Lemond The Last Rider To Win The Tour Clean?

[flicker]

Who saw LeMond dope and what did he take? When? Why hasn't this person ever said so publicly?

Of course it's obvious that you just made this up, but I thought I'd just ask anyway.

PM me and I will talk to you. Fred

 

[blutto]

Who saw LeMond dope and what did he take? When? Why hasn't this person ever said so publicly?

Of course it's obvious that you just made this up, but I thought I'd just ask anyway.

...call me naive but isn't one of the principle rules to getting away with a crime is keeping your mouth shut...as in you don't pull off the perfect heist and then go shooting your mouth off about it...and especially if the crime is continuing to pay dividends...

...if your crew small, and was/is tight you really will not leave a lot
of evidentiary crumbs...(sort of like a job done in-house)....and you are then officially clean...

....but as we know from the cop shows there is always a detail that unravels the plan...and often its really close to home as in there is always a gorilla in the room....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...which begs the question ( if we are to be fair and apply the ineuendo that seems to be a stock-in-trade tool of the Lance haters crowd)...how did the squeaky clean Golden Boy`s miraculous TT time withstand a couple of decades of assault by the most drug addled TT specialists in history and armed with very trickest of go-fast gear...

Cheers

blutto

You don't check facts -do you?

1989, Greg LeMond - 54.545kph
1994, Chris Boradman - 55.266kph

 

[red_flanders]

PM me and I will talk to you. Fred

It's a secret? Your name is Fred? If you have evidence, by all means, let's hear it, out loud. You directly accused him, now back it up or your comments are worthless.

 

[red_flanders]

...call me naive but isn't one of the principle rules to getting away with a crime is keeping your mouth shut...as in you don't pull off the perfect heist and then go shooting your mouth off about it...and especially if the crime is continuing to pay dividends...

...if your crew small, and was/is tight you really will not leave a lot
of evidentiary crumbs...(sort of like a job done in-house)....and you are then officially clean...

....but as we know from the cop shows there is always a detail that unravels the plan...and often its really close to home as in there is always a gorilla in the room....

Cheers

blutto

I don't know. Is this your idea of evidence of something? An absence of evidence?

Didn't Flickr say he knew someone who knew something? <rhetorical>Why not say what specifically? Why does this person with evidence not come out publicly?</rhetorical>

 

[CPAvelo]

...call me naive but isn't one of the principle rules to getting away with a crime is keeping your mouth shut...as in you don't pull off the perfect heist and then go shooting your mouth off about it...and especially if the crime is continuing to pay dividends...

...if your crew small, and was/is tight you really will not leave a lot
of evidentiary crumbs...(sort of like a job done in-house)....and you are then officially clean...

....but as we know from the cop shows there is always a detail that unravels the plan...and often its really close to home as in there is always a gorilla in the room....

Cheers

blutto

Where is Columbo when we need him?

 

[nslckevin]

You don't check facts -do you?

1989, Greg LeMond - 54.545kph
1994, Chris Boradman - 55.266kph

You're comparing the final 27km stage of a three week race against an 8 minute PROLOGUE? Seriously?

 

[Escarabajo]

You are talking about Le Mond the man who said Fignon will be most remembered as the one who took second to Greg. LeMond is a real charmer, Fignon had just died of cancer. I have heard from a friend of a team mate Greg has doped. If the dope didn't take and he is clean I won't respect Greg as a person, tour doper or tour cleaner fish.

This thread is a crock o mierda anyway. Who won the tour clean is irrelevant anyway. Unless you have great manlove for greggie poo. Cause it was when Greg started racing and is a dirty sport and I am sure he knows it. I have pictures of greg in belgium at 17, ya ever read a book called a dog in a hat? Who cares what and if Carlos S. doped ? What is the name of the rider talking trash about the former tour winners anyway.

Didn't you say the same thing some months ago? This forum went ballistic for many days and many discussions came out from this comment. You are doing the same thing now? Please man, you need to do better than that.

You never came with any proof at all. No need to PM

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You're comparing the final 27km stage of a three week race against an 8 minute PROLOGUE? Seriously?

No.

Go back and read Bluttos post - they said it took '2 decades' for LeMonds record speed to be broken, I just pointed out that once again they had their facts wrong..

 

[blutto]

You don't check facts -do you?

1989, Greg LeMond - 54.545kph
1994, Chris Boradman - 55.266kph

...dude...you are so just like TFF (a.k.a. SFB)...just money in the bank...

Cheers

blutto

 

[SpartacusRox]

No.

Go back and read Bluttos post - they said it took '2 decades' for LeMonds record speed to be broken, I just pointed out that once again they had their facts wrong..

Lol good sidestep...

 

[flicker]

Didn't you say the same thing some months ago? This forum went ballistic for many days and many discussions came out from this comment. You are doing the same thing now? Please man, you need to do better than that.

