evidence of LeMond doping yet?

Just checking.

Hinault and his compatriots have been searching since 1986, thats a long time I might say.

 

[MacRoadie]

You have read just a few. Do you need specifically dozens.

I bet I can find two dozens. Wanna bet?

I want 24 quotes. Right here, right now.

No betting, because you're the one who claimed you could provide them. Several times.

It's **** or get off the pot time.

24 quotes specifically extolling the "great benefits" of pre-oxygen vector doping.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Well, in that very same book he says he took an stimulant and could compete for the first time in his life with first class cyclists that were beyond his level.

But that was EPO right?

By the way, imagine what kind of crook this guy must be when caught by the police agents was still trying to hide the drugs.

Actually, while I don't agree with what he did I thought he was somewhat a sacrificial lamb. I felt a bit sorry for him at the end.

 

[Albatros]

I want 24 quotes. Right here, right now.

No betting, because you're the one who claimed you could provide them. Several times.

It's **** or get off the pot time.

24 quotes specifically extolling the "great benefits" of pre-oxygen vector doping.

Right now I am afraid it is impossible. And I said I could provide or I can provide them, not that I will provide them.



And certainly I will not give them to someone as unpolite as you.

 

[Albatros]

But that was EPO right?

Amphetamines, I am talking about Voet himself when he was riding.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Right now I am afraid it is impossible. And I said I could provide or I can provide them, not that I will provide them.



And certainly I will not give them to someone as unpolite as you.

So we both agree u are full of $hit.

 

[Albatros]

So we both agree u are full of $hit.

Far more of **** are you who even at the overwhelming evidence I have provided look the other way.

Well, in you case I don't even know what your stance is cause you accept that Lemond may have taken dope, but on the other hand you come with this.

Make your mind up, a trait that you must have inherited from you hero.

 

[doperhopper]

I think completely clean. Sometimes doping is just as much mental as physical. iirc In Breaking the Chain, Voet tells how he gave Virenque a glucose injection rather anything stronger (unbeknownst to Virenque). That day Virenque 'road the time trial of his life'.

actually, this well known mental doping placebo effect is so powerful that one wonders it was not yet included in the The Mighty Secret Sky Marginal Gains Weapons list

 

[GJB123]

Far more of **** are you who even at the overwhelming evidence I have provided look the other way.

Well, in you case I don't even know what your stance is cause you accept that Lemond may have taken dope, but on the other hand you come with this.

Make your mind up, a trait that you must have inherited from you hero.

What evidence have you provided? None, zilch, nothing, nada. If you really have evidence contact Armstrong, it might get you a hefty payment if he can finally silence one of his biggest critics.

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

Oh and just on the safe side and as was discussed in the EPO-thread (which Albatros should read up on), pre-EPO Tours would inevitably lead to the usual suspects being there or thereabouts. Yes, it provided some advantages, but couldn't turn "a donkey into a racehorse".

So yes, it was possible to win a TdF unaided from PED's pre-EPO if one had superfluous physical abilities like Lemond had. Dos that mean he definitely never strayed of the straight and narrow? We will never know for sure, but until now the silence has been deafening from all quarters in the peloton. More than van be said for the likes you have mentioned (Thevenet, Merckx, Anquetil, etc.).

Regards
GJ

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Far more of **** are you who even at the overwhelming evidence I have provided look the other way.

Well, in you case I don't even know what your stance is cause you accept that Lemond may have taken dope, but on the other hand you come with this.

Make your mind up, a trait that you must have inherited from you hero.

What evidence are u talking of? You provide 'evidence' a ten your old nowadays can look up on the net. Nothing new here. Zoetemelk took, Merckx, Hinault, Thevenet. All proven. Where is the proof LeMond took anything? Not even a cafeine bust my friend.

And you must know my stance by now, Greg could have taken some amfetamines or other eighties uppers. If so, too bad, if not it just adds to his legend.

actually, this well known mental doping placebo effect is so powerful that one wonders it was not yet included in the The Mighty Secret Sky Marginal Gains Weapons list

Lol.

 

[Caruut]

Fignon never said LeMond was doing it. For me that is telling.

He admitted to his own drug taking (and he said that it was pretty useless compared to what they do now - more of a season extender than a huge improvement in top-level performance). The 8s loss in 1989 never truly left him, both in his mind and the public's eye, and he was clearly always a bit bitter about it. He even went as far as to allege that LeMond's aero equipment was illegal and constituted cheating (not without grounds - Fignon was not allowed to use the same equipment at the Chrono des Nations later that year). If Fignon was prepared to say all this, I think that he would have said that LeMond took drugs if he genuinely though that he did.

 

[Albatros]

What evidence have you provided? None, zilch, nothing, nada. If you really have evidence contact Armstrong, it might get you a hefty payment if he can finally silence one of his biggest critics.

Regards
GJ

I have provided evidence of cyclists talking wonders about the efficacy of drugs before the EPO era.


And here is more.

I willt get to 24 one day.


"without doping you are gone in 7 days"

Another great cyclist who couldn't do without it, Thurau.



http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/thurau-ueber-doping-wir-haben-alle-was-genommen-a-278808.html

it is in German, but with the help of google translator is easily understandable.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I have provided evidence of cyclists talking wonders about the efficacy of drugs before the EPO era.


And here is more.

I willt get to 24 one day.


"without doping you are gone in 7 days"

Another great cyclist who couldn't do without it, Thurau.



http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/thurau-ueber-doping-wir-haben-alle-was-genommen-a-278808.html

it is in German, but with the help of google translator is easily understandable.

