Lemond's Legacy: How Lemond Changed Cycling

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Jul 26, 2009
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blutto said:
....gee is this the same Fignon that rode off the front several times on the last lap... didn't look like he rode him off that effectively and that repeatedly if Fignon was still there until the very end of the last lap attacking....

...the last lap as described in Abt's book...

"In that chase group. Fignon goes for it, pouring on the power as they surge up the last climb of the Côte de la Montagnole. LeMond covers him. Fignon tries to go again. Only for LeMond again to cover his move. But the two have broken clear. Then Sean Kelly bridges across and the three behind catch the three in front.

Under the flame rouge and it's Fignon attacking again. And again LeMond is on his wheel. Two hundred metres to go, another attack. LeMond's. Konichev, Kelly and Rooks respond. And finish second, third and fourth. Three seconds later, Laurent Fignon crosses the line, sixth."

...and this from the Columbia Encyclopedia....

" Fignon attacked incessantly in the wet, treacherous finale, but LeMond marked his rival...."...note the term marked but oddly no rode off or dropped ...

...btw would love a reference to the broken wheel story....

Cheers
LeMond gapped him on the last climb, and then did a lot of the work pulling back riders that jumped off the front of their final group. Then, of course, he won the sprint. LeMond was a cautious rider, not a wheel sucker. Generally, he conserved his energy until the right time to make a move. The wheel sucker tag was generally given to him by the European press who were quite irked that an American could compete, and win, at that level. The knocks against LeMond that were heard over and over: not aggressive enough (not reckless, perhaps, as both Hinault and Fignon often were), got too fat in the off season, ate too many cheeseburgers, returned home to the US too often, never should have been hunting in the first place, and on and on.

At his peak, LeMond was just a little better than Fignon in almost every category, TT, climbing, and descending. He was a smart, tactical racer, as well. Europeans wanted him to race like Hinault, and blow up like Hinault. Even Alexi Grewal ridiculed Hinault's tactics in the 86 Tour. That's saying something.
 
Sep 8, 2009
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well i kind of like his eurosport work to be honest. very relaxed and nice towards the riders. anyway,definitely better than kelly
 
LeMond

LeMond - what a shiny ****...his interview with Talansky during the team presentation was embarassing. He was so star struck (I mean Talansky I ask yer) it was like watching a child at the school play.

And then his interview with Geraint Thomas was another pathetic show of a man in awe of the riders.

He should lose some weight and come down to earth. I will bet my last quid that he NEVER mentions doping or any other controversial matter during this Tour.

Last year he also avoided commenting on Team Sky or Froome's ridiculous performances.

Lemond - idiot.
 
jens_attacks said:
well i kind of like his eurosport work to be honest. very relaxed and nice towards the riders. anyway,definitely better than kelly
I much prefer Kelly and his funereal tones. He also shows much more insight into the racing. Lemond I think is catering for the public not cycling fans. It's like the Idiots Guide To Cycling but if Eurosport think he's worth it, that's all that matters. I do agree that he is relaxed and nice. I was hoping he would offer a bit more than that.
 
movingtarget said:
I much prefer Kelly and his funereal tones. He also shows much more insight into the racing. Lemond I think is catering for the public not cycling fans. It's like the Idiots Guide To Cycling but if Eurosport think he's worth it, that's all that matters. I do agree that he is relaxed and nice. I was hoping he would offer a bit more than that.
He seems to interrupt himself constantly.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Soloist said:
LeMond gapped him on the last climb, and then did a lot of the work pulling back riders that jumped off the front of their final group. Then, of course, he won the sprint. LeMond was a cautious rider, not a wheel sucker. Generally, he conserved his energy until the right time to make a move. The wheel sucker tag was generally given to him by the European press who were quite irked that an American could compete, and win, at that level. The knocks against LeMond that were heard over and over: not aggressive enough (not reckless, perhaps, as both Hinault and Fignon often were), got too fat in the off season, ate too many cheeseburgers, returned home to the US too often, never should have been hunting in the first place, and on and on.

