Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[Cobblestoned]

In cycling they are not.

The world tour licence is everything a team of 30 riders, management and team by whatever name can not have 2 licences, so 1 team needs to give up their licence and therefore will fold.

I really enjoy the detail-riding in this case. LMAO
We are close before discussing the big-bang-theory or the significance of "0".
2 teams merge. It makes no sense to merge licenses, it is not possible and it is clear that one team only needs 1 license.
We all know whats significant for the haters. They are trying to grab a last straw of insignificant details.

Johan is the Boss and still there. Face it. The boss-hog.

 

[Parrulo]

'It'll be even more fun to beat them. That's how I look at it. I still have the best man,' Riis added.

The merger might result in several cyclists losing contracts, but Riis said he would wait to see how events unfold before possibly signing any new cyclists.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...expresses-surprise-over-merger-between-rivals

i love that quote lol

this merge might be a very nice deal for riis. he does has the best man and he can pick some pretty good left overs.

 

[LaFlorecita]

As long as we don't have to see some more ridiculous scarves, I'm OK.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Can you guys take your d1ck measuring contest to the feedback forum? It is making it really hard to read this thread.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yet you felt the need to remove the part of his quote that made it clear it's his own speculation.




The "guys in Austin" and JB will both have an ownership stake, not steak knives. They brought the money to the table that allowed Becca to stop paying out of his own pocket.

No they haven't.
CSE's sponsors for their licence has now become the sponsor of the Leopard team.
Becca and JB/CSE may share ownership - but CSE had full ownership of the Radioshack team, hardly the same retaining interest.

 

[Race Radio]

Yet you felt the need to remove the part of his quote that made it clear it's his own speculation.
.

Instead of a semantics discussion perhaps you can give us proof he is wrong?

I agree, It would make sense for Johan et al to have an ownership piece but neither press release indicated this would be the case.....in fact quite the opposite. They point to three different entities playing different roles. Johan's management group is driving the cars, CSE managing sponsors, and Becca owning the license.

It is entirely possible that Johan is being paid a management fee to run opps and CSE is paid a fee to manage sponsors. I would not be surprised if Johan et al. are given a token ownership piece but in today environment it could end up to be far more lucrative to collect fees then be an owner.

 

[Cobblestoned]

'It'll be even more fun to beat them. That's how I look at it. I still have the best man,' Riis added.

The merger might result in several cyclists losing contracts, but Riis said he would wait to see how events unfold before possibly signing any new cyclists.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...expresses-surprise-over-merger-between-rivals

Riis is and will always be the most clever guy in the business.
He is just brilliant.

Since his confession I adore him. Outstanding performance.
Patience is one of his greatest strenght.

 

[Sophistic]

Is this team really going to be that much better than the current LT squad?
With a contract in the bag, Kloeden probably doesnt care a lot about his own career and certainly not about the success of the Schlecks. Horner is getting 40 next month and just had a horrible crash...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Is this team really going to be that much better than the current LT squad?
With a contract in the bag, Kloeden probably doesnt care a lot about his own career and certainly not about the success of the Schlecks. Horner is getting 40 next month and just had a horrible crash...

40 is the new 30.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Is this team really going to be that much better than the current LT squad?
With a contract in the bag, Kloeden probably doesnt care a lot about his own career and certainly not about the success of the Schlecks. Horner is getting 40 next month and just had a horrible crash...

My thoughts. LT was already one of the strongest teams on paper this year, next year they might have more good guys than they have now, like maybe 9 versus 15(?), but they still only have 9 spots max on their team for a race.

 

[eleven]

No they haven't.
CSE's sponsors for their licence has now become the sponsor of the Leopard team.
Becca and JB/CSE may share ownership - but CSE had full ownership of the Radioshack team, hardly the same retaining interest.

The three primary sponsors are:

Radioshack - the current sponsor of the JB/CSE team
Nissan - the current sponsor of the JB/CSE team
Trek - the current sponsor of both teams, and naming sponsor of Leopard.

