Lemond The Last Rider To Win The Tour Clean?

[buckwheat]

...interesting you say that LeMond that retired in 1994 because that is factually wrong...so which/whose PR firm are you working for?...spreading barefaced lies like that you should be ashamed of yourself...muddying the waters...being an agent of foreign powers...feh!...

Cheers

blutto

How much are you getting paid?

 

[blutto]

How much are you getting paid?

...not hardly enough to deal with you and the rest of the Familiars...I do it for the love of the sport...

Cheers

blutto

 

[ultimobici]

...interesting you say that LeMond that retired in 1994 because that is factually wrong...so which/whose PR firm are you working for?...spreading barefaced lies like that you should be ashamed of yourself...muddying the waters...being an agent of foreign powers...feh!...

Cheers

blutto

Huh?

Lemond rode for GAN in 1994, he didn't ride in 95 and didn't change teams.

Or are you referring to the parallel universe in which Lemond doped and Armstrong is clean?

 

[blutto]

That would be an impressive statement - but like most of your posts it is factually incorrect.

Which stage was LeMond "dropped from the gruppetto"?
How do you finish in the top 40 if you can't hang in with the gruppetto?

...you are absolutely right...he wasn't dropped by the gruppetto...just dropped...see below...


How does Greg Lemond get a free pass on doping when a closer look at his '89 tdf victory should raise eye brows.
I watched all the stages of the Giro that year in Italy, as Lemond was dropped from every climb on that years route. He looked pale and exhausted. Following his now famous tour victory, he has written many times that his former soigneur, Otto Jacome, noticed how pale he looked and diagnosed him as being severely anemic. He goes on to say that he gave him an IV dose of Iron that enabled him to recover and go on and win the TDF. As a doctor this story makes me laugh. I'm a surgeon and have even asked a Hematologist friend her opinion. She laughed and said, must have been EPO.
Lemond did look pale/anemic, and given his performance in the '89 Giro it's logical to assume he was. However, IV iron will not correct an anemic HCt in a month to a level needed to win the tour. EPO was FDA approved in '89 and available for his use. It's the only way outside of a blood transfusion to raise his HCt to a competitive level in such a short time. His story does not add up. He is part of the old generation. He should be pressed and produce his old CBC's, or just shut up.

...again,sorry for the bad info...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

Huh?

Lemond rode for GAN in 1994, he didn't ride in 95 and didn't change teams.

Or are you referring to the parallel universe in which Lemond doped and Armstrong is clean?

...why pray tell limit yourself to that particular parallel universe or its more acceptable ( in some belief systems ) polar opposite... but as long as we are dreaming up parallel universe scenarios why not one where both LA and GL doped...just a thought, as long as we are dreaming...

Cheers

blutto

 

[ultimobici]

...you are absolutely right...he wasn't dropped by the gruppetto...just dropped...see below...


How does Greg Lemond get a free pass on doping when a closer look at his '89 tdf victory should raise eye brows.
I watched all the stages of the Giro that year in Italy, as Lemond was dropped from every climb on that years route. He looked pale and exhausted. Following his now famous tour victory, he has written many times that his former soigneur, Otto Jacome, noticed how pale he looked and diagnosed him as being severely anemic. He goes on to say that he gave him an IV dose of Iron that enabled him to recover and go on and win the TDF. As a doctor this story makes me laugh. I'm a surgeon and have even asked a Hematologist friend her opinion. She laughed and said, must have been EPO.
Lemond did look pale/anemic, and given his performance in the '89 Giro it's logical to assume he was. However, IV iron will not correct an anemic HCt in a month to a level needed to win the tour. EPO was FDA approved in '89 and available for his use. It's the only way outside of a blood transfusion to raise his HCt to a competitive level in such a short time. His story does not add up. He is part of the old generation. He should be pressed and produce his old CBC's, or just shut up.

...again,sorry for the bad info...

Cheers

blutto

So if he was on EPO in 89, why did he retire in 94, aged 32? How do you account for his appalling seasons in 92, 93 & 94? He went from winning races at the highest level in 82,83,84,85,86 & 89 & 90 to virtually nothing from 1991 onwards. At 29 he was for all intents and purposes a has-been. It doesn't add up that a rider would dope successfully for a year or so and then stop. There were no tests for EPO or transfusions so the risk of being caught was not there.

Lemond's 89 Giro was not as bad as you claim. He lost a total of 54'23" by the time the race finished in Firenze. Almost half of this time was lost in the first 9 stages, with 8 minutes in the first day.

When you look at what was happening behind the scenes it becomes clear that performing on the bike was the least of his problems. ADR didn't pay him for three months. As a consequence he stopped training for a while. I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone who is willing to work , let alone give of their best when they aren't being paid!

http://www.bikeradar.com/blog/article/the-greatest-tour-of-all-by-greg-lemond-22419

I don't doubt you saw Lemond getting a kicking in the 89 Giro, but he was not out the back of the bus every climb. If he was he'd have been placed with Riis 2 hours back or Bob Roll 3 hours back!

