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Lessons from Lance

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roadfreak44 said:
sorry rudeforthought disagreeing with you doesnt make me a criminal . However your angry biased CONJECTURES are at this point are sadly only that as they are unproven. Ever looked up the definition of libel? you are engaging in it., That makes you a criminal. Im not a criminal just someone who holds dear this abosurd idea that in america we should be innocent till proven guilty and not tried and hung in the court of public opinion created by the likes of incredibly honest individuals like FL whom you are evidently a huge fan of so exactly what other than a criminal engaging in libel does that make you? :D

Go look up New York Times v Sullivan, come back, explain why you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to libel or slander when it comes to a public figure , then go...well, just go.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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flicker said:
I learned an American cyclist can give articulate interviews. Only American cyclist I have ever seen being able to do that.


Horner is better in an interview than Armstrong. They both interview well, though.

I think, seeing Armstrong over the years is to understand that many truly successful people have a hole in their soul that they never quite fill. The same hunger that drives their success means that, in spite of it, they will never be truly happy.

The thing I learnt from Ullrich is that some of them do find happiness.
 
roadfreak44 said:
sorry rudeforthought disagreeing with you doesnt make me a criminal . However your angry biased CONJECTURES are at this point are sadly only that as they are unproven. Ever looked up the definition of libel? you are engaging in it., That makes you a criminal. Im not a criminal just someone who holds dear this abosurd idea that in america we should be innocent till proven guilty and not tried and hung in the court of public opinion created by the likes of incredibly honest individuals like FL whom you are evidently a huge fan of so exactly what other than a criminal engaging in libel does that make you? :D

Dude, please take a deep breath, or a step back from the keyboard, or a valium, or whatever it takes so that you can write legibly and in coherent sentences. Right now it is hard to take you seriously let alone ascertain what you are trying to say.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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L'arriviste said:
I learned from Lance that I missed very little of real interest in the TdF in the years I dropped out of cycling between Indurain #4 and Contador #1.

It's all getting a bit interesting now though, isn't it? :)

Gotta admit the Rope-a-dope Tour defense was boring. We all got that except for Phil's moment when Lance gave someone the "look" and won a stage. Once you've watched bacteria multiply in a petri dish you pretty much know what's going to happen with each biological experiment.

At least now we know that the legal antibiotic will change things up a bit that the Tour pre-eiminancy is up for grabs. Especially if we get rid of a few more doctors and UCI operatives.
 

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roadfreak44 said:
sorry rudeforthought disagreeing with you doesnt make me a criminal . However your angry biased CONJECTURES are at this point are sadly only that as they are unproven. Ever looked up the definition of libel? you are engaging in it., That makes you a criminal. Im not a criminal just someone who holds dear this abosurd idea that in america we should be innocent till proven guilty and not tried and hung in the court of public opinion created by the likes of incredibly honest individuals like FL whom you are evidently a huge fan of so exactly what other than a criminal engaging in libel does that make you? :D

You do realize that libel is not a crime in general, but a tort? Only in very specific cases would libel be construed as a cime, and no way this type of conjecture would be construed that way. Also an action for libel would not be succesfull, see TFF's post
 
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flicker said:
I just want to say that I have enjoyed the run. I have defended Lance and Levi. It has now become unstylish to like him or any other of his fellow teams trainers or teamates. I have been warned by the moderators not to defend him. I have finally been broken I know that it is useless and anyone who associates with Lance is history. The moderators have warned me, I hang my head in shame.
Please if there are any more lessons to learn from the fallacy that I have been living, being entertained by the yellow banded one please posters fill me in.
Do not be gentle. Fred aka flicker

Sooner or later most reasonable thinking people will pull their heads out of LA's AH and smell the aroma of freshly brewed, FRENCH dripped coffee; it just took you longer than most, and as they say, ignorance can be bliss.

MOST of us here @ The Clinic, however, were always able to smell the stink coming of Mr. Armstrong from across the state of Texas, and so we never believed the lie. We are glad you now smell the coffee and not his BS, and welcome you aboard. These are great times to be a Lance hater, and we all eagerly wait for the guillotine to fall. I think the French invented that one too?
 

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twothirds said:
I've learned that if i didn't get busted, then no wrong took place.

Bingo, typical criminal mentality. Lance did not invent that one! Here is the next one... if I am prosecuted for a crime I am the victim.
 

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Runitout said:
Horner is better in an interview than Armstrong. They both interview well, though.

I think, seeing Armstrong over the years is to understand that many truly successful people have a hole in their soul that they never quite fill. The same hunger that drives their success means that, in spite of it, they will never be truly happy.

The thing I learnt from Ullrich is that some of them do find happiness.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ullrich-victim-of-burnout

I have learned it is not so good to be an opponent of Lance Armstrong either.
 
Jun 20, 2009
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BroDeal said:
It is sad that the posts defending Armstrong have been reduced to rambling tirades that read like they were put through Google translation from another language--perhaps Martian.