The money in cycling comes from sponsors. The money in this deal is from the current RS team sponsors - that's why it's now Nissan and not Mercedes, for example. Becca needed sponsorship money that his management couldn't land, lest he continue paying out of pocket.

CSE and JB used to have full ownership (well, ownership with partners). Now they have partial ownership - something I said a long, long time ago in this thread.

 

[spalco]

Well, who says the reason for this deal is to make Leo stronger?

 

[Race Radio]

CSE and JB used to have full ownership (well, ownership with partners). Now they have partial ownership - something I said a long, long time ago in this thread.

......Link?

 

[eleven]

......Link?

It's a private firm that has no requirement to disclose future ownership stakes to the public. In time, I suspect the ownership will leak to the press like just about everything else in cycling does.

 

[Lexman]

OK. Lets figure out starting from scratch who is in and who is out.

First the limit. It is 28 with 0 neo-pros, 30 with 2+ neo-pros. As Jesse Sergent and Ben King from Radioshack have already been mentioned in the official communique, that sets the upper limit at 30.

Now lets start with Radioshack. Those mentioned in the official announcement are 1) Kloden 2) Horner 3) Brajkovic 4) Busche 5) Zubeldia 6) Oliveira 7) Sargeant 8) King. That is 8. Plus Ben Hermans and Gregory Rast have been signed from Radioshack separately, so lets say they stay too. That is 10.

That leaves room for up to 20 more from the Leopard squad. Lets leave the final three seats open and pick 17.

Again, facts first. Those mentioned officially in either of two communiques are 11) A Schleck 12) F Schleck 13) Cancellara 14) Wagner 15) Bennati 16) Fuglsang.

So that makes 16. Now with the fiction, in a manner of speaking.

I think 17) Monfort 18) Zaugg and 19) Posthooma will walk in. 20) Denifl is way too talented a climber at 23 years to let go (he was their best rider in Colorado already), and 21) Jens Voigt is going to be on the team come what may (no way the Schlecks and Cancellara will accept his departure). He is leading the team in the Tour of Britain, for God's sake.

That makes 21. I think these 21 riders are pretty much certain to form the nucleus of the team.

Now comes the fictitious fiction. None of the remaining face guarantees, though I will proceed to pick the most likely.

22) Gerdemann is the kind of moody rider who may just walk, but he has grown very close to Frank Schleck and become his regular training partner, so I guess he could hang on too if he accepts to ride Giro and Vuelta (he has no Tour ticket in 2012 in this team). A rider who wont be nudged out in my opinion, but will not be pulled back either if he heads to the door.

23) Fabian Wegmann 24) Martin Pedersen
Both should stay put, though one cannot be sure. The Leopard backbone will probably want to keep them, but I am not so sure on what JB would want for these two. My guess is unless they volunteer to go, they will stay.

25) Will Clarke 26) Giacomo Nizzolo 27) Dominic Klemme
Clarke is a very talented Australian and Nizzolo an upcoming 22-year-old sprinter, neither of whom will be costing too much money. I don't see many names in favour of whom you would want to discard these promising lads. Cancellara may want to hang on to Klemme. At 24, he can time trial and ride the cobbles very well. Again, unlikely to be on a heavy contract. All three should be on the minimum 47,000, or a little more at best.

That just about takes it to 27, and it would be a very strong 27. As I said at the start, I am leaving the final three seats open.

It will be a mad dash right here with Stamsnijder and Anders Lund leading the race. Of course, more spots could open up if the likes of Gerdemann or even Fuglsang decide to look elsewhere. So there, you have it! Watsay!

RadioShack signed Gallopin and Meersman so we can suppose J.B. will want them in the new team?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The three primary sponsors are:

Radioshack - the current sponsor of the JB/CSE team
Nissan - the current sponsor of the JB/CSE team
Trek - the current sponsor of both teams, and naming sponsor of Leopard.

