Lessons from Lance

[flicker]

"when someone's performance is too good to be true, is just simply too good to be true"

All good. Does that go for viagra also.?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dude, calm down. I was being facetious. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves. You take this **** too serious.

My post had a roll eyes emoticon affixed to it. Your post had no emoticon of any kind, which means you are the one taking it too seriously.

 

[hfer07]

All good. Does that go for viagra also.?

I don't need it, so I can't tell- but how's it working for you so far?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

thanks you made my day flicker now I can wear my black 28 Jersey around the house.

Did you just respond to yourself while forgetting to switch accounts?

 

[red_flanders]

I just want to say that I have enjoyed the run. I have defended Lance and Levi. It has now become unstylish to like him or any other of his fellow teams trainers or teamates. I have been warned by the moderators not to defend him. I have finally been broken I know that it is useless and anyone who associates with Lance is history. The moderators have warned me, I hang my head in shame.
Please if there are any more lessons to learn from the fallacy that I have been living, being entertained by the yellow banded one please posters fill me in.
Do not be gentle. Fred aka flicker

I'll wager that's a fairly loose interpretation of what you were told.

I would certainly find this place useless if you were actually told that.

 

[buckwheat]

Back to the OP.

What I've learned from Lance is that now matter how big of a douchebag you are, eventually it catches up with you.

PS.

Mods please lock it up....

 

[SpartacusRox]

Back to the OP.

What I've learned from Lance is that now matter how big of a douchebag you are, eventually it catches up with you.

PS.

Mods please lock it up....

Best watch your step then Buckwheat.

 

[roadfreak44]

What i learned from a hospital bed

When you have terminal cancer and youre only 25 and you know youre going to die life becomes hopelessly bleak. When a star like Lance Armstrong unexpectedly shows up in your hospital room it is like the sun shining into a very dark place . I know most of you derogatory a*+wipes dont believe me but you dont even have to be a star. Why dont some of you go to the local cancer ward and visit with a terminal kid or whoever is there. Just sit and chat with them . Then youll understand what I have learned from Lance.
I guarantee its way more useful information than the pathetic mudslinging i have seen here foisted by a pack of hyenas that contribute exactly what to the world ?

"if THERE ARE ENOUGH OF THEM even a pack of mangy hyenas can bring down a lion..."

Lets face folks ...lance is a lion....

and you.....

 

[Anonymous]

When you have terminal cancer and youre only 25 and you know youre going to die life becomes hopelessly bleak. When a star like Lance Armstrong unexpectedly shows up in your hospital room it is like the sun shining into a very dark place . I know most of you derogatory a*+wipes dont believe me but you dont even have to be a star. Why dont some of you go to the local cancer ward and visit with a terminal kid or whoever is there. Just sit and chat with them . Then youll understand what I have learned from Lance.
I guarantee its way more useful information than the pathetic mudslinging i have seen here foisted by a pack of hyenas that contribute exactly what to the world ?

"if THERE ARE ENOUGH OF THEM even a pack of mangy hyenas can bring down a lion..."

Lets face folks ...lance is a lion....

and you.....

Are honest. Am trustworthy. I don't perpetuate lies. I don't profit from a horriffic illnes (livestrong.com).

Lance is a liar and a cheater and I'm neither.

 

[Apolitical]

When you have terminal cancer and youre only 25 and you know youre going to die life becomes hopelessly bleak...
Lets face folks ...lance is a lion....

and you.....

A room mate of mine died of testicular cancer in '94. Prior to his diagnosis he was an upcoming cat3 racer who'd win a race one week and then have a really off week the next. I was with him for all his treatment and when he died. I have family members who are cancer survivors.

Most of us probably know someone who's had or died of cancer. I donate money every year to cancer research among other worthwhile causes. I do not need a celebrity to follow to make the donations. Research out the organizations you want to donate to and then donate directly to them because of what it means to you and not because you idolize someone representing the organization.

 

[roadfreak44]

honesty? where?

Are honest. Am trustworthy. I don't perpetuate lies. I don't profit from a horriffic illnes (livestrong.com).