 

[Race Radio]

rambling nonsense

So your evidence is you one time talked to a doctor who laughed at you?

 

[blutto]

Huh?

Lemond rode for GAN in 1994, he didn't ride in 95 and didn't change teams.

Or are you referring to the parallel universe in which Lemond doped and Armstrong is clean?

...so sorry..got lost dreaming...but you were referring to what were you intimating was a mythical parallel universe...well this mythical universe does actually exist and it is presided over by a mythical creature who shape shifts depending on what the moment requires...

...here is that mythical creature defining the moment he decided to quit his chosen profession....please note the date...and please note the incident that precipitated this quitting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u3AQNI9FI

...what is interesting is that that position is at odds with what is said here...

http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

...specifically the following...

Bicyclist: Then let me restate the question. Do you feel that drug use is prevalent in the pro peloton?

LeMond: Well, it's hard to say. I don't know if it's drugs, but there are substances. I don't know that I buy the excuse by people who say they didn't perform well in a one-day race because the winners were on drugs. In a one-day race, there's no reason you cannot perform as well as someone taking drugs. EPO (Erythropoeitin, a naturally-ocurring and synthesized hormone that increases red blood cell count) just increases your red blood cells. Here in America you can train at altitude any time you want and get the same benefit from altitude as from EPO. Steroids, on the other hand, accelerate recovery. I went steroid free throughout my whole career. There were always rumors of guys taking stuff, but more than steroids it was the cortisone, the catabolic, not the anabolic. Of course there were tests, and people have been caught with testosterone. The Italians, somewhere in the '80s, figured out how to take small amounts to be on the legal side of it, which does help recovery and would help tremendously in a three week race. I've heard two sides of the drug issue. First of all, you have to understand the doping mentality. I don't think there's a rider in the peloton that prefers to take drugs. It's simply what doing to keep up with competition, and if they think everyone's getting away with it, they feel like they need to use it, too. Half of these guys haven't finished high school, have a wife and three kids at home, and if they don't perform, they won't get paid. The problem with Americans is that our ethics are sometimes a bit nave-don't get me wrong, the American ethic is really good, I like the American attitude, but it doesn't really bite into the reality of situation. I know my old teammate, Eric Boyer, retired because he didn't want to touch the stuff, and I know many other people who made it through clean, such as Andy Hampsten and Steve Bauer. Every rider on La Vie Claire was clean, that was Paul Keochli's big deal to make sure he had a clean team. But I do know in the early '90s there was a huge movement in Italy. Riders that had been racing for six or seven years were suddenly riding really well. To me, that looks a little suspicious. The drug issue is something I often thought about during my career. Toward the end, I always wondered, 'Is everyone taking drugs, while I stay clean, causing me to perform so poorly?' But there wasn't a drug in the world that would've helped me. One thing I do know is that a teammate of mine went to an Italian team and he died of a heart attack a year later. It was a little disappointing. I do think the riders are trying to say, 'Hey, we're for control testing.' The riders are the ones who pushed for the haematocrit level tests, so people would stay within the limits
----------------------------------------------------------------

...and please keep in mind that the official reason for quitting was busted mitochondria....though that seemed to change when our mythical creature found his new vocation, that is, rescuing his legacy as the greatest cyclists ever( and he has the VO2 Max numbers to prove it, just ask him...ergo see this...http://velochimp.com/2006/08/02/lemond-is-like-al-bundy/ )....oh sorry...getting rid of drugs in cycling ...

....so this has me confused...which parallel universe are we really talking about because this shape shifting mythical creature is, to put it politely, all over the map...though it does have this Alice in Wonderland vibe to it which is kinda interesting..

....as ever, looking for a straight line thru this mess...because parallel universes are really complicated....especially when they are presided over by a shape shifter....

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

So your evidence is you one time talked to a doctor who laughed at you?

...as always, beautifully put...the essence of reason and logic...you represent your club well...

Cheers, your special friend

blutto

 

[Benotti69]

...interesting you say that LeMond that retired in 1994 because that is factually wrong...so which/whose PR firm are you working for?...spreading barefaced lies like that you should be ashamed of yourself...muddying the waters...being an agent of foreign powers...feh!...

Cheers

blutto

Well when did he retire blotto?

as for working for anyone, i wouldn't stoop to PR spin.

I was never a fan of LeMond the rider, i favoured Kelly and Roche....

but after 16 years and not shread or .00000000001mg of evidence so give it up.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

How can he?
He just signed up to accuse Lemond & praise Armstrong. Goebbels would be proud of him. Just searched his posts.