At his peak, LeMond was just a little better than Fignon in almost every category, TT, climbing, and descending. He was a smart, tactical racer, as well. Europeans wanted him to race like Hinault, and blow up like Hinault. Even Alexi Grewal ridiculed Hinault's tactics in the 86 Tour. That's saying something.
...and all that on a broken wheel to boot ( or maybe not?...maybe you should contact head office to get your story straight and begin to enjoy the pleasure of marching in strict lockstep...and relieves the considerable pressure that goes with haphazardly back-filling a story thingee...)....as for Grewal ridiculing Hinault's boneheaded tactic ( which was pretty obvious to anyone with a pulse..like agreeing that the sun rises in the east.... ) Grewal ridiculed everything so just a genuine snafu on that front ( read: not really saying much of anything...)

...and as long as I have your undivided attention have to ask you exactly how you acertained Europeans wanted him to race like Hinault?....did your analysis include teasing out the specific response of....female type Europeans?....French speaking surrender monkeys?....Europeans whose mother tongue was Scandinavian?....how did Greeks, Italians, Spaniards and other swarthy Mediterranean types respond to this issue?....and among English speakers are you saying that the Scots, Irish and Brits finally agree on something?...

Cheers
 
Oct 26, 2012
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If you are reading this Greg, work on timing. Don't interrupt anyone else when they are talking. Take a deep breath before you speak and get into the flow. Silence, at the right time, is okay as long as it you are comfortable with it.

Presently you are totally out of sync with the other commentator and those you interview. You are trying "too hard" and your mind is causing your thoughts to get in the way of each other. The result is that what you say is fragmented, jerky, uncomfortable to the ears of the listener.

You're an intelligent fellow. Listen to how Mr. Kelly talks. Even though he's not got a super intellect, he's figured out how to optimize his abilities of speech because, most importantly, he's comfortable with himself and so it's comforting to hear him. He knows how to time his comments, like he knew how to race.

Pace yourself, Greg, and practice on "stilling" your mind.
 
kingjr said:
@PaulKimmage:


Watching @GregLemond schmoozing with Vinokourov on Eurosport. About to throw up.
Kimmage needs to take a deep breath instead of trying to spot dopers on every street corner. All the same he is usually correct. The jury is out on Lemond of course, most seem to think not, at least on this site. Vino was a rogue but kinda loveable.
 
Sep 8, 2009
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vino was very nice to lemond in interview and of course greg acted like a normal person, not some paranoid guy who just thinks "doper,doper arghhhhhhhh kill him".
seems like i'm the only person here who enjoys lemond as an eurosport expert?! and i'm not at all a greg lemond fanboy, everyone knows that.

vincent reno on the other hand, it's incredible that he still works for eurosport. the guy has no clue, can't even talk(not even french lol) and didn't lose weight all these years. laura meseguer the complete opposite. beautiful but has knowledge too. get rid of the fat frenchie plz
 
pat anjali said:
If you are reading this Greg, work on timing. Don't interrupt anyone else when they are talking...

Pace yourself, Greg, and practice on "stilling" your mind.
Greg is quite open about having the challenge of ADHD. He jokes about how his mind works - typical of his self-effacing humor, genuineness and humility.

Everyone here complaining about Greg's delivery may want educate themselves. For right now it is you who appear to be the "dumba$$es".

And quite amazing that Greg shows nothing but love to a sport that shunned him for 15 years (when he was right!) and doped riders who stole not only the end of his career but his ability to make millions after...have you seen the Oakley ads that are now appearing?

Would u rather have jalabert and virenque making further money off their fraudulent careers, or shouldn't Delion, Van Hooydonck and Bassons really being doing the commentating?
 
Big Doopie said:
Greg is quite open about having the challenge of ADHD. He jokes about how his mind works - typical of his self-effacing humor, genuineness and humility.