The money in cycling comes from sponsors. The money in this deal is from the current RS team sponsors - that's why it's now Nissan and not Mercedes, for example. Becca needed sponsorship money that his management couldn't land, lest he continue paying out of pocket.

CSE and JB used to have full ownership (well, ownership with partners). Now they have partial ownership - something I said a long, long time ago in this thread.

Yes, they are the sponsors- which is not the same as CSE "bringing money to the table", the moneyman here still appears to be Becca.
It seems CSE have gone from having a licence to being merely a marketing company and Bruyneel to DS.

 

[eleven]

Yes, they are the sponsors- which is not the same as CSE "bringing money to the table", the moneyman here still appears to be Becca.

Which money did Becca bring to the table?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Which money did Becca bring to the table?

He helped fund a team for a year that had no title sponsor.

 

[thehog]

40 is the new 30.

It’s an interesting thought. If they want to beat a fully fit Contador then the Shlecks have to learn how to time trial. Now if there’s a nice juicy TTT then that’s Advantage Shelck’s. If there are 1 or 2 longer type ITT’s then that’s advantage Contador. As per the mountains I’d say Contador is 10s faster on any steep end of stage mountain finishes and the Shlecks are level when it comes to the longer mountain finishes. Even with the addition of Kloden and Horner as helpers I can’t see where they can help bar the TTT. Now if the Shleck’s get the special wind tunnel testing that Bruyneel has then it could be a different story. If that does happen then I think they’ll be rider protests.

 

[pastronef]

It’s an interesting thought. If they want to beat a fully fit Contador then the Shlecks have to learn how to time trial. Now if there’s a nice juicy TTT then that’s Advantage Shelck’s. If there are 1 or 2 longer type ITT’s then that’s advantage Contador. As per the mountains I’d say Contador is 10s faster on any steep end of stage mountain finishes and the Shlecks are level when it comes to the longer mountain finishes. Even with the addition of Kloden and Horner as helpers I can’t see where they can help bar the TTT. Now if the Shleck’s get the special wind tunnel testing that Bruyneel has then it could be a different story. If that does happen then I think they’ll be rider protests.

uh? sorry?

 

[Publicus]

Bruyneel was the one running the team in recent years, and CSE has always been almost exclusively the marketing agent - a role they've proven to be very good at.

The combined team kept the Leopard license but in most every other aspect the RS management structure. A bit of research might explain why they kept the Leopard license over the RS one, but I haven't seen it yet.

Research isn't really required. While a merger would have been feasible, what it looks like has transpired is an asset deal probably at the insistence of Becca. It would allow him to acquire the meaningful assets of Radio Shack and jettison and any potential liabilities that may flow to CSE/JB et al stemming from the US Postal fiasco. Coupled with the fact that LT had the more valuable long-term contracts (Shlecks and Cancellara), I think this explanation makes the most sense why they opted for this structure.

 

[Maxiton]

<snip>

Still working through all this fusions-confusion and doing team-building with help of this. Perhaps useful for everyone.

http://06.live-radsport.ch/details_...ProTeams__Alle_Transfers_auf_einen_Blick.html

Thanks. That is useful.

OK. Lets figure out starting from scratch who is in and who is out.

First the limit. It is 28 with 0 neo-pros, 30 with 2+ neo-pros. As Jesse Sergent and Ben King from Radioshack have already been mentioned in the official communique, that sets the upper limit at 30.

Now lets start with Radioshack. Those mentioned in the official announcement are 1) Kloden 2) Horner 3) Brajkovic 4) Busche 5) Zubeldia 6) Oliveira 7) Sargeant 8) King. That is 8. Plus Ben Hermans and Gregory Rast have been signed from Radioshack separately, so lets say they stay too. That is 10.

That leaves room for up to 20 more from the Leopard squad. Lets leave the final three seats open and pick 17.