 

[hrotha]

How can you guys bring yourselves to discuss this all over again, when those attacking LeMond are using the same arguments you refuted last time? Seriously.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Like what?

 

[Benotti69]

How can you guys bring yourselves to discuss this all over again, when those attacking LeMond are using the same arguments you refuted last time? Seriously.

Absolutely agree and it's about time mods close such threads or deletes posts with no evidence or making points which have a hidden agenda such as blotto's

 

[ultimobici]

Drivel

Cheers

blutto

So confused you can't even understand what he sadi in the Fora.tv interview. He said " ....I retired from cycling. And in 1995, January 1995, I heard my team-mate had a heart attack and died....

He said prior to that that his last racing day was the 6th stage of the 94 Tour.

I had already seen that whole interview and nothing was out of the ordinary at all. His comments you quoted (no link) make sense, it would be nice to know when they were made too and have the correct link.

If Armstrong, with all his millions, can't keep a lid on rumours & accusations, how do you explain Lemond not having a single detractor? Not even a whiff, nary a single nutter either. Not even a reward could elicit anything! Curious isn't it?

 

[blutto]

Well when did he retire blotto?

as for working for anyone, i wouldn't stoop to PR spin.

I was never a fan of LeMond the rider, i favoured Kelly and Roche....

but after 16 years and not shread or .00000000001mg of evidence so give it up.

...see here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u3AQNI9FI

..kinda odd he would point to that one incident....and not to the drug proliferation that had been happening for a while and which everyone apparently knew about ( including GL I assume given his statements since )...and remember he is loath to point an unequivocal finger at drugs at the time of his retirement.... ( see answer to drug question here.... .http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html. )...for some reason busted mitochondria was a better excuse, at least for that moment..

..maybe his monkey was hungry and needed a peanut?...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

So your evidence is you one time talked to a doctor who laughed at you?

Imagine the number of women in his life who have done the same thing.

 

[Benotti69]

blah blah blah blah

Cheers

blutto

someone who so obviously has an agenda with absolutely no evidence only hearsay and pointing to the old chestnut everyone was doing it so GL must have been. BS and more BS.

never a fan of GL as a rider, but the guy has shown time and time again to be a supporter of a dope free sport more than any other athlete to his personal detriment and if that is not proof for some, the lack of evidence from any past massuers, doctors, riders and director sportifs should be and means you and all the other LA fanboys are full of BS

my last word on this thread.

about time it was closed and deleted from the forum.

 

[blutto]

someone who so obviously has an agenda with absolutely no evidence only hearsay and pointing to the old chestnut everyone was doing it so GL must have been. BS and more BS.

never a fan of GL as a rider, but the guy has shown time and time again to be a supporter of a dope free sport more than any other athlete to his personal detriment and if that is not proof for some, the lack of evidence from any past massuers, doctors, riders and director sportifs should be and means you and all the other LA fanboys are full of BS

my last word on this thread.

about time it was closed and deleted from the forum.

...so head office called...told you that this is getting uncomfortable...and they asked you to shut it down...and no dinner for you if you don't..OK I understand now...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...so sorry..got lost dreaming...but you were referring to what were you intimating was a mythical parallel universe...well this mythical universe does actually exist and it is presided over by a mythical creature who shape shifts depending on what the moment requires...

...here is that mythical creature defining the moment he decided to quit his chosen profession....please note the date...and please note the incident that precipitated this quitting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u3AQNI9FI

...what is interesting is that that position is at odds with what is said here...

http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

...specifically the following...

Bicyclist: Then let me restate the question. Do you feel that drug use is prevalent in the pro peloton?

LeMond: Well, it's hard to say. I don't know if it's drugs, but there are substances. I don't know that I buy the excuse by people who say they didn't perform well in a one-day race because the winners were on drugs. In a one-day race, there's no reason you cannot perform as well as someone taking drugs. EPO (Erythropoeitin, a naturally-ocurring and synthesized hormone that increases red blood cell count) just increases your red blood cells. Here in America you can train at altitude any time you want and get the same benefit from altitude as from EPO. Steroids, on the other hand, accelerate recovery. I went steroid free throughout my whole career. There were always rumors of guys taking stuff, but more than steroids it was the cortisone, the catabolic, not the anabolic. Of course there were tests, and people have been caught with testosterone. The Italians, somewhere in the '80s, figured out how to take small amounts to be on the legal side of it, which does help recovery and would help tremendously in a three week race. I've heard two sides of the drug issue. First of all, you have to understand the doping mentality. I don't think there's a rider in the peloton that prefers to take drugs. It's simply what doing to keep up with competition, and if they think everyone's getting away with it, they feel like they need to use it, too. Half of these guys haven't finished high school, have a wife and three kids at home, and if they don't perform, they won't get paid. The problem with Americans is that our ethics are sometimes a bit nave-don't get me wrong, the American ethic is really good, I like the American attitude, but it doesn't really bite into the reality of situation. I know my old teammate, Eric Boyer, retired because he didn't want to touch the stuff, and I know many other people who made it through clean, such as Andy Hampsten and Steve Bauer. Every rider on La Vie Claire was clean, that was Paul Keochli's big deal to make sure he had a clean team. But I do know in the early '90s there was a huge movement in Italy. Riders that had been racing for six or seven years were suddenly riding really well. To me, that looks a little suspicious. The drug issue is something I often thought about during my career. Toward the end, I always wondered, 'Is everyone taking drugs, while I stay clean, causing me to perform so poorly?' But there wasn't a drug in the world that would've helped me. One thing I do know is that a teammate of mine went to an Italian team and he died of a heart attack a year later. It was a little disappointing. I do think the riders are trying to say, 'Hey, we're for control testing.' The riders are the ones who pushed for the haematocrit level tests, so people would stay within the limits
----------------------------------------------------------------