Everyone here complaining about Greg's delivery may want educate themselves. For right now it is you who appear to be the "dumba$$es".

And quite amazing that Greg shows nothing but love to a sport that shunned him for 15 years (when he was right!) and doped riders who stole not only the end of his career but his ability to make millions after...have you seen the Oakley ads that are now appearing?

Would u rather have jalabert and virenque making further money off their fraudulent careers, or shouldn't Delion, Van Hooydonck and Bassons really being doing the commentating?
This.

10 char
 
Sep 8, 2009
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i still don't understand why he's bad at it?? to me,he's definitely very clever, he explain things in order to be understood not only by hardcore fans, he's nice to the riders and definitely not boring. and stefano was/is always good. and both can talk. and i say that as an armstrong fan not lemond one. i think he's exactly like perico is at commentating,very nice,articulate,funny guys. i don't need nerds who can't even open their mouth in front of a microphone

and yes,sean kelly is the most dull thing in the solar system except the pluto rock.
 
This is what Greg said in an interview in today's la Gazzetta dello Sport when asked:

You heavily accused Armstrong, then you supported the intiative for a new cycling. How is our sport today?

"I raced to win, Armstrong always raced against everyone else and put a dark cloud over cycling, a sort of mafia that the sport didn't really need. The one that paid the most for this climate created by Armstrong was Marco Pantani, but he didn't deserve that. Now with Brian Cookson the situation is getting better. We needed transparency and to return to a credible cycling."

Now he's actually quite right on the Pantani affair, because the Italian was placed in crisis to pave the way for the American's dominance, but how can we really believe Cookson is the Messiah?
 
May 26, 2009
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Soloist said:
At his peak, LeMond was just a little better than Fignon in almost every category, TT, climbing, and descending.
And then reality came knocking when we look at 1984,. Greg never had that edge. Facts, a ******* for discussions as they are undeniable :D

Greg at his peak definitely was a little worse than Fignon at his peak and that's overwhelmingly supported by something we don't need to have an opinion for: RESULTS.
 
Franklin said:
And then reality came knocking when we look at 1984,. Greg never had that edge. Facts, a ******* for discussions as they are undeniable :D

Greg at his peak definitely was a little worse than Fignon at his peak and that's overwhelmingly supported by something we don't need to have an opinion for: RESULTS.
Naw, without the hunting accident things would have been different. Besides 3 Tours to 2 Tours plus 2 Worlds at the time speaks for itself, etc. Besides a peaked Fignon to an on the rebound Lemond lost the Tour in 89. ;)
 
Surely 2 Worlds > 2 Milan-Sanremo and a Walloon Arrow, right. :rolleyes:

LeMond stole a Bore de France to Fignon. Clip-ons were prohibited then, okay? Fignon was stolen a Tour of Italy and a Paris-Tours, too. Despite that fact, the Fignon palmarès is still way superior to the LeMond palmarès. Let alone the Kelly palmares.

The three palmares according to my system:

Greg LeMond

3 Dauphiné 1981 2
2 Worlds 1982 4
2 Tour Med 1982 1
3 Tirreno 1982 1
World Championship 1983 9
Dauphiné-libéré 1983 4
2 Lombardy 1983 4
2 Nations 1983 1
4 Switzerland 1983 2
4 Paris-Tours 1983 2
10 Flèche wallonne 1983 2
10 Tirreno 1983 1
3 Tour de France 1984 8
3 Liège Bastogne 1984 4
3 Dauphiné 1984 2
5 Tirreno 1984 1
7 Netherlands 1984 1
8 Crit int. 1984 1
9 Ghent Wevelgem 1984 2
Coors Classic 1985 2
2 Worlds 1985 4
2 Tour of France 1985 8
2 Pais Vasco 1985 1
St Tour 1985 3
3 Giro 1985 7
4 Paris-Roubaix 1985 5
4 Ghent-Ghent 1985 1
4 Crit int. 1985 1
6 Tour med 1985 1
7 Flanders 1985 2
Tour de France 1986 20
St Tour 1986 3
2 Coors Classic 1986 1
2 Milan Sanremo 1986 4
3 Paris Nice 1986 4
3 Switzerland 1986 2
3 Crit int 1986 1
4 Tour of Italy 1986 7
St Italy 1986 2
4 Zurich 1986 1
4 Flèche wallonne 1986 4
7 Worlds 1986 2
World Championship 1989 9
Tour de France 1989 20
4 Crit int. 1989 1
3 St Tour 1989 9
6 Tirreno 1989 1
Tour of France 1990 20
2 Zurich 1990 1
4 Worlds 1990 4
10 Switzerland 1990 1
7 Tour of France 1991 6
4 Switzerland 1992 2
9 Paris Roubaix 1992 3
Greg LeMond 215


Laurent Fignon

Criterium international 1982 2
15 Italy 1982 3
Tour of France 1983 20
St Tour 1983 3
7 Spain 1983 2
7 Tirreno 1983 1
Tour of France 1984 20
5 St France 1984 15
2 Italy 1984 7
Montain Italy 1984 1
St Italy 1984 2
4 Nations 1984 1
7 Romandy 1984 1
8 Liège Bastogne 1984 2
2 Tour Midi Pyrenées 1985 1
3 Flèche wallonne 1985 4
3 Flèche brabançonne 1985 1
5 Liège Bastogne 1985 4
Flèche wallonne 1986 9
2 Nations 1986 1
6 Aude 1986 1
7 De Panne 1986 1
7 Vuelta 1986 2
8 Tour med 1986 1
2 Luxembourg 1987 1
3 Spain 1987 4
3 Paris Nice 1987 4
5 Criterium international 1987 1
6 Liège Bastogne 1987 2
6 Catalunya 1987 1
7 Tour of France 1987 6
St Tour 1987 3
Milan Sanremo 1988 10
2 Nations 1988 1
2 Paris Brussels 1988 2
2 Crit int 1988 1
3 Paris Roubaix 1988 5
4 Route du sud 1988 1
5 Paris-Nice 1988 4
8 Worlds 1988 2
8 Netherlands 1988 1
Tour of Italy 1989 16
St Italy 1989 2
Milan Sanremo 1989 10
Nations 1989 3
Netherlands 1989 2
Baracchi Trophy 1989 2
2 Tour of France 1989 8
St France 1989 3
4 Romandy 1989 2
6 Worlds 1989 2
6 Tour med 1989 1
6 Crit int. 1989 1
7 Liège Bastogne 1989 2
7 Haut Var 1989 1
Criterium international 1990 2
4 Paris Nice 1990 4
8 Route du sud 1990 1
6 Tour of France 1991 6
10 Paris Nice 1991 2
St Tour 1992 3
23 France 1992 2
Laurent Fignon 229


..and for uncultivated "fans" who don't know anything but Bore, the best palmares of the eighties:

