Liège-Bastogne-Liège: October 4th, 2020

[Koronin]

Due to the insanity I did go find the last couple of Ks of the race to watch. Before Alaphilippe and Roglic crossed the finish line Horner was saying Alaphilipped needed DQed or regulated for that swerve.

 

[Oldermanish]

Due to the insanity I did go find the last couple of Ks of the race to watch. Before Alaphilippe and Roglic crossed the finish line Horner was saying Alaphilipped needed DQed or regulated for that swerve.

Alaphilippe routinely rides like a jacked up Cat 4 Crit sprinter. Is he on Aderall and other stuff?

 

[Oldermanish]

Yes today's the worst, it's almost constant anxiety, although it's always been jumpy Julian lately every time he's in focus, he's just different. Just curious: was there ever any rider from the past with such mannerism?

He was doing the same thing for the last miles of the WC. He almost took himself out looking back while riding around a corner 3km from the finish. Way too much adrenalin in his system sometimes.

 

[Koronin]

Alaphilippe routinely rides like a jacked up Cat 4 Crit sprinter. Is he on Aderall and other stuff?

He does and that's part of my issues with him. I guess it's possible he's on something like that.

 

[gunara]

I just wanna add that it's always funny to me, to hear commentators talk about how Alaphilippe is a tremendously great descender, when I remember how Mohorič schooled them on descent in Florence U23 world championship. (it's interesting to note, that on that occasion Matej also dropped Alaph on the hill, not just caught him on the descent).
(tbh really a great race to rewatch)

Back when almost none of us had any idea that Louis Meintjes would grow up to be Louis Meintjes.

 

[RedheadDane]

He does and that's part of my issues with him. I guess it's possible he's on something like that.

Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe he needs to be on something. Namely, whatever it is people with ADHD takes to maybe calm down a little.

And I know there has never been any public statement about a diagnosis of any sort.

 

[Koronin]

Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe he needs to be on something. Namely, whatever it is people with ADHD takes to maybe calm down a little.

And I know there has never been any public statement about a diagnosis of any sort.

That's possible. I have no idea what medications people with that need. Yeah, I've never seen any public statement with that diagnosis, but have seen it suggested he has it. Which does fit.

 

[BlueRoads]

We can just diagnose from afar... A friend of mine who usually knows me very well and who even has some kind of expertise once diagnosed me with Autism, totally overlooking my real issues. So diagnosing people is probably more a kind of sport itself...
But Alaphilippe already tries to adress his matter and does a lot of bike yoga during the races to calm down.

 

[Netserk]

Alaphilippe routinely rides like a jacked up Cat 4 Crit sprinter. Is he on Aderall and other stuff?

Curiously, ADHD is not too stigmatising to be talked about here?

 

[Oldermanish]

Curiously, ADHD is not too stigmatising to be talked about here?

Many, many athletes abuse Aderall. A good portion of the Seattle Seahawks defense were busted for it some years ago. I've had younger co-workers that abused it as well with no real clinical need.

 

[firefly3323]

Many, many athletes abuse Aderall. A good portion of the Seattle Seahawks defense were busted for it some years ago. I've had younger co-workers that abused it as well with no real clinical need.

mlb players have a 7 times higher rate of adhd than the overall population.......walks like a duck.

 

[Oldermanish]

mlb players have a 7 times higher rate of adhd than the overall population.......walks like a duck.

Which is a sad abuse, IMO. My Grandson takes a light medication that helps greatly and we look forward to him maturing off any prescriptions. Very tricky stuff to mess with.

I also don't suggest that Ala takes any of this stuff. He just rides sometimes like he's not attentive. He also does crazy stuff like attack into the drainage ditch alongside the peloton to move up.

 

[Extinction]

He's hyper-active. It's his character, no need to cast a so-called mental disorder on it. He would not have had his Worlds otherwise.

 

[Oldermanish]

He's hyper-active. It's his character, no need to cast a so-called mental disorder on it. He would not have had his Worlds otherwise.

