Lemond - Trek lawsuit

[Race Radio]

LeMond does not have any NEW dirt does he?

Yes, lots.

 

[ggusta]

Wouldn't that just make him a 'nut'? Frankly, America has lots of nuts of their own regularly congregating in the name of religious rapture. Maybe people are just tired of psychos being labeled as anything other than what they are.

Yes, how foolish of me to label a nut as an Islamic terrorist one man sleeper cell. Note to self: stop being so judgmental.

I think any further discussion can be handled better off the forum.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

LeMond does not have any NEW dirt does he?

No, nothing. It's all court case bluff.

What seems like sexy info to people on an internet forum won't wash in a court room.

 

[scribe]

Yes, how foolish of me to label a nut as an Islamic terrorist one man sleeper cell. Note to self: stop being so judgmental.

I think any further discussion can be handled better off the forum.

lol

One man sleeper cell.

 

[ggusta]

lol

One man sleeper cell.

Shining example of how suggestible some people can be to the dominant media message.

 

[scribe]

Shining example of how suggestible some people can be to the dominant media message.

**** Cheney called and wants to thank you for your continued service.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dr M, the facts about Lance's doping have been public knowledge for YEARS now. LeMond does not have any NEW dirt does he? Most people really just don't care, and his OnTheBike achievements and legacy are already met with apathy by most sports fans. Is bicycling even a sport to many sport fans?

And his OffTheBike achievements and legacy have already eclipsed his OnTheBike achievements and legacy anyway. And I sure bet Lance has a beautifully crafted Mea Culpa that will deal with the doping, and he will read it someday to his OffTheBike fans and they WILL forgive him.

Hmmmm -I agree with you to a point. After the EPO samples saga of 2005 he went on Larry King and denied any involvement by saying some "Jean-Francis so and so" could have spiked his sample. Viewers not familiar with Cycling would have given him the benefit and judged him on his words and reputation.

The thing about the Lemond v Trek case is it exposes Lance - not as a doper, but as a manipulative liar - which in the 'Court of public opinion is usually worse than an all out sanction.

When LA made his return last year he enjoyed a favorable - if not downright gushing - return from the MSM. If this case goes to trial in April how many people will be waving 'Hope Rides Again" banners in California in May?

 

[filipo]

Dude, a guy who just murdered 13 people had deep ties to Islamic terrorism and the media is doing everything to ignore that fact. He is being sold to us as just a nut. Don't try and estimate what they are capable of ignoring.

"Ties," maybe. "Deep ties"? Not sure about that one. At any rate, unless you have first-hand sources (that is, the murderer or his interrogators), all you have is what "the media" is telling you. Else where did you get it from?

 

[flicker]

3 vs. 7

Don't you think the fact that Lance won 7 and Greg won 3 could possibly be a base is towards another litigation against TREK.

Greg could also sue God for his misfortunes in life as well as sueing God for being unable to be the same age as Lance so as to compete in the tour against Lance.

So many attornys are out of work right now please Greg give them some more work.

PS My name is Fred and if you ever sue me please be decent and leave my ex wives out of it.

 

[Race Radio]

Please guys, there is another forum for this political stuff. Lets try to keep this thread about Lemond and what kind of Meds BPC is on.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

Hmmmm -I agree with you to a point. After the EPO samples saga of 2005 he went on Larry King and denied any involvement by saying some "Jean-Francis so and so" could have spiked his sample. Viewers not familiar with Cycling would have given him the benefit and judged him on his words and reputation.

The thing about the Lemond v Trek case is it exposes Lance - not as a doper, but as a manipulative liar - which in the 'Court of public opinion is usually worse than an all out sanction.

When LA made his return last year he enjoyed a favorable - if not downright gushing - return from the MSM. If this case goes to trial in April how many people will be waving 'Hope Rides Again" banners in California in May?

I don't think so, but it will depend on whether it catches the national media in a big way. I don't think it will, and I don't think the media will want to turn on LA, especially after his comeback this year. The US media doesn't turn on a dim like that - it just makes themselves look bad.

And remember that you and others believe that your interpretation of LA's behaviour is the natural truth that everyone will see once revealed. That's one of the illusions people who are into alternative thinking often suffer from. It's the bubble effect. If it is reported in a big way, it will be in a much more balanced fashion than here.

I know everyone is desperate for the doping allegations to be front and centre, but I'm sure a lot of the case could well be boring contractural disputes. That will be another turn off.