Sean Kelly

2 Netherlands 1977 1
10 Romandy 1977 1
10 Midi-libre 1977 1
2 Union GP 1979 1
9 Worlds 1979 2
9 Belgium 1979 1
10 Ghent 1979 1
2 Brabant 1980 1
2 Haut-Var 1980 1
2 E3 1980 1
3 Amstel 1980 1
3 Ghent 1980 1
4 Vuelta 1980 4
4 Milan-Sanremo 1980 4
4 Belgium 1980 1
2 St France 1980 6
2 Dunkirk 1981 1
4 Arrow 1981 4
5 Francfurt 1981 1
6 Amstel 1981 1
6 Haut-Var 1981 1
6 Catalan Week 1981 1
8 Flanders 1981 2
9 Belgium 1981 1
9 Zurich 1981 1
St France 1981 3
Paris-Nice 1982 9
4 St Paris-Nice 1982 4
Haut-Var 1982 2
3 Worlds 1982 4
3 Francfurt 1982 1
3 Ghent 1982 1
4 Amstel 1982 1
5 Piedmont 1982 1
6 International Crit. 1982 1
7 Aude 1982 1
8 Arrow 1982 2
10 Liège-Bastogne 1982 2
15 France 1982 4
St France 1982 3
Lombardy 1983 10
Paris-Nice 1983 9
3 St Paris-Nice 1983 3
Switzerland 1983 4
International Crit. 1983 2
2 Piedmont 1983 1
5 Milan-Sanremo 1983 4
7 France 1983 6
8 Worlds 1983 2
9 Paris-Tours 1983 2
Paris-Nice 1984 9
2 St Paris-Nice 1984 2
Paris-Roubaix 1984 12
Paris-Tours 1984 6
Liège-Bastogne 1984 9
Basque Country 1984 2
Catalunya 1984 2
International Crit. 1984 2
2 Milan-Sanremo 1984 4
2 Flanders 1984 4
2 Nations GP 1984 2
3 Francfurt 1984 1
4 Switzerland 1984 2
5 France 1984 8
9 Med Tour 1984 1
Lombardy 1985 10
Paris-Nice 1985 9
2 De Panne 1985 1
2 Catalunya 1985 1
3 Paris-Roubaix 1985 5
3 Paris-Tours 1985 2
3 International 1985 1
4 France 1985 8
4 Liège-Bastogne 1985 4
4 Switzerland 1985 2
5 Paris-Brussels 1985 2
6 Basque Country 1985 1
7 Milan-Sanremo 1985 2
7 Nations GP 1985 1
7 Wevelgem 1985 2
9 Vuelta 1985 2
9 Netherlands 1985 1
10 E3 1985 1
10 Piedmont 1985 1
Paris-Nice 1986 9
3 St Paris-Nice 1986 3
Paris-Roubaix 1986 12
Milan-Sanremo 1986 10
Nations GP 1986 4
Basque Country 1986 2
Catalunya 1986 2
2 Flanders 1986 4
2 Lombardy 1986 4
2 Paris-Brussels 1986 2
2 De Panne 1986 1
2 International 1986 1
3 Vuelta 1986 4
5 Worlds 1986 4
6 Paris-Tours 1986 2
6 Arrow 1986 2
Paris-Nice 1987 9
St Paris-Nice 1987 1
Basque Country 1987 2
International Crit. 1987 2
2 Flanders 1987 4
2 De Panne 1987 1
4 Milan-Sanremo 1987 4
4 Paris-Brussels 1987 2
4 Nations GP 1987 2
4 Midi-libre 1987 1
5 Catalunya 1987 1
5 Worlds 1987 4
Wevelgem 1988 6
Vuelta 1988 9
Paris-Nice 1988 9
2 St Paris-Nice 1988 2
Catalan Week 1988 3
Haut-Var 1988 2
3 Paris-Tours 1988 2
4 Flanders 1988 4
5 Milan-Sanremo 1988 4
5 Lazio 1988 1
7 Ghent 1988 1
Liège-Bastogne 1989 9
2 Ghent 1989 1
3 Worlds 1989 4
3 Baracchi 1989 1
5 Milan-Sanremo 1989 4
6 De Panne 1989 1
7 Paris-Tours 1989 2
7 Tirreno 1989 1
9 France 1989 6
9 Paris-Brussels 1989 1
9 Piedmont 1989 1
15 Paris-Roubaix 1989 2
Tour of Switzerland 1990 4
2 Wincanton 1990 1
3 Clasica 1990 1
5 Worlds 1990 4
6 Montreal 1990 1
6 Tirreno 1990 1
8 Paris-Tours 1990 2
8 International 1990 1
9 Catalunya 1990 1
10 Lombardy 1990 2
30 France 1990 2
Tour of Lombardy 1991 10
4 Milan-Turin 1991 1
Milan-Sanremo 1992 10
4 Paris-Tours 1993 1
Sean Kelly 462