So, ino ther words youa re unable to refute simple logic? ;)
 

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sartain said:
Sooner or later most reasonable thinking people will pull their heads out of LA's AH and smell the aroma of freshly brewed, FRENCH dripped coffee; it just took you longer than most, and as they say, ignorance can be bliss.

MOST of us here @ The Clinic, however, were always able to smell the stink coming of Mr. Armstrong from across the state of Texas, and so we never believed the lie. We are glad you now smell the coffee and not his BS, and welcome you aboard. These are great times to be a Lance hater, and we all eagerly wait for the guillotine to fall. I think the French invented that one too?

I'm opposed to capital punishment.

5-15 may be appropriate with time off for good behavior if he allocutes to the high cadence run around.
 
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flicker said:
I just want to say that I have enjoyed the run. I have defended Lance and Levi. It has now become unstylish to like him or any other of his fellow teams trainers or teamates. I have been warned by the moderators not to defend him. I have finally been broken I know that it is useless and anyone who associates with Lance is history. The moderators have warned me, I hang my head in shame.
Please if there are any more lessons to learn from the fallacy that I have been living, being entertained by the yellow banded one please posters fill me in.
Do not be gentle. Fred aka flicker

If your posts weren't so far over the edge bordering on the idiotic it's likely you wouldn't have regular communications with the moderators. It's not the "what" but the "how" of your posts that raises the moderators antenna.
 

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La Pandera said:
If your posts weren't so far over the edge bordering on the idiotic it's likely you wouldn't have regular communications with the moderators. It's not the "what" but the "how" of your posts that raises the moderators antenna.

doping and cheating is that idiotic? What is the point really? How can a person fool themselves that way. They cheat themselves and their families really.
The moderators have an opinion here and support bashing Armstrong. That is fine and they have the right but if they do it is obvious they are newbies.
I like the newbies they are fresh. But when I ride with my 10 year old son I inform him of who the cheaters are. Hopefully when he competes he will compete clean. Whether it is in school ,cycling another sport or in business and his profession. That is what I am about brother.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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flicker said:
The moderators have an opinion here and support bashing Armstrong.

Actually, the role of a moderator is not to have an opinion. This is a forum.

They adhere to some pretty simple rules. Lets not define them and put them in a box.

Freedom of thought and we don't even have to pay for it. Unbelievable :eek:
 
Sep 25, 2009
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a real lesson for me (and a surprise tbh) was how many cancer survivors rejected his false representation.

in fact so many, that at least 5 i’m aware of are active posters here and are frequently termed by the uncritical and blind as haters.

that’s a great under reported lesson for everyone.
 
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python said:
a real lesson for me (and a surprise tbh) was how many cancer survivors rejected his false representation.

in fact so many, that at least 5 i’m aware of are active posters here and are frequently termed by the uncritical and blind as haters.

that’s a great under reported lesson for everyone.

since your counting , count me out of your little circle
 
tubularglue said:
Actually, the role of a moderator is not to have an opinion. This is a forum. They adhere to some pretty simple rules. Lets not define them and put them in a box.
I have not, and can't imagine another mod or admin warning someone to not make posts defending Lance, or to feel shame about doing so, or anyone else for that matter.

For the most part I don't really care what people post about Lance one way or the other, as long as claims are backed up with valid links, or are not too insulting or absurd or threatening. Posts that defend or attack him beyond normal daily talk rarely get much attention even at that. Unfortunately many posts surrounding Lance are laced with baiting comments, or insults. And that, along with use of foul language, posting nasty pictures, use of sock puppets and off-topic posts that derail threads are what gets my ire up. I'd say 99% of all warnings, infractions, suspensions or bans I and other mods and admins handed out have been for one of those reasons.
 
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flicker said:
I will not convict him in my own heart. I do not have time for hate. I do think he has benefited American cycling along with LeMond. I will leave it there.

Me 2. Altho, I am currently convinced he is guilty of lying and cheating. In spite of that his stardom has done more for cycling in the US than Lemond (of whom I am a serious fan), or anyone else.

So I don't really want to see him get convicted of a crime, altho I believe he is technically guilty. If he is convicted, it will not be good publicity for cycling in the US.

I would be happy if we could get present day riders clean, and move forward.

This thread is growing faster than I could read it. Flickr, if this thread is just about u, then you've just achieved your 15.
 

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One thing that has amazed me is how long Lance was able to maintain the high level in his racing. I know many here consider Lances' long run to be a phamaceutical accomplishment but no one can refudiate the pure epicnessosity of his accomplishments.
I also learned US cyclists can dominate in a Euro-sport. LeMond proved that and Lance continued to carry that torch. Although I think the Euros did take competitve cycling from us the Merikans. I think they big races came from the US in the 1800s and early 1900s.
I also learned from LeMond and Armstrong that there are bucketloads of money to be made in cycling. That has surprised me more than anything .
 
flicker said:
One thing that has amazed me is how long Lance was able to maintain the high level in his racing. I know many here consider Lances' long run to be a phamaceutical accomplishment but no one can refudiate the pure epicnessosity of his accomplishments.
I also learned US cyclists can dominate in a Euro-sport. LeMond proved that and Lance continued to carry that torch. Although I think the Euros did take competitve cycling from us the Merikans. I think they big races came from the US in the 1800s and early 1900s.
I also learned from LeMond and Armstrong that there are bucketloads of money to be made in cycling. That has surprised me more than anything .