 

[ggusta]

"Ties," maybe. "Deep ties"? Not sure about that one. At any rate, unless you have first-hand sources (that is, the murderer or his interrogators), all you have is what "the media" is telling you. Else where did you get it from?

This is off topic, I will go into the cafe and post the variety of sources later tonight.

But to me, it's indicative of how easily the media is able to shape opinion usually by Ommision rather than Commission. The administration has made it clear this isn't islamic terrorism, and the mainstream media dutifully gets in line.

Deep ties. Undoubtedly.

 

[Hugh Januss]

.............................. and what kind of Meds BPC is on.

Don't you mean not on, he's clearly been skipping them.

 

[Race Radio]

That's one of the illusions people who are into alternative thinking often suffer from.

You sound like someone talking from experience

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't think so....

If you read my post I said LA's career going forward could be met with apathy - by all means share your opinion, but do not try to distort mine.

Also - since you are here - can you provide the information I was looking for earlier, the bit about Trek having it in their contract with Lemond that he was not allowed to discuss individual dopers, thanks.

 

[scribe]

I think INdurain's 5 might have been an easier case.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Don't you think the fact that Lance won 7 and Greg won 3 could possibly be a base is towards another litigation against TREK.

Greg could also sue God for his misfortunes in life as well as sueing God for being unable to be the same age as Lance so as to compete in the tour against Lance.

So many attornys are out of work right now please Greg give them some more work.

PS My name is Fred and if you ever sue me please be decent and leave my ex wives out of it.

I think the 7 v 3 is the ratio Lance has over Greg to taking legal action.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

If you read my post I said LA's career going forward could be met with apathy - by all means share your opinion, but do not try to distort mine.

***Wanted to find something to disagree with BPC but couldn't so pretended he distorted something***

Also - since you are here - can you provide the information I was looking for earlier, the bit about Trek having it in their contract with Lemond that he was not allowed to discuss individual dopers, thanks.

I don't have access to the contract - I said this. But we do have access to Greg LeMond's remarks, today's cycling news article. As I said before, it would be nice to have greater clarity on this issue. Why does LeMond say contractual issues stopped him from speaking out and making himself "even more hated"??? I hope we can get to the bottom of this.

 

[British Pro Cycling]

From the original article that started the thread, at the bottom of page 4 of the article...

While the company (Trek) forbids doping among teams it sponsors, it also told LeMond that as a contractual partner, he could criticize doping only generally - not point his finger at specific athletes, particularly one that happens to be the company's main cash cow.

 

[filipo]

Please guys, there is another forum for this political stuff. Lets try to keep this thread about Lemond and what kind of Meds BPC is on.

Sorry. I didn't want to argue the facts of the Hasan issue, I just wanted to point out that the "mainstream media" conspiracy is about 95 percent bunk. That reporters and editors are often lazy and incompetent, sure -- but that there's some sort of group will behind it is just silly.

This is not to directly disagree with ggusta's point about shaping the message, just that I think the process is a little less coherent.

GG, you say you're going to post your sources. My point is that, if your sources are "media" -- regardless of slant or provenance -- then you can't argue about "the media" trying to bury the issue. You can argue Newspaper X or Channel Zero is burying it, but to argue against "the media" isn't really correct.

 

[filipo]

I don't think so, but it will depend on whether it catches the national media in a big way. I don't think it will, and I don't think the media will want to turn on LA, especially after his comeback this year. The US media doesn't turn on a dim like that - it just makes themselves look bad.

HA hahahahahahhaaaaaaaa...

I will resist asking what insight into the U.S. media living in the UK gives you, and instead just point out one of a bajillion examples of "the media" turning on a dime: John McCain. He went from being POW hero to wife-swapping, favor-buying scum to trusted, respected Senator (with a real heart for campaign reform and climate issues) to a no-hope presidential candidate with a climate-change denier on his ticket. All within a couple of decades. And that's not discussing politics, by the way -- like it or not, those were the dominant McCain memes of their time.

You want cycling examples? You mean besides Floyd and Tyler?

 

[blackcat]

Armstrong, even with Livestrong for profit, Livestrong not for proft but for his PR (I wont classify it as charity) Bill Stapleton, Knaggs or Naggs, and Public Strategies, they still are not a cabal who can control the message. They can seed the message, and develop the narrative. But there is a randomness for a trigger point, where Armstrong's reputation could hit, where the media hit this tipping point, which can be capricious and not anticipated. This case could be that straw.