So now please stop with your LeMond ... :rolleyes:
 
rhubroma said:
Naw, without the hunting accident things would have been different. Besides 3 Tours to 2 Tours plus 2 Worlds at the time speaks for itself, etc. Besides a peaked Fignon to an on the rebound Lemond lost the Tour in 89. ;)
agreed generally.

i think both sides have a point. fignon was untouchable in 1984 and -- because of injury -- we never saw that fignon again (even in 1989).

lemond -- though sick throughout much of that tour still finished third. would he have challenged if healthy. personally, i doubt it.

however, lemond in 1986 could have won by 15 minutes probably had he been allowed to express himself fully in the mountains -- he played the team game even the day he took the yellow jersey from hinault -- he never relayed zimmermann. lemond -- yes -- was cautious/tactical at times, he was also somewhat of a fish out of water joining the euro peloton as an american at the time and that might explain a lot. he was also a team player both to hinault and later to pensec.

like fignon's 1984. we never really saw the lemond of 1986 ever again.

however, if you watch the swiss tv version of the WCs in 1983, listen to merckx -- he comments that even he never won a WC alone by that much. no one in modern times won a WC by that much alone.

he was 23...

scary what could have been.

and then you add tactical sense. his tour win in 1989 was probably the greatest tactical win in cycling that i can think of. and the wc win that followed was as brilliant. he let fignon attack too soon. then pounced and crushed fignon as he passed him. he chased down almost every attack in the leading group despite kelly's arrival and then started the sprint from in front with over 300m to go.
 
Echoes said:
Surely 2 Worlds > 2 Milan-Sanremo and a Walloon Arrow, right. :rolleyes:

LeMond stole a Bore de France to Fignon. Clip-ons were prohibited then, okay? ...
i had to stop right there as you repeated this oft-repeated lie.

first, kelly is not comparable. he is not even in the same league. he was a great champion, but just NOT in the same league.

as for what ifs... that is completely ridiculous. lemond should have won 1985. no one would have beaten him in 1987 and 88 and without epo another tour or two could have been his...

but forget "what ifs". that is a game only you are playing.

Le Monde newspaper did a poll of FRENCH people at the turn of the century and LeMond was voted the second greatest cyclist of the 20th century...

:eek::eek::eek:
 
May 26, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Naw, without the hunting accident things would have been different.
1. Irrelevent. I'm not claiming lemond was stronger at everything at his peak.
2. Unless you are clarivoyant your opinion has no gtround whatsoever.

Besides 3 Tours to 2 Tours plus 2 Worlds at the time speaks for itself, etc. Besides a peaked Fignon to an on the rebound Lemond lost the Tour in 89. ;)
1. Irrelevant. We are talking peaks.
2. Fignons peak was 1984 as you fully well know.
3. Fignon faced Hinault mano a mano. Greg had him as teammate. Fignon CRUSHED Hinault. Greg was extremely lucky to win.
4. The quality and breadth of the palmares of Fignon absolutely DWARVES Lemond. Care to count GT stages? Or podia finishes? Or classics?

Facts, still a ***** in discussions as they blow away silly myths. I'm sorrry, this is just no contest. Greg can only beat Fignon in a "what if" the results are crystal clear.

Oh and for laughs. Greg the P-R lover nver hit the podium. Guess what Laurent did?
 
May 26, 2009
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Big Doopie said:
Le Monde newspaper did a poll of FRENCH people at the turn of the century and LeMond was voted the second greatest cyclist of the 20th century...
So what. Palmares wise Greg has no spot on the top 3. Merckx, Hinault, Coppi, Anquetil all pulverize him. And even Fignon beats him hands down.

We are not talking opinion, these are not what if's. These are solid recorded wins :D
 

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