Lance is a liar and a cheater and I'm neither.

sorry dude I cant buy the honesty thing. You see when there are ONLY Allegations that means there are only hypothesis concerning an event or person. Until PROVEN in law or science the hypothesis is at best semi informed conjecture. Admittedly in LA s case there is a lot of circumstantial evidence from landis who like yourself is an incredibly honest person who has no axe to grind whatsoever and from lemond also a very clear honest person who also has no axe whatsoever (that probably none of us can think of:_) to grind well eXcept for the trek thing and the faded yesterdays news has been star replaced by lance thing and frankie boy who also like yourself is incredibly honest (well except for the bit in court where he was publicly forced to recant a few lies about LA has no axe to grind either well except maybe for the 500K Lance wouldnt fork over to him for a bike shop...but hey im just being honest here... and all of them like yourself are really clearly motivated people just wanting to make the world a place that is safe from the brooding conspiracy and evil that is armstrong.... Now then if it was a case where la was accused then proven to be a cheat etc you would be honest and I would be offering you praise and accolades but that is clearly not the case here. we are still dealing with allegations which may or may not be true ,however, which when voiced without proof from where I sit sound like the snarlings of a pack of disgruntled mangy...what was it again? oh yes ...hyenas...if you actually were honest you wouldnt be trading in allegations that havent been proven and acting as if they already had. Lets be totally clear about what honesty really is here since obviously the concept seems to be eluding you. ...as for las "profiting" from cancer...do you HONESTLY have any idea of how many thousands of cancer patients he has visited? how many he has helped?.do you have any idea of what it is like to have given up on life and have someone of his stature come through the doOr of yoUR room and sit by you while you lie there hopeless and dying ?.YOU WOULD DENY THAT THAT TO MANY THAT SUFFER AND IF HE FALLS YOU WILL DENY IT ..how many MILLIONS of dollars he has raised and DONATED to research and how exactly many $$$ he has taken form the foundation as founder? .c'mon lets have at least a little tiny bit of honesty from you and the other hyenas...come up with detective work on that and maybe ill give you the tiniest bit of street cred...until then...try to work on the honesty thing because none of you are...
I raced for quite awhile and had my *** kicked by some guys I knew were doping and I hated it..It Is infuriating to train your *** off only to lose to a known doper. MAYBE THE DOPING DIDNT M,AKE THEM FAST MAYBE THEY TRaineD BETTER THAN I DID however If lance is found guilty ill be the first in line to kick him in the ball...but for just one second...what if he isnt? what if he actually is a freak of nature? will you be lining uop to apologize for the hyena routine if he dioesnt fall?...I can tell you that honestly as a cancer survivor I would never put anything in my body that could cause me to be ill again...ditto for EVERY SURVIVOR i know .cant honestly speak for La tho...
Im all for honesty ...lets actually keep it that way...but I know thats a lot to ask from a hyena...

 

[VeloCity]

what if he actually is a freak of nature?

He's not. Never has been. A great athlete, unquestionably, but a freak of nature, no. Like just about every top GC rider of his generation, he was doping and he wouldn't have won squat if he hadn't of been doping.

I really can't understand why that's so hard to wrap your head around.

 

[flicker]

sorry dude I cant buy the honesty thing. You see when there are ONLY Allegations that means there are only hypothesis concerning an event or person. Until PROVEN in law or science the hypothesis is at best semi informed conjecture. Admittedly in LA s case there is a lot of circumstantial evidence from landis who like yourself is an incredibly honest person who has no axe to grind whatsoever and from lemond also a very clear honest person who also has no axe whatsoever (that probably none of us can think of:_) to grind well eXcept for the trek thing and the faded yesterdays news has been star replaced by lance thing and frankie boy who also like yourself is incredibly honest (well except for the bit in court where he was publicly forced to recant a few lies about LA has no axe to grind either well except maybe for the 500K Lance wouldnt fork over to him for a bike shop...but hey im just being honest here... and all of them like yourself are really clearly motivated people just wanting to make the world a place that is safe from the brooding conspiracy and evil that is armstrong.... Now then if it was a case where la was accused then proven to be a cheat etc you would be honest and I would be offering you praise and accolades but that is clearly not the case here. we are still dealing with allegations which may or may not be true ,however, which when voiced without proof from where I sit sound like the snarlings of a pack of disgruntled mangy...what was it again? oh yes ...hyenas...if you actually were honest you wouldnt be trading in allegations that havent been proven and acting as if they already had. Lets be totally clear about what honesty really is here since obviously the concept seems to be eluding you. ...as for las "profiting" from cancer...do you HONESTLY have any idea of how many thousands of cancer patients he has visited? how many he has helped?.do you have any idea of what it is like to have given up on life and have someone of his stature come through the doOr of yoUR room and sit by you while you lie there hopeless and dying ?.YOU WOULD DENY THAT THAT TO MANY THAT SUFFER AND IF HE FALLS YOU WILL DENY IT ..how many MILLIONS of dollars he has raised and DONATED to research and how exactly many $$$ he has taken form the foundation as founder? .c'mon lets have at least a little tiny bit of honesty from you and the other hyenas...come up with detective work on that and maybe ill give you the tiniest bit of street cred...until then...try to work on the honesty thing because none of you are...
I raced for quite awhile and had my *** kicked by some guys I knew were doping and I hated it..It Is infuriating to train your *** off only to lose to a known doper. MAYBE THE DOPING DIDNT M,AKE THEM FAST MAYBE THEY TRaineD BETTER THAN I DID however If lance is found guilty ill be the first in line to kick him in the ball...but for just one second...what if he isnt? what if he actually is a freak of nature? will you be lining uop to apologize for the hyena routine if he dioesnt fall?...I can tell you that honestly as a cancer survivor I would never put anything in my body that could cause me to be ill again...ditto for EVERY SURVIVOR i know .cant honestly speak for La tho...
Im all for honesty ...lets actually keep it that way...but I know thats a lot to ask from a hyena...