Again, facts first. Those mentioned officially in either of two communiques are 11) A Schleck 12) F Schleck 13) Cancellara 14) Wagner 15) Bennati 16) Fuglsang.

So that makes 16. Now with the fiction, in a manner of speaking.

I think 17) Monfort 18) Zaugg and 19) Posthooma will walk in. 20) Denifl is way too talented a climber at 23 years to let go (he was their best rider in Colorado already), and 21) Jens Voigt is going to be on the team come what may (no way the Schlecks and Cancellara will accept his departure). He is leading the team in the Tour of Britain, for God's sake.

That makes 21. I think these 21 riders are pretty much certain to form the nucleus of the team.

Now comes the fictitious fiction. None of the remaining face guarantees, though I will proceed to pick the most likely.

22) Gerdemann is the kind of moody rider who may just walk, but he has grown very close to Frank Schleck and become his regular training partner, so I guess he could hang on too if he accepts to ride Giro and Vuelta (he has no Tour ticket in 2012 in this team). A rider who wont be nudged out in my opinion, but will not be pulled back either if he heads to the door.

23) Fabian Wegmann 24) Martin Pedersen
Both should stay put, though one cannot be sure. The Leopard backbone will probably want to keep them, but I am not so sure on what JB would want for these two. My guess is unless they volunteer to go, they will stay.

25) Will Clarke 26) Giacomo Nizzolo 27) Dominic Klemme
Clarke is a very talented Australian and Nizzolo an upcoming 22-year-old sprinter, neither of whom will be costing too much money. I don't see many names in favour of whom you would want to discard these promising lads. Cancellara may want to hang on to Klemme. At 24, he can time trial and ride the cobbles very well. Again, unlikely to be on a heavy contract. All three should be on the minimum 47,000, or a little more at best.

That just about takes it to 27, and it would be a very strong 27. As I said at the start, I am leaving the final three seats open.

It will be a mad dash right here with Stamsnijder and Anders Lund leading the race. Of course, more spots could open up if the likes of Gerdemann or even Fuglsang decide to look elsewhere. So there, you have it! Watsay!

Great post! Thanks!

Originally Posted by elf1978
More of a specifics query, but does the new merger go with Shimano or Sram setup?

how do you know it's SRAM?

they keep Bontrager helmets or Giro?

Sram and Bontrager; because Bontrager is Trek, of course, and Armstrong has an investment in Sram.

Then why did you feel the need to cut short his quote, leaving out the part that makes it clear it's his speculation?

Surely he didn't combine teams in the past - one of the teams folded, right?

Give it a break. JV's speculation is worth more than all our internet gleanings put together.

are you kidding ? it is just not real. and i would never want to see a TTT with cobbles. is it a circus or a bike race?

Can you guys take your d1ck measuring contest to the feedback forum? It is making it really hard to read this thread.

Lol. You make a good point.

Riis is and will always be the most clever guy in the business.
He is just brilliant.

Since his confession I adore him. Outstanding performance.
Patience is one of his greatest strenght.

I'm holding back a bit on the man-love for Riis, but I agree that he is patient and clever. (Though maybe a bit too clever.)

 

[eleven]

He helped fund a team for a year that had no title sponsor.

I know - That's why he needed a group that could bring in sponsors. He found an ownership group that could bring in three top-level sponsors.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't know what is going in this picture but I am looking forward to it being in next years Giro

 

[Maxiton]

Research isn't really required. While a merger would have been feasible, what it looks like has transpired is an asset deal probably at the insistence of Becca. It would allow him to acquire the meaningful assets of Radio Shack and jettison and any potential liabilities that may flow to CSE/JB et al stemming from the US Postal fiasco. Coupled with the fact that LT had the more valuable long-term contracts (Shlecks and Cancellara), I think this explanation makes the most sense why they opted for this structure.

Agreed.

..................