The is no one person in the amorphous "media" who dictates the narrative. However 7 years ago, even after Walsh had been in Cyclesport with an article alleging Armstrong doping, there was no traction or penetration in the MSM media in the US. Since Armstrong retired, the myth has slowly frayed on the edges. The hero anti-hero dichotomy is his defense, the media cannot contemplate revision.

I think a potential trigger, more so than Lemond v Trek, is Armstrong v the Democrats. And if the Democrats can do a dirty tricks campaign as effective as the GOP. There are too many manifest lies and contradictions in Armstrong, for him not to be an easy mark in a heated political campaign. Carville could rip the fraudulent facade from Armstrong.

Yep, assumption is, he runs as a GOP candidate. Narrative is GOP like Schwarzenegger. Even tho he has been on record as a Dem.

Hopefully Lemond can feature in taking him down, now, or when Armstrong runs for the Texas gubernatorial office.

 

[ggusta]

Sorry. I didn't want to argue the facts of the Hasan issue, I just wanted to point out that the "mainstream media" conspiracy is about 95 percent bunk. That reporters and editors are often lazy and incompetent, sure -- but that there's some sort of group will behind it is just silly.

This is not to directly disagree with ggusta's point about shaping the message, just that I think the process is a little less coherent.

GG, you say you're going to post your sources. My point is that, if your sources are "media" -- regardless of slant or provenance -- then you can't argue about "the media" trying to bury the issue. You can argue Newspaper X or Channel Zero is burying it, but to argue against "the media" isn't really correct.

Can you help me understand where you draw the distinction between ties and deep ties? That's obviously a very big deal to you.

tell ya' what, I am not in the mood to argue with my fellow cyclists on anything that even hints at politics. Over the years, I have found it to be a terrible waste of time and energy. Shall we agree to disagree? Or is the posting of a series of links that important to you? Seems quite likely you have already made up your mind. Been down this road with others, and it's quite a bore.

Your last paragraph sounds to me quite circular. "How can there be any dominant message if any other message contradicts it?" This doesn't sound like an argument that is in any way worthwhile.

 

[ggusta]

Armstrong, even with Livestrong for profit, Livestrong not for proft but for his PR (I wont classify it as charity) Bill Stapleton, Knaggs or Naggs, and Public Strategies, they still are not a cabal who can control the message. They can seed the message, and develop the narrative. But there is a randomness for a trigger point, where Armstrong's reputation could hit, where the media hit this tipping point, which can be capricious and not anticipated. This case could be that straw.

The is no one person in the amorphous "media" who dictates the narrative. However 7 years ago, even after Walsh had been in Cyclesport with an article alleging Armstrong doping, there was no traction or penetration in the MSM media in the US. Since Armstrong retired, the myth has slowly frayed on the edges. The hero anti-hero dichotomy is his defense, the media cannot contemplate revision.

I think a potential trigger, more so than Lemond v Trek, is Armstrong v the Democrats. And if the Democrats can do a dirty tricks campaign as effective as the GOP. There are too many manifest lies and contradictions in Armstrong, for him not to be an easy mark in a heated political campaign. Carville could rip the fraudulent facade from Armstrong.

Yep, assumption is, he runs as a GOP candidate. Narrative is GOP like Schwarzenegger. Even tho he has been on record as a Dem.

Hopefully Lemond can feature in taking him down, now, or when Armstrong runs for the Texas gubernatorial office.

He doesn't strike me as any type of conservative. he may run as repub. in TX out of political convenience since the political winds are blowing their way, but many repubs are rino's and if he declares as repub, he would definitely be of the rino variety.

He tries to play it down the middle like bono from U2, but the giveaway is that gov't is always the principle agent of change in anything I have seen him agree with. That is either a democrat or at least a left leaning repub. He's no Conservative. Y'all are welcome to him. He has always struck me as a Limo Liberal.

 

[BikeCentric]

He doesn't strike me as any type of conservative. he may run as repub. in TX out of political convenience since the political winds are blowing their way, but many repubs are rino's and if he declares as repub, he would definitely be of the rino variety.

He tries to play it down the middle like bono from U2, but the giveaway is that gov't is always the principle agent of change in anything I have seen him agree with. That is either a democrat or at least a left leaning repub. He's no Conservative. Y'all are welcome to him. He has always struck me as a Limo Liberal.

Please can we stop with the politics? I actually like Politics myself but I'll go to Politics sites to read about them, this thread is for the LeMond / Trek trial.