I will not convict him in my own heart. I do not have time for hate. I do think he has benefited American cycling along with LeMond. I will leave it there.

 

[Neworld]

I learned....

that nice guys do not always have to finish last.

Seriously Polish? Nice guys... who are you referring to?

Are you referring to Lance: a nice guy. Com'on Polish you didn't actually write that?


I have learned from Lance that his brainwashed mob of seculars may sound sophisticated on paper but they really don't allow themselves to listen to facts.

NW

 

[roadfreak44]

A room mate of mine died of testicular cancer in '94. Prior to his diagnosis he was an upcoming cat3 racer who'd win a race one week and then have a really off week the next. I was with him for all his treatment and when he died. I have family members who are cancer survivors.

Most of us probably know someone who's had or died of cancer. I donate money every year to cancer research among other worthwhile causes. I do not need a celebrity to follow to make the donations. Research out the organizations you want to donate to and then donate directly to them because of what it means to you and not because you idolize someone representing the organization.

YOu my friend are 100% correct. That wasnt my intent on thread of thought tho...I think lance is a lion not because he won the tour de france but because he couldve easily just turned his back on the experience of cancer but he stood up for the cause and has donated a lot of time and MONEY to it...That is what i applaud...to have to listen to others who contributes none of their time energy or money to it and can only be derogatory of anothers positive efforts is f***ing pathetic..What i am proposing here is that people do contribute to the fight with money but more with their time and personal energy. Go to a clinic where there are kids,. Take whatever skill you have with you. I am a storyteller and kids are delighted when I show up, Cant say that it cures them but over half the battle with cancer is the mental part. LAs showing up at a clinic doesnt cure anybody but it doesnt hurt either .anyone want to take betsd tjhat LA will still visit cancer clinics even if he is dethroned and penniless? Wouldnt hurt if anyone on this forum got involved...Want to make the world a better place ?stop beign a hyena, attacking people and instead attack problems...thats the best solution I know of to make the world a better place...honestly...

 

[Neworld]

... MAYBE THE DOPING DIDNT M,AKE THEM FAST MAYBE THEY TRaineD BETTER THAN I DID however If lance is found guilty...

Brother,

Cancer has affected every person on the planet in our own intimate way.

About LA, sure he had cancer but what came first his philanthropic millionaire status or his PROVEN doping (direct and indirect evidence) which catapulted his above average skills into beyond reality cycling capabilities amoungst other known dopers?

The dope allowed him to win, and win and win...7 times. Then came the money, then came the fame, then came the LAF...in that order.

Now remove the doping, the wins fall aside and he's just a cancer survivor like millions of others. But he's worse because he has perpetuated the lies, lived the lies and still lies. That is vile my friend.

PS: if he wants to clear his name once and for all why doesn't he allow WADA or anyone (Caitlin) to retest his 1999 TdF urine, or his 2001 TdSuisse samples if those are still around. Why doesn't he take a lie detector test, why doesn't he allow us to test his VO2Max, lung capacity, cardiac output, Lactate levels...to make us 'believe".

You're a good person, don't follow down his direction.

NW

 

[Barracuda]

You see I did learn from Lance. Seriously though no joke. It looks like everyone who has had anything to do with Lance is going to have a thorough search.

For instance today there was an article about the investigation. Jens Voight was riding behind Lance in the photo. Oh oh not good Jens. To close.

OH NO !!!! I DID THE TWITTER RIDE AT GLENELG LAST YEAR BEFORE THE TDU .... and last night a big bloke with white rubber gloves was knocking on my door....

Where can I hide and what can I do ??

I also have a Trek US Postal edition (seriously)... is this perhaps one of the missing bike ... my ride buddy keeps licking the seat tube trying to get an EPO hit!!!

