Liège - Bastogne - Liège 2025, 27th April

[James M]

It's a problem of stupid expectations. Fleche isn't broken, people just need to appreciate it for what it is.

I wasn't following the thread that day, so excuse me, but were people really complaining that there was no attack prior to Mur? They complain when it's a long-range solo and now also when it's not? Or did they complain about the stomp on the Mur?

Regarding Belgians and their riders, it's nothing new, but it's getting to a point where it's ridiculous (reference: Nys). Expectations are just too wild compared to reality, starting to remind me more and more of the French as soon as a guy can climb just a tiny bit.

 

[James M]

Are Belgians genuinely pondering and asking for the Mur to be removed? That's like suggesting the cobbles in Roubaix should be removed...

 

[Red Rick]

Are Belgians genuinely pondering and asking for the Mur to be removed? That's like suggesting the cobbles in Roubaix should be removed...

I guess they would just want to go from finish on top to finish in Huy maybe with the last Mur being at like 30km to go.

 

[Berflamand]

Are Belgians genuinely pondering and asking for the Mur to be removed? That's like suggesting the cobbles in Roubaix should be removed...

Sporza did a poll on it.

Only 7% voted to get rid of the Mur.

50% voted for the Mur to stay as the finish while 43% voted for the Mur to stay in the race but no longer as finish.

So no, the overwhelming majority of 'Belgians' are not asking for the Mur to be removed.

 

[Peyroteo94]

For many years, they also complained that MSR was very boring. And no one is asking for a route change.

And this year has been exciting, but even if it had been boring, they wouldn't want it. We know why

Yup. Someday they will ask gor the ban of Kwaremont to make Pogacar lose.

 

[Berflamand]

Today both UAE and SOQ did the recon basically at the same time.

From the small clips online it looks like Pogi tested himself on La Redoute while Schachmann (I think) tried to stay in the wheel for as long as possible (maybe to gain some insight in the required numbers).

Evenepoel took it a little easier and climbed La Redoute together with PhilGil.

 

[Cycling111]

Sporza did a poll on it.

Only 7% voted to get rid of the Mur.

50% voted for the Mur to stay as the finish while 43% voted for the Mur to stay in the race but no longer as finish.

So no, the overwhelming majority of 'Belgians' are not asking for the Mur to be removed.

But only 50% would maintain the route. That's significant.

I would´ve liked to see a question about MSR 20 years ago. I think more than 50% would´ve voted to change the route. Today, only 1% would vote to change it

 

[Berniece]

It adds something quite unique to the cycling calendar, and changing the route away from the Mur de Huy finish would just make it into an Temu version of something it's not. Sanremo doesn't need to be changed even though it's nearly always a wait for the Poggio. And in the same way, Fleche Wallone doesn't need to be changed.

If anything, Fleche benefitted for me from the AGR and Liege changing their parcours so that it became the only true puncheur fest in the Ardennes.

Sure that's fine. Why not just ride 180km's on flat and just go to the Mur? If you just want to have a very steep finish, something specific for puncheurs. ASO deliberately changes the course because they want a more exciting race. So is it so weird that people are saying that maybe they just need to move de Mur to somewhere else in the race? If this is the goal of ASO to have a more exciting race?

Has nothing to do with being Belgian.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They should just take a hint from the 1973 Flèche Wallonne and turn the Ardennes into one giant 850 km event with Moskestraat, Holstheide, Eyserbosweg, Cauberg, the Mur, Redoute, RaF and last, but not least, Bemelerberg.

 

[Berniece]

Some images from the recon

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Not sure what scenario to expect. Pogi may be on a downward curve post cobbles (Fleche happened but he's cold weather merchant!) and OTOH Remco likely not near his peak yet.

Pog briefly distancing Remco on Redoute and the latter catching up is a realistic scenario. But if Pog is close to his best I think he will be able to win solo.

 

[RedheadDane]

Trek with a rather interesting way of presenting their riders.

 

[Kwaremonster]

Some images from the recon

So basically Evenepoel has Vermeersch telling him all UAE's secrets and than Pogi has Urska listening in on that conversation. Clearly the battle will be won and lost today.