You are correct that he rides hyper-actively and sometimes to his own detriment. I apologize if you took that I meant that he might have a disorder that required medication. That was not my intention.
I did characterize his riding as similar to an over-zealous Cat 4; which anyone that's raced knows recognizes the "style" that I mean. I've also raced around amateurs and pros that took alot of stimulating PEDs; it does happen.
I don't even suggest that is Julian's problem with crashing and other strategic errors. He just races that way.

 

[Oldermanish]

Voeckler. But he was just all body language and not really swerving all over the road.

Voeckler had more of a flair for the dramatic; particularly when he could make eye-contact with a TV camera. It was entertainingly comic sometimes.

 

[Sandisfan]

Is this Old threads week? LOL

 

[gunara]

Is this Old threads week? LOL

Yeah, I wondered that too, I even suspected it was system error or something at first

 

[RedheadDane]

He's hyper-active. It's his character, no need to cast a so-called mental disorder on it. He would not have had his Worlds otherwise.

Even if he does have ADHD, what would be wrong with that? Wouldn't it just be a good thing that he is able to channel that extra energy?

 

[Oldermanish]

Even if he does have ADHD, what would be wrong with that? Wouldn't it just be a good thing that he is able to channel that extra energy?

Nothing wrong with it as long as he's the only one going to the shoulder. Most racers have a disorder they need to channel. Me included....not racing is worse.

 

[Extinction]

You are correct that he rides hyper-actively and sometimes to his own detriment. I apologize if you took that I meant that he might have a disorder that required medication. That was not my intention.
I did characterize his riding as similar to an over-zealous Cat 4; which anyone that's raced knows recognizes the "style" that I mean. I've also raced around amateurs and pros that took alot of stimulating PEDs; it does happen.
I don't even suggest that is Julian's problem with crashing and other strategic errors. He just races that way.

Back in the 80s we used to call such riders squirrels.

 

[Extinction]

Even if he does have ADHD, what would be wrong with that? Wouldn't it just be a good thing that he is able to channel that extra energy?

I dunno, but judging by the number of student disability notices these days half the youth of the world must have it. Of course, in my day it didn't exist and so was simply told to calm down and pay attention more or fail, no drugs, just good old fashioned discipline.

 

[RedheadDane]

Of course, in my day it didn't exist and so was simply told to calm down and pay attention more or fail, no drugs, just good old fashioned discipline.

It existed. Kids just didn't get the help they needed.
On the flipside; back in the day, it was probably easier for someone who couldn't sit still and pay attention in school, to just get a job that... didn't require sitting still.

 

[Extinction]

It existed. Kids just didn't get the help they needed.
On the flipside; back in the day, it was probably easier for someone who couldn't sit still and pay attention in school, to just get a job that... didn't require sitting still.

I don't know, but I think today's youth are being over-diagnosed and over-medicated. Too many medics and psychologists, with parental complicity, have created a scenario in which practically everybody has some sort of mental disability. I don't doubt that there are real cases, but they are far fewer than what the system has made them out to be (to the great benefit of the pharmaceutical industry). In any case, back to cycling...

 

[staubsauger]

No. 1 differential diagnosis with ADHD would be Histrionic Personality Disorder. Goes along with vivid & theatrics and high suggestibility.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Pantani strikes me as one major case of either unnoticed adult ADHD or Histrionic Personality Disorder. Especially with his artistry, inferior complex and the constant hunt for the love and appreciation he couldn't give himself. Low self-esteem can be a hint for Histrionic Personality Disorder as well, but personally I rather see him at ADHD with his comorbid depression and motivation issues, procrastination with training etc.

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No. 1 medication for ADHD would be either Ritalin / methylphenidate or Adderall / amphetamines. Angel Arroyo among others, tested positive for Ritalin at the 1982 Vuelta a Espana he initially won, before being relegated. Since stimulants are forbidden substances in sports, Alaphilippe would need a TUE which I doubt he would receive. Even if his only option would be Concerta rather than Ritalin, because of his longer action time of up to 12 hours.

Zero chance getting a TUE for amphetamines, rightfully so.