Come on, that's seventies stuff mate. Didi? U can do better. Ask your grandson for that matter. Lame stuff. Who's next, Peter Post? Shall I come with quotes of Peter Winnen?

Waiting...

 

[MacRoadie]

Right now I am afraid it is impossible. And I said I could provide or I can provide them, not that I will provide them.



And certainly I will not give them to someone as unpolite as you.

Better to be called impolite than be a proven liar.

 

[Albatros]

Oh and just on the safe side and as was discussed in the EPO-thread (which Albatros should read up on), pre-EPO Tours would inevitably lead to the usual suspects being there or thereabouts. Yes, it provided some advantages, but couldn't turn "a donkey into a racehorse".

So yes, it was possible to win a TdF unaided from PED's pre-EPO if one had superfluous physical abilities like Lemond had. Dos that mean he definitely never strayed of the straight and narrow? We will never know for sure, but until now the silence has been deafening from all quarters in the peloton. More than van be said for the likes you have mentioned (Thevenet, Merckx, Anquetil, etc.).

Regards
GJ

That is why the great majority of cyclists have confessed to dope or tested positive.

How many "clean" cyclists remain before the EPO era? If only a few random cyclist were caught I could imagine la creme de la creme being clean, but when we are talking about the greatest human cyclists (Lemond wasn't human) caught doping, confessing doping, not passing antidoping controls...what can we think about the very small remaining group ?

Ah, and silence is the the predominant note before the EPO years.

Unless the cyclist was caught in the antidoping test or voluntarily confessed nobody gives/gave a shi$t. Omerta was much more powerful those days.

 

[Albatros]

Come on, that's seventies stuff mate. Didi? U can do better. Ask your grandson for that matter. Lame stuff. Who's next, Peter Post? Shall I come with quotes of Peter Winnen?

Waiting...

Ok, I got you.

Dope until Lemond came on to the scene. Brilliant, magic stuff.

Doping while Lemond was winning. Minor advantage. His class could overcome it.

Doping when Lemond starts losing. Again, powerful stuff.

Great.

By the way, Thurau competed until the late eighties.

 

[Albatros]

Better to be called impolite than be a proven liar.

Bring the evidence.

But avoid rude manners if you can. I know is hard for you.

 

[MacRoadie]

Bring the evidence.

But avoid rude manners if you can. I know is hard for you.

Why? You seem hell-bent on spreading wholly unsubstantiated rumors of doping in an attempt to smear the reputation and credibility of Greg LeMond.

Rudeness seems to be the realm within which you exist.

 

[Albatros]

Why? You seem hell-bent on spreading wholly unsubstantiated rumors of doping in an attempt to smear the reputation and credibility of Greg LeMond.

Rudeness seems to be the realm within which you exist.

Unlike you, I don't give a shi$t about Lemond (now I am being rude). If it was another cyclist I would state exactly the same, considereing what cycling has been since its inception, a sport that at elite level drug taking was and is a necessity. Many cyclists have told us that, but as we say in my country, there is not a better deaf person than one who does not want to listen, sometimes because of the emotional ties we have with the athletes themselves.

 

[MacRoadie]

Henri Desgrange
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is", Henri said. "It's a Calvary. Worse than that, because the road to the Cross has only 14 stations and ours has 15. We suffer from the start to the end. You want to know how we keep going? Here..." He pulled a phial from his bag. "That's cocaine, for our eyes. This is chloroform, for our gums."

Oh, and although you profess to be quite the expert and cycling historian, please allow me to point something out to you: Henri Desgrange never said that.

In fact, Henri Desgrange never rode the Tour (in fact he didn't even follow the full race at first). He was the co-founder of the French newspaper L'Auto-Vélo , and the first organizer of the Tour. That's pretty common knowledge (it's where the Yellow Jersey gets its color)...

That quote belongs to Henri Pelissier. Next time you decide to use Wikipedia, read a bit more carefully.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ok, I got you.

Dope until Lemond came on to the scene. Brilliant, magic stuff.

Doping while Lemond was winning. Minor advantage. His class could overcome it.

Doping when Lemond starts losing. Again, powerful stuff.

Great.

By the way, Thurau competed until the late eighties.

You really aren't a real smart guy hey, doesn't matter. But come with socalled evidence. I never stated what you are stating, so do not accuse me of anything.

Didi rode untill the end of the eighties? That's why all of his memorable accomplishments were in the seventies. At Peter Posts team of course.

Again you big mouth a lot, it's almost laughable. Wait, it is.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I see myself as a huge fiery comet, a shooting star. Everyone stops, points up and gasps "Oh look at that!" Then- whoosh, and I'm gone...and they'll never see anything like it ever again... and they won't be able to forget me- ever. I was just testing the bounds of reality, i was curious to see what would happen, That's all it was curiosity. I will not take questions.Thank you.

 

[Albatros]

You really aren't a real smart guy hey, doesn't matter. But come with socalled evidence. I never stated what you are stating, so do not accuse me of anything.

Didi rode untill the end of the eighties? That's why all of his memorable accomplishments were in the seventies. At Peter Posts team of course.

Again you big mouth a lot, it's almost laughable. Wait, it is.

Compared to you I feel borderline genius.

Thurau achieved the same in the eighties as your hero in the 90's . But Thurau has not excuse of being robbed as he is a confessed doper.

According to his words e needed the dope to win in the 70's, but couldn't win with it in the 80's Big deal. He may have still won if the rest were clean.