You never came with any proof at all. No need to PM

no need for a lawsuit from concerned individuals. either. go back to wikipedia for your facts

 

[kielbasa]

ran across this little bit of info....you might find it interesting...and maybe changes the time-frame...

`
In 1988 the German pharmaceutical company, Boehringer Mannheim (now part of the Roche Group) produced its own recombinant erythropoietin; epoetin-beta, marketed as NeoRecormon. ( from The Pharmaceutical Journal )


Cheers

blutto

Implication noted, but it doesn't quite explain why LeMond got his butt kicked from 1991 on, does it?

 

[flicker]

Didn't you say the same thing some months ago? This forum went ballistic for many days and many discussions came out from this comment. You are doing the same thing now? Please man, you need to do better than that.

You never came with any proof at all. No need to PM

In many ways this thread is irrelevant. LeMond was a freak o nature who could beat peded up hard men lin Hinault and that Irish bloke Kelly while Greg just drank Red Zinger tea and ate granola bars. Probably just a combination of Gregs incredible VO2 max, anger and A D D. Like I said before Greg was cheated out of many victories including probably 3 more tour wins if it wasn't for unfortunate circumstances. I take my hat off to Greg he was a great champion. I hope that he can rest on his laurels.

 

[blutto]

Implication noted, but it doesn't quite explain why LeMond got his butt kicked from 1991 on, does it?

... it could be, as has been noted in several threads here, that everybody else got on the program...

Cheers

blutto

 

[ricara]

To which he replied, " only Greg Lemond in 1989 and 1990 "

I believe this. I just don't understand why he left out Greg's first victory. Did he think Greg doped for that??? Or was it just that it was outside of your 20 year time limit? (I'm a little slow tonight, sorry.)

 

[nslckevin]

No.

Go back and read Bluttos post - they said it took '2 decades' for LeMonds record speed to be broken, I just pointed out that once again they had their facts wrong..

That's fine, but as I'm sure you know from following cycling for these many years that Lemond's record TT was ALWAYS in the context of a non-prologue Tour stage TT. Boardman's ride was in a prologue.

However, you did miss that the new record is held by Dave Zabriskie for his non-prologue stage 1 TT ((19 km) at 54.676 kmh in 2005) which is just ever so slightly faster than Lemond's 54.545 km/h in the final stage of the 1989 Tour.

Though technically it meets the requirements, Zabriskie's ride in this context still deserves somewhat of an '*' as it was the first stage of the tour vs. Lemond's was the last stage of the Tour. So, Zabriskie gets the record, but I think that all else being "relatively" equal, Lemond's ride was more impressive as he had three weeks of fatigue in his legs.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's fine, but as I'm sure you know from following cycling for these many years that Lemond's record TT was ALWAYS in the context of a non-prologue Tour stage TT. Boardman's ride was in a prologue.

However, you did miss that the new record is held by Dave Zabriskie for his non-prologue stage 1 TT ((19 km) at 54.676 kmh in 2005) which is just ever so slightly faster than Lemond's 54.545 km/h in the final stage of the 1989 Tour.

Though technically it meets the requirements, Zabriskie's ride in this context still deserves somewhat of an '*' as it was the first stage of the tour vs. Lemond's was the last stage of the Tour. So, Zabriskie gets the record, but I think that all else being "relatively" equal, Lemond's ride was more impressive as he had three weeks of fatigue in his legs.

To your first paragraph I agree - but again this is what Blutto wrote:

how did the squeaky clean Golden Boy`s miraculous TT time withstand a couple of decades of assault by the most drug addled TT specialists in history and armed with very trickest of go-fast gear.

All I was pointing out was that CB went faster.

True about - DaveZ regarding ITT's (which I do know), but it is almost impossible to draw comparisons on TT/times as there hasn't been an ITT as short as 1989 included in the Tour up until DaveZ with the exception of Mountain TTs.
The average TT in Tours have been 50-60km. In 2000 a rider went almost 54kph for 59kms!

 

[blutto]

To your first paragraph I agree - but again this is what Blutto wrote:


All I was pointing out was that CB went faster.

True about - DaveZ regarding ITT's (which I do know), but it is almost impossible to draw comparisons on TT/times as there hasn't been an ITT as short as 1989 included in the Tour up until DaveZ with the exception of Mountain TTs.
The average TT in Tours have been 50-60km. In 2000 a rider went almost 54kph for 59kms!

...what blutto wrote was TT and most certainly not prologue....there is a difference and he knows the difference as should most fans of the sport...so please don't try to put words in his mouth...and no self-serving strawmanism please, that is just a cheap debating tactic...

...and I know this to be true because I was there ...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

...what blutto wrote was TT and most certainly not prologue....there is a difference and he knows the difference as should most fans of the sport...so please don't try to put words in his mouth...no self-serving strawmanism please, that is just a cheap debating tactic...

...and I know this to be true because I was there ...