Strattera (Atomoxetine) would be a non-stimulant alternative. It's a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitior. Acting like most antidepressants building up a level in the body to act. Only with blocking noradrenaline rather rather than serotonine like for example Prozac. Strattera goes along with numerous potential cardiovascular side effects that aren't acceptable for a professional cyclist. Positive recommendations are rare. Potentially makes you deeply depressed as well. Personally I would label it as pure horse crap.

Stablon / Tianeptine actually is a notorious medicine in France, which often gets prescribed against ADHD there. Also covers comorbid depression with very few side effects. Problem is that it needs to be taken 3x daily with the meals. So that's not gonna work off during a day on the bike either. Also Tianeptine docks on opioid receptors. So it shouldn't be combined with common pain stillers like tramadol etc. Tianeptine easily makes people addicted, because if abused it actually gives you both a high and a heroine like feeling of warmth and security. If taken accordingly though, for most it's a very helpful medicine against ADHD witch is underrated because of it's bad reputation

The only medication that probably would work out is Agomelatine or Valdoxan. Officially an antidepressant it's instant action is to adjust circadian rhythm / sleeping time, by fostering melatonine distribution. It also slightly favors fostering of dopamine & noradrenaline though and there are studies from Iran that it works with ADHD. There need to be checkups done for liver safety though and while Agomelatine rarely interacts with other medicines the additional pollution of the liver could be a problem with the extentsive substance usage of cyclists anyway.

 

[Sciatic]

No. 1 differential diagnosis with ADHD would be Histrionic Personality Disorder. Goes along with vivid & theatrics and high suggestibility.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Pantani strikes me as one major case of either unnoticed adult ADHD or Histrionic Personality Disorder. Especially with his artistry, inferior complex and the constant hunt for the love and appreciation he couldn't give himself. Low self-esteem can be a hint for Histrionic Personality Disorder as well, but personally I rather see him at ADHD with his comorbid depression and motivation issues, procrastination with training etc.

-------—------—------------------------------------


No. 1 medication for ADHD would be either Ritalin / methylphenidate or Adderall / amphetamines. Angel Arroyo among others, tested positive for Ritalin at the 1982 Vuelta a Espana he initially won, before being relegated. Since stimulants are forbidden substances in sports, Alaphilippe would need a TUE which I doubt he would receive. Even if his only option would be Concerta rather than Ritalin, because of his longer action time of up to 12 hours.

Zero chance getting a TUE for amphetamines, rightfully so.

Strattera (Atomoxetine) would be a non-stimulant alternative. It's a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitior. Acting like most antidepressants building up a level in the body to act. Only with blocking noradrenaline rather rather than serotonine like for example Prozac. Strattera goes along with numerous potential cardiovascular side effects that aren't acceptable for a professional cyclist. Positive recommendations are rare. Potentially makes you deeply depressed as well. Personally I would label it as pure horse crap.

Stablon / Tianeptine actually is a notorious medicine in France, which often gets prescribed against ADHD there. Also covers comorbid depression with very few side effects. Problem is that it needs to be taken 3x daily with the meals. So that's not gonna work off during a day on the bike either. Also Tianeptine docks on opioid receptors. So it shouldn't be combined with common pain stillers like tramadol etc. Tianeptine easily makes people addicted, because if abused it actually gives you both a high and a heroine like feeling of warmth and security. If taken accordingly though, for most it's a very helpful medicine against ADHD witch is underrated because of it's bad reputation

The only medication that probably would work out is Agomelatine or Valdoxan. Officially an antidepressant it's instant action is to adjust circadian rhythm / sleeping time, by fostering melatonine distribution. It also slightly favors fostering of dopamine & noradrenaline though and there are studies from Iran that it works with ADHD. There need to be checkups done for liver safety though and while Agomelatine rarely interacts with other medicines the additional pollution of the liver could be a problem with the extentsive substance usage of cyclists anyway.

Your initial premise is not true at all. I don’t care if you’re an MD, I worked in psychiatry long enough (over a decade) to know personality disorders (especially histrionic personality disorder) present very differently than something like ADHD. For instance a person can be socially shy and withdrawn and have ADHD, and may only show up when you test their executive function.