Guilty until proven innocent !!

 

[roadfreak44]

i agree

Brother,

Cancer has affected every person on the planet in our own intimate way.

About LA, sure he had cancer but what came first his philanthropic millionaire status or his PROVEN doping (direct and indirect evidence) which catapulted his above average skills into beyond reality cycling capabilities amoungst other known dopers?

The dope allowed him to win, and win and win...7 times. Then came the money, then came the fame, then came the LAF...in that order.

Now remove the doping, the wins fall aside and he's just a cancer survivor like millions of others. But he's worse because he has perpetuated the lies, lived the lies and still lies. That is vile my friend.

PS: if he wants to clear his name once and for all why doesn't he allow WADA or anyone (Caitlin) to retest his 1999 TdF urine, or his 2001 TdSuisse samples if those are still around. Why doesn't he take a lie detector test, why doesn't he allow us to test his VO2Max, lung capacity, cardiac output, Lactate levels...to make us 'believe".

You're a good person, don't follow down his direction.

NW

It is odd that he hasnt offered some "proof" however the "proof" of doping that the french lab offered was that they tested only his samples from the 99 tour and then allegedly found synthetic epo in them.I have no doubts as to the fact that they did but given the circumstances of the lies to La about the alleged"scientific testing " and then the leak to LeMonde i dont think if I was a cycling star and that series of illegal events had transpired that i would approve any further testing either. Maybe the french "doctored" his frozen blood, maybe they didnt but the entire procedure was bogus and only a fool cannot look at the lies preceding that and see it for what it was...it is kindve obvious tho that a guy tested on the biological passport with normal; blood values still palcing third in the tour after three years off afgainst the likes of contador and schleck might be just a tiny bit of proof for even the most unobservant and intellectually challenged of individuals but apparently not...
there are many reasons why many want to see him fall...do you think maybe hes a little Paranoid? id think so...In his shoes I wouldnt put out anything for people to look at for fear of misrepresentation but thats just me
honestly I dont know if hes guilty or not theres a lot of circumstantial; stuff but nothing solid so far...I know he was kicking hiney when he was 15 years 0ld in triathalons...was he on epo then?
greg lemond beat hinault and fignon...both of whom i strongly suspect were dopers...fingnon confessed to it and hinault and lenmond had the same ds staff.. hinault was famous for his "road rage" or should we say steroid rage?
is this crass supposition on my part? yep...am i a lance fan not per se but to igaore what he has done for cancer is to ignore the man and just look at the cycling star who to me is far less interesting than the compassionate human being he is in spite of his prickly public persona...

share time with someone who is dying....youll be wiser and youll both be happier...
ps-LA was visiting people in clinics LONG before the LA Foundation was set in place...he has a great heart...lets keep it honest...

 

[jimmypop]

It is odd that he hasnt offered some "proof" however the "proof" of doping that the french lab offered was that they tested only his samples from the 99 tour and then allegedly found synthetic epo in them.I have no doubts as to the fact that they did but given the circumstances of the lies to La about the alleged"scientific testing " and then the leak to LeMon
de i dont think if I was a c.....

blahblahblahblahblah

<snip>

You'll have to do better than that on these forums. The barrier to entry for posting BS is pretty high.

 

[Neworld]

It is odd that he hasnt offered some "proof" however the "proof" of doping that the french lab offered was that they tested only his samples from the 99 tour and then allegedly found synthetic epo in them.

RF44 there is a difference in finding synthetic EPO versus metabolized syn EPO in urine samples. You cannot 'spike' a sample with metabolized synthetic EPO into each of the 6 samples from LAs urine, all from different stages, when the testers don't even know that its his urine on one day let alone 6 different day.

You still have yet to comment on the other ways that LA could prove his innocence. Feel free to do so.

...am i a lance fan not per se but to igaore what he has done for cancer is to ignore the man and just look at the cycling star who to me is far less interesting than the compassionate human being he is in spite of his prickly public persona...

Many professionals have promoted Cancer awareness and other medical diseases and have not lied their way to a coveted position from which to make money. Some do it for free! Why doesn't LA give 100% of his LAF extra monies to cancer related items/initiatives? He doesn't need the money does he?

share time with someone who is dying....youll be wiser and youll both be happier...

I treat, listen and help people deal, and die from, cancer ever day. And, there are numerous cancer patients in the last few months that have asked me if it is true that Lance lied and cheated his way to the top while still representing cancer patients and their drive to survive. I respond by asking them if he was a liar would it matter to them? Most of them are actually disgusted and no longer see him as an inspiration.