There was bucketloads to be made if you were Lance(because of his history), I would wager he made more money than the rest of the next top 20 pro cyclists accumulated in the 00s.

I think LeMond signed a 3 year contract worth 1 million in 89. Yes, big money but hardly bucketloads in comparison to most other sports. A half decent soccer player in Europe makes far more in a week than the average pro cyclist makes in a year, thats before going near US sports or Golf.

Cyclists are still paupers in comparison to most other sportspeople.
 
flicker said:
One thing that has amazed me is how long Lance was able to maintain the high level in his racing. I know many here consider Lances' long run to be a phamaceutical accomplishment but no one can refudiate the pure epicnessosity of his accomplishments.

I refute his accomplishments. Without dope, he would not have been able to win Fleche Wallone 7 times in a row, much less the Tour.

flicker said:
I also learned US cyclists can dominate in a Euro-sport.

Not without massive, massive amounts of dope-Hamilton, Landis and now Leipheimer. Take away the dope, they would have to go home and ride with the 'roid heads that dominate the criterium scene here in the states.

flicker said:
Although I think the Euros did take competitive cycling from us the Merikans. I think the big races came from the US in the 1800s and early 1900s.

That was track cycling, and the American who dominated that era was Major Taylor, who never gets the props he so richly deserves.

You are wrong on all counts, as usual due to your your ASSimilation via Assmosis of anything Armstrong.
 

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Berzin said:
I refute his accomplishments. Without dope, he would not have been able to win Fleche Wallone 7 times in a row, much less the Tour.



Not without massive, massive amounts of dope-Hamilton, Landis and now Leipheimer. Take away the dope, they would have to go home and ride with the 'roid heads that dominate the criterium scene here in the states.



That was track cycling, and the American who dominated that era was Major Taylor, who never gets the props he so richly deserves.

You are wrong on all counts, as usual due to your your ASSimilation via Assmosis of anything Armstrong.
You are right on most. As far as the dope(and why I am such an idiotic fool) we in the US did not invent it. Without naming names there are others who doped. Road racing evolved from track racing. 6day racing /TdF. Really the same bird.
 
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pmcg76 said:
There was bucketloads to be made if you were Lance(because of his history), I would wager he made more money than the rest of the next top 20 pro cyclists accumulated in the 00s.

I think LeMond signed a 3 year contract worth 1 million in 89. Yes, big money but hardly bucketloads in comparison to most other sports. A half decent soccer player in Europe makes far more in a week than the average pro cyclist makes in a year, thats before going near US sports or Golf.

Cyclists are still paupers in comparison to most other sportspeople.

amen to that...
LA made $20 mil last year i think with endorsements included...peanuts compared to mega balls woods who made $105 mil even with three of his major sponsors dumping him...
The livestrong foundation incidentally pulled in $41 mil last year for research and for various global efforts to benefit the cancer community. for some reason i dont think someone who makes even a paltry $20 mil has to take money from cancer victims to make a living. One more thing and i think im done with this thread and that is someone recently posted some derogatory comment about LAs being a classics rider and then a tour winner and incredulity at how that could be...
i fell to 110 lbs during my little bout looking in the mirror and seeing only death looking back....when i came back to something that aprroximated "normal" (tho normal never really returns)i was 15 lbs lighter but in odd places, My arms bever became as big as they were when i weighed 170 and as i rode my bike my legs developed and i became a very fast hillclimber ...weighed 154 at race weight...now im old fat and slow but cancer does terraform the body and even more importantly the mind...anyone who has not experienced the process cannot even begin to fathom how it changes motviation and more importantly focus and what one cna endure...when you stare death in the face and relaize you possibly only have a month or two left your focus on whaty is important becomes razor sharp...i was always a focused individual prior to cancer ,afterwards i was hyper focused to the 12th degree...
I didnt leanr that form lance but rather firom cancer, however i see the smae "afterglow" effects in him.... i was told in a recent post to pull my head out of my ***...excellent advice. i once had it firmly lodged there as I was uncomprehending of the suffering in the world...my experience made me pull ti out and relaize thta the world was aobut more thna just me and my petty and angry selfish opinions...La and his foundation are the tenth largest research foundation in the world...sorry but this guy has doen something ownmderful with what eh was handed..cnacer changed my life in a similiar manner as it does everyone whose life it touches. im not moralizing but merely offerign if we are to learn soemthign form La or any human beign it is a disservice to them to just focus on the negative...However i accept that negative is the sum total of some humans viewpoints...
when lance falls his ofundation will implode...Right now they are foccusing on stigma work in africa and developing o****ires...anyone have any idea of what thta si and how many hundreds fo thousanmds of lives it will impact? didnt think...pulll my head out of my ***...thanks again, that was great advice..