Cheers

blutto

...late breaking news...from http://forum.team-saxobank.com/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=5013


Era of EPO doping begins in 1989:
EPO was certified as medicine in 1989, but the French newspaper Le Monde reported already at jan.1988, that it was obtainable at the black market as a product in test phase. The Danish physician Søren Kragbak has reported, that in 1989 a Swedish medical company had contacted the Danish Cycling Union, with the request to make a secret EPO test study on selected riders. This was however rejected, since DCU considered it too dangerous. Instead the test programme was allegedly run in collaboration with the Swedish Cross Country team.

In 1988-1990 there was reports of 15 cycling riders that have died from improper use of EPO: 9 from Netherland, 5 from Belgium and 1 from Germany. Among those we have the deaths of Gerd Oosterbosch (TVM) in 1989, Patrice Bar (IOC-Tulip) in 1990 and of Johannes Draaijer (PDM) in feb.1990. Few years later, there was all in all registered 20 riders and 7 Swedish orientation runners, who had passed away due to EPO. After the first dangerous years, experience was gained about how to keep EPO consumption at a level that didn’t kill you (and techniques was invented to help dillute your blood). Just to reflect: The same story applies for use of amphetamines in 1949-1969, where a total number of 14 riders died (Tom Simpson, Knud Enemark, etc.), before experience was gained how to avoid the accute deaths. IOC banned EPO as an illegal substance in 1990, but since no test existed until 2001, it became VERY FAST the most populair doping product in cycling.

...most interesting...especially considering the abuse I took for having the temerity to say much the same thing....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...what blutto wrote was TT and most certainly not prologue....there is a difference and he knows the difference as should most fans of the sport...so please don't try to put words in his mouth...and no self-serving strawmanism please, that is just a cheap debating tactic...

...and I know this to be true because I was there ...

Cheers

blutto

So you want to compare a 24km TT to other TT's - even though in the 10 years after the shortest flat TT was almost twice that distance (46.5k).

The speed LeMond did in 89 they were nearly doing in 59km TTs a decade later.

 

[ultimobici]

You are talking about Le Mond the man who said Fignon will be most remembered as the one who took second to Greg. LeMond is a real charmer, Fignon had just died of cancer. I have heard from a friend of a team mate Greg has doped. If the dope didn't take and he is clean I won't respect Greg as a person, tour doper or tour cleaner fish.

This thread is a crock o mierda anyway. Who won the tour clean is irrelevant anyway. Unless you have great manlove for greggie poo. Cause it was when Greg started racing and is a dirty sport and I am sure he knows it. I have pictures of greg in belgium at 17, ya ever read a book called a dog in a hat? Who cares what and if Carlos S. doped ? What is the name of the rider talking trash about the former tour winners anyway.

You really do have issues with Lemond, don't you?

This is the quote I think you're referring to. But in full it is very different in meaning from your inference.

Speaking on French news channel France 24, LeMond said: "It's a really sad day. I see him as one of the great riders who was hampered by injuries. He had a very, very big talent, much more than anyone recognised. For me he was one of the greater champions that was not recognised. He was more recognised for his loss in the Tour de France than for his two victories.”
"We were teammates, competitors, but also friends. He was a great person, one of the few that I find was really true to himself. He didn’t have an ego. He really knew himself.”
“When he lost the Tour de France in 1989 it was one of the few victories where I felt we both won. The saddest thing for me is that for the rest of his career he said he won two Tours de France, when in reality we both could have won the race."
He was one of the few riders who I really admired for his honesty and his frankness. We talked about a lot of different things outside of cycling and I was fortunate to really get to know him when my career stopped. I believe he was also one of the generation that was cut short in the early nineties because he was not able to fulfil the rest of his career. But he was a great rider.”

Let it go!

 

[galaxy1]

why does Lemond get so much special treatment? i just don't understand. the ridiculously convoluted arguments that are used to defend him above all others, (and occasionally attack him without evidence).

i don't know whether he was clean or dirty, and nor do you. but the same applies to most TdF winners of the last 30 years (excluding only those who have tested positive or confessed).

please try to be a little more consistent.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Lemond was clean, end of. Not a SINGLE shred of evidence or an accusation from anyone else close to him. Not one in all these years.
Famously outspoken on the subject of peds, infamously paranoid( careful?) to avoid being spiked.
Disliked bya few nut jobs on here who iether do it to distract from real news or have some kinda personality dissorder and cant deal with a good but flawed human being ( like most peeps) and prefer there hero`s to be Super Man.

http://scottwilliamfoley.com/2007/11/29/the-psychology-of-superman/

 

[Big Doopie]

Lemond was clean, end of. Not a SINGLE shred of evidence or an accusation from anyone else close to him. Not one in all these years.
Famously outspoken on the subject of peds, infamously paranoid( careful?) to avoid being spiked.
Disliked bya few nut jobs on here who iether do it to distract from real news or have some kinda personality dissorder and cant deal with a good but flawed human being ( like most peeps) and prefer there hero`s to be Super Man.

http://scottwilliamfoley.com/2007/11/29/the-psychology-of-superman/

bingo. nail meet hammer.