 

[E_F_]

The sprint on the Mur is generally very exciting, so I get the point of it, but this year wasn't a good sprint.

 

[Cycling111]

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I guess Oleg Tinkoff didn‘t take many pulls on that ride.

 

[Medvind]

So will Remco try to bait Pog in to a mano a mano battle? He should probably attack already on Col du Rosier or Cote de Desnie and hope that Pog follows so that it becomes a long and hard battle. Really let his doms push a hard pace on several climbs before he attacks so that Pog doms doesn't have much left in the tank when Remco attacks, forcing Pog to follow.

Hope we get some strong riders that tries anticipates early and who later can latch on when Pog and/or Remco storms by.

Fear it might be a bit too tough for Nys on Sunday. If he can crack a top 10 spot I would be impressed.

Think both Pidcock and Healy will do a good race on sunday. Both seems in good shape.

 

[tobydawq]

They should just take a hint from the 1973 Flèche Wallonne and turn the Ardennes into one giant 850 km event with Moskestraat, Holstheide, Eyserbosweg, Cauberg, the Mur, Redoute, RaF and last, but not least, Bemelerberg.

I think Tiegemberg could also be fitted in somewhere.

 

[Danskebjerge]

As I wrote after Fleche, I feared that Skjelmose's injuries were more problematic than explained by the team. And now they say that he's suffering quite a bit from the wounds.

His two recent crashes caused solely by his own recklessness have really proven costly.

 

[Danskebjerge]

The sprint on the Mur is generally very exciting, so I get the point of it, but this year wasn't a good sprint.

I used to love the Mur, but the race has become too predictable. As we know from Amstel and many other races, it's better to place the finish line further away from the top of the climb.

The main argument I see for not changing Fleche Wallone is that it's tradition. And tradition is - rightfully - important in cycling. (But maybe not THAT important.)

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I think Tiegemberg could also be fitted in somewhere.

Well I was hoping it could be a race for Oliver Naesen.

 

[Medvind]

When the favorite has the strongest team FW becomes a bit boring. On wednesday UAE controlled the race and could even do a strong leadout for Pog on Huy. Strong doms can handle a realtively hard 200k race. Making FW longer, for exampel one more lap, isn't really doable since it's between AGR and LBL.

 

[Sciatic]

Yup. Someday they will ask gor the ban of Kwaremont to make Pogacar lose.

At least we know That’s unlikely because the hospitality tent business wouldn’t let someone touch their golden goose.

 

[hayneplane]

So will Remco try to bait Pog in to a mano a mano battle? He should probably attack already on Col du Rosier or Cote de Desnie and hope that Pog follows so that it becomes a long and hard battle. Really let his doms push a hard pace on several climbs before he attacks so that Pog doms doesn't have much left in the tank when Remco attacks, forcing Pog to follow.

Hope we get some strong riders that tries anticipates early and who later can latch on when Pog and/or Remco storms by.

Fear it might be a bit too tough for Nys on Sunday. If he can crack a top 10 spot I would be impressed.

Think both Pidcock and Healy will do a good race on sunday. Both seems in good shape.

Far from improbable for Nys to get a top 5 in the same vein as MVDP did by not being in the top 10-15 on the climbs but being the fastest in the group behind the top couple of riders.

 

[Gratemans]

I wasn't following the thread that day, so excuse me, but were people really complaining that there was no attack prior to Mur? They complain when it's a long-range solo and now also when it's not?

You fell into the trap I see a lot on forums: thinking that the forum is one single entity. It's multiple people having different opinions. So yes, there are probably people complaining there was no attack. And there are also people complaining when there ís a long-range solo. Those are usually not the same people though.

I used to love the Mur, but the race has become too predictable. As we know from Amstel and many other races, it's better to place the finish line further away from the top of the climb.

The main argument I see for not changing Fleche Wallone is that it's tradition. And tradition is - rightfully - important in cycling. (But maybe not THAT important.)

I don't know. To me, FW is all about the Mur. Sure, it often is predictable, but it's not a real classic anyway, and I kind of like its role as the world championship of puncheurs.
Amstel is different for me. It's way longer, it is a classic, and there's generally a lot more action going on earlier in the race. So I'm in favor of not having it end at the Cauberg.