...and please keep in mind that the official reason for quitting was busted mitochondria....though that seemed to change when our mythical creature found his new vocation, that is, rescuing his legacy as the greatest cyclists ever( and he has the VO2 Max numbers to prove it, just ask him...ergo see this...http://velochimp.com/2006/08/02/lemond-is-like-al-bundy/ )....oh sorry...getting rid of drugs in cycling ...

....so this has me confused...which parallel universe are we really talking about because this shape shifting mythical creature is, to put it politely, all over the map...though it does have this Alice in Wonderland vibe to it which is kinda interesting..

....as ever, looking for a straight line thru this mess...because parallel universes are really complicated....especially when they are presided over by a shape shifter....

Cheers

blutto

Just to help you out Blutto.

Here is the article announcing Gregs retirement in 1994 - and here is a quote that should help you:

But Dr. Michelle Taube of the Minneapolis Sports Medicine Center, "who has worked the last three months researching me," is still not certain of the cause, LeMond said. "That's only the most likely theory."

Also - your post above is from1998 (right before Festina broke) - so as you can see he has been very vocal about anti-doping for a long time.

 

[Darryl Webster]

+ 1. This thread has served no purpose other than being a stage for two or three stooges to continue to put forward a "non theory"..no grounds for it, not a scrap.
The assertion made that "all" pro riders, past and present dope has no basis, insults those that dont and if it were the case why would any one of that view continue to follow the sport ?...unless there some kinda saddo that gets there kicks from deliberatly provoking regardless of how absurd and bogus there "arguement"..such a person doesnt give a stuff for truth.That not part of there agenda.

Mods, if ya feel so inclined ,please remove this thread..theres a good case to argue that the question doesnt belong in the clinic..isnt its saposed to about drugs in the sport?
With ZERO evidence about a fella who was last at his best 21 years ago it has no relavance here.
History is were it belongs.

 

[blutto]

Imagine the number of women in his life who have done the same thing.

...well isn't that novel...I can hardly wait to see what more is to come from you...perhaps a barrage from your vast arsenal of booger based insults...is this the kind of stuff they teach in lawyering skool...purtee high falutin...

...be forewarned my defenses include the highly sophisticated Booger Shield System (TM)...so fire at will, and rest assured we have plenty of provisions to withstand a lengthy siege...

Cheers

blutto

 

[flicker]

+ 1. This thread has served no purpose other than being a stage for two or three stooges to continue to put forward a "non theory"..no grounds for it, not a scrap.
The assertion made that "all" pro riders, past and present dope has no basis, insults those that dont and if it were the case why would any one of that view continue to follow the sport ?...unless there some kinda saddo that gets there kicks from deliberatly provoking regardless of how absurd and bogus there "arguement"..such a person doesnt give a stuff for truth.That not part of there agenda.

Mods, if ya feel so inclined ,please remove this thread..theres a good case to argue that the question doesnt belong in the clinic..isnt its saposed to about drugs in the sport?
With ZERO evidence about a fella who was last at his best 21 years ago it has no relavance here.
History is were it belongs.

I feel the same about my Lance. What happened in the past is history. We now have a clean cycling culture since Lances' retirement.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I feel the same about my Lance. What happened in the past is history. We now have a clean cycling culture since Lances' retirement.

So Goldenball is "history"?..obviously racing this year and last past ya by... best tell the FDA that...seems pretty current to them.
While your at it , go lick em. Cus ya posts here have zero relavence.

 

[ultimobici]

I feel the same about my Lance. What happened in the past is history. We now have a clean cycling culture since Lances' retirement.

Problem is Lance couldn't stay retired, and while he was on his comeback the rotten truth of Lance'sdeeds started to surface. Thus it is in the present.

So nope, it's very relevant to current events that are unfolding here and now.