How many legally binding previous riders, support staff, wives, coaches, assistants and their confessions will it take to make you believe?

Lastly, why do LA supporters keep using the 'they were all doping' argument? Are there not rules against doping? The Federal investigation and confessions are directed against LA right? Lets focus on holding up the values of the sport, the rules that are in place and the individual in question. Otherwise there should be no rules nor doping restrictions. For the moment it is LA's turn to answer doping questions. Lets not move the argument laterally and talk of other cyclists...thats been going on for some time now, and all the while LA was riding, making money and lying.

"sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail!" I couldn't agree with you more Lance.

NW

 

[Hugh Januss]

YOu my friend are 100% correct. That wasnt my intent on thread of thought tho...I think lance is a lion not because he won the tour de france but because he couldve easily just turned his back on the experience of cancer but he stood up for the cause and has donated a lot of time and MONEY to it...That is what i applaud...to have to listen to others who contributes none of their time energy or money to it and can only be derogatory of anothers positive efforts is f***ing pathetic..What i am proposing here is that people do contribute to the fight with money but more with their time and personal energy. Go to a clinic where there are kids,. Take whatever skill you have with you. I am a storyteller and kids are delighted when I show up, Cant say that it cures them but over half the battle with cancer is the mental part. LAs showing up at a clinic doesnt cure anybody but it doesnt hurt either .anyone want to take betsd tjhat LA will still visit cancer clinics even if he is dethroned and penniless? Wouldnt hurt if anyone on this forum got involved...Want to make the world a better place ?stop beign a hyena, attacking people and instead attack problems...thats the best solution I know of to make the world a better place...honestly...

He has donated time and money? More like he has traveled around being extremely well reimbursed for his time and travel expenses while hiding his personal failings behind the curtain of being a doer of good deeds.

 

[flicker]

RF44 there is a difference in finding synthetic EPO versus metabolized syn EPO in urine samples. You cannot 'spike' a sample with metabolized synthetic EPO into each of the 6 samples from LAs urine, all from different stages, when the testers don't even know that its his urine on one day let alone 6 different day.

You still have yet to comment on the other ways that LA could prove his innocence. Feel free to do so.




Many professionals have promoted Cancer awareness and other medical diseases and have not lied their way to a coveted position from which to make money. Some do it for free! Why doesn't LA give 100% of his LAF extra monies to cancer related items/initiatives? He doesn't need the money does he?




I treat, listen and help people deal, and die from, cancer ever day. And, there are numerous cancer patients in the last few months that have asked me if it is true that Lance lied and cheated his way to the top while still representing cancer patients and their drive to survive. I respond by asking them if he was a liar would it would matter to them? Most of them are actually disgusted and no longer see him as an inspiration.

How many legally binding previous riders, support staff, wives, coaches, assistants and their confessions will it take to make you believe?

Lastly, why do LA supporters keep using the 'they were all doping' argument? Are there not rules against doping? The Federal investigation and confessions are directed against LA right? Lets focus on holding up the values of the sport, the rules that are in place and the individual in question. Otherwise there should be no rules nor doping restrictions. For the moment it is LAs turn to answer doping questions. Lets not move the argument laterally and talk of other cyclist...thats been going on for some time now, and all the while LA was riding, making money and lying.

"sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail!" I couldn't agree with you more Lance.

NW

Excuse me? Are you speaking about Amerikan rider from Pleasanton Ca. Cyndy Olivara who was DQd from the 84 Olympic team and subsequently suffered from cancer on her back?

 

[Neworld]

Excuse me? Are you speaking about Amerikan rider from Pleasanton Ca. Cyndy Olivara who was DQd from the 84 Olympic team and subsequently suffered from cancer on her back?

Please explain. I don't know what you're referring to.

NW

 

[flicker]

Please explain. I don't know what you're referring to.

NW

A powerful American woman who came from Pleasanton Ca. same as Bob Roll. I think they may have ridden or trained together.

Used to score her own PEDs down Mexico way. Somehow she blew a drug test and was banned from the 84 Olympics riding for the US team. Definately 2nd in Olympic road race and 1st TT. She ended up with back cancer and interviewed about the dangers of PED use on NPR. Probably could hear her podcast their on NPR archives. Good learning tool about the dangers of PED use. Cyndi Olivara olmypic team member.

 

[180mmCrank]

What have I learned?

Well for one thing that this guy brings both the best and the worst out of people. And the distinction between hero and villain is not always as simple as we might like it to be. It's not like the Westerns where the villain has a black hat and the hero a white one. Real life is a little more complicated.

Pop quiz (Hero or Villain?) John McEnroe, Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods?