Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[Christian]

Bruyneel traded Levi for Andy, Frank, Fabian, Jens, and a few others.
Seems like a fair trade.
Levi had a great year in 2011.


But if Levi is healthy at the Tours in California, Utah, Colorado, and France next year - the decision to trade him away may come back to haunt Johan.

Calculated risks.
Diversification analysis.
Tough decisions.

Thats why Team Bosses get paid the Big Bucks.
.
.
.

+1 nice analysis Polish

 

[Polish]

+1 nice analysis Polish

Thank you Christian.
You are one of my favorite posters - so a special thank you.

And I am not just saying that because I have recently sent in my application to be accepted into the Official Schleck Fanboy Club..

But seriously, could you make sure my application gets approved?
Thanks in advance

 

[Christian]

Tony Martin criticizes the super merger(s):

"I see this as a negative trend. I am against mergers like this because there is practically always a team that is dissolved and then 50 people lose their job. I hope they fall over their money. The past has shown that the teams with the biggest budgets do not necessarily have the most success. Races with a few super teams and many average ones will be generally boring for the public".

http://www.tageblatt.lu/sport/story/Tony-Martin-kritisiert-Team-Fusionen-26123261

Harmony disturbed at Radioshack-Nissan-Trek?

According to an article of the swiss magazine NZZ Online, many members of LEOPARD TREK are quite unhappy with the merger, and it seems the fusion was hectic and not well thought through. Fabian Cancellara himself is supposed to be displeased and to have talked "in a small circle" about possibly leaving the team. According to sports journalist Patrick Gertsch, Becca "does no longer believe in succes through friendship and joy".

http://www.wort.lu/wort/web/sport/a...estoerte-harmonie-radiosshack-nissan-trek.php
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/sport/radsport/eine_handvoll_siege_1.12576231.html

The second article is interesting because it mentions Cancellara being unhappy with the situation. It appears Jon Burke, CEO of Trek, initiated the merger after the Tour de France. Several weeks after the Tour he flew out Cancellara to Trek World. By then the merger talks must have been very advanced - but apparently Cancellara found out as late as everyone else. You'd think this is something Burke could have mentioned to his top rider?!

 

[Christian]

Thank you Christian.
You are one of my favorite posters - so a special thank you.

And I am not just saying that because I have recently sent in my application to be accepted into the Official Schleck Fanboy Club..

But seriously, could you make sure my application gets approved?
Thanks in advance

I have to run it by Jobiwan but it should be fine!!

Very interesting quotes from the Swiss article:

"The news of Bruyneel's arrival was met with mixed or deprecatory reactions, so much is clear when talking with persons close to the team. There are rumours of telephone calls, where people were close to tears, of riders who are ashamed of their employer. The anger towards Becca is big, people feel traited, especially since only very few know whether they have a job for next year or not. Bruyneel is rarely seen or heard of, important members of the current Leopard-staff do not even know his cell phone number."

"Cancellara was able to avoid the public due to his preparation. This must not have been easy for him, because keeping quiet is not his style. On Monday night in Copenhaguen, one got a pretty good impression of how much he would have to say about the merger. He took several deep breaths, but did not want to say too much in front of the international press. In the end, in a small circle, he said things like "Right now, I don't care if it continues or not"; "I can only say that sometimes things move very fast in sports" or "Of course there are question marks concerning my future. The topic is not over"

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/sport/radsport/eine_handvoll_siege_1.12576231.html

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

It appears Jon Burke, CEO of Trek, initiated the merger after the Tour de France. Several weeks after the Tour he flew out Cancellara to Trek World.

<snip>

Twekworld is that like Disneyland, or maybe NeverNeverland or an EgarAllenPoeLand???

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Tony Martin criticizes the super merger(s):

"I see this as a negative trend. I am against mergers like this because there is practically always a team that is dissolved and then 50 people lose their job. I hope they fall over their money. The past has shown that the teams with the biggest budgets do not necessarily have the most success. Races with a few super teams and many average ones will be generally boring for the public".

Tony's just jealous that he didn't get invited and he only gets to join a plucky little team with a tiny budget. At least we can look forward to seeing him next year in that not-boring-at-all 8 man sprint train before Leipheimer blows the race to bits in the mountains

 

[Polish]

Oh my goodness.
Maybe its not too late for Bruyneel to get Levi back?

Riders "close to tears"
The merger crushed the "friendship and joy"
Bruyneel a BFF? No! Don't even have his cell phone#

I guess on the bright side, Radioshack-Nissan-Trek can now contest the Tour Féminin.

 

[thehog]

I have to run it by Jobiwan but it should be fine!!

Very interesting quotes from the Swiss article:

"The news of Bruyneel's arrival was met with mixed or deprecatory reactions, so much is clear when talking with persons close to the team. There are rumours of telephone calls, where people were close to tears, of riders who are ashamed of their employer. The anger towards Becca is big, people feel traited, especially since only very few know whether they have a job for next year or not. Bruyneel is rarely seen or heard of, important members of the current Leopard-staff do not even know his cell phone number."

"Cancellara was able to avoid the public due to his preparation. This must not have been easy for him, because keeping quiet is not his style. On Monday night in Copenhaguen, one got a pretty good impression of how much he would have to say about the merger. He took several deep breaths, but did not want to say too much in front of the international press. In the end, in a small circle, he said things like "Right now, I don't care if it continues or not"; "I can only say that sometimes things move very fast in sports" or "Of course there are question marks concerning my future. The topic is not over"

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/sport/radsport/eine_handvoll_siege_1.12576231.html

You’re a wealth of good information! Looks like this t0rd is really starting to stink. It’s got classic Hog all over it. Andy & Frank silence has been deafening. No wonder Fabs wants to get out. I have to laugh at Livestrong press releases like its one big happy family and internally no one has any idea what’s going on. Looks like the “toxic brothers” Lance & Hog have done it again.

 

[La Pandera]

Well no. If one/two sponsors are providing funding for four years then it's a major commitment. They're hardly going to pull out after one year. If you have 5 sponsors putting in a little bit each then there's not a great incentive for each sponsor to stay on through the duration. ie one sponsor could induce risk for the remaining sponsors or if one falls the team might not be able to meet its commitments in other areas like salaries.

The risk is lessened with two than spreading risk by 5 - surely you studied risk analysis at University?

Wouldn't it be easier to replace 1 equally invested sponsor out of 5 or more than having 2 primaries, one of them bail and have to replace it?

 

[La Pandera]

Bruyneel traded Levi for Andy, Frank, Fabian, Jens, and a few others.
Seems like a fair trade.
Levi had a great year in 2011.


But if Levi is healthy at the Tours in California, Utah, Colorado, and France next year - the decision to trade him away may come back to haunt Johan.

Calculated risks.
Diversification analysis.
Tough decisions.

Thats why Team Bosses get paid the Big Bucks.
.
.
.

I personally don't anticipate Leipheimer striking fear into anyone's heart at the Tour. His high Tour finish in the gc days are done.

 

[La Pandera]

Twekworld is that like Disneyland, or maybe NeverNeverland or an EgarAllenPoeLand???

There's an EdgarAllenPoeLand??

 

[mewmewmew13]

You’re a wealth of good information! Looks like this t0rd is really starting to stink. It’s got classic Hog all over it. Andy & Frank silence has been deafening. No wonder Fabs wants to get out. I have to laugh at Livestrong press releases like its one big happy family and internally no one has any idea what’s going on. Looks like the “toxic brothers” Lance & Hog have done it again.

After reading all this I'm going to agree with you Hog.
Your point about the deafening silence from the Shlecks is quite true...and it sounds nothing but slimy. Polish, you can make light of all that is being said but it sure sounds like there are some unhappy people of epic proportions.

It reminds me of a multi-week mountaineering expedition where the niceties wear off and the true agendas of everyone come out.
...bound to get uglier. Too bad for everyone involved.

 

[thehog]

Wouldn't it be easier to replace 1 equally invested sponsor out of 5 or more than having 2 primaries, one of them bail and have to replace it?

No. That assumes that one part of the five is willing to now pay two parts in five. What is the incentive for that? Their logo will be slightly bigger on the jersey? They'd still get the same exposure as the remaining 3 but be paying double.

Or if you go searching for 1 part of 5 during the season if one bails you have the same problem.

The rules are clear and they're not UCI rules. Its financial best practice. ProTour license requires two 4 year sponsoring of the team with audited financial records. That's a good thing. Riders salaries are guaranteed - the team structure is guaranteed..

Operating a 10-30 million per year budget requires structure and safeguards. You can't do that with 50 sponsors coming and going.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Nice analogy mewmew, but I think it's incomplete without mentioning the inevitability of the food being contaminated by stove fuel early on in the trip.

Becca selling out the Saxo defectors to Bruyneel is some pretty harsh poetic justice for them IMO. It probably came as a shock to them that they weren't BFF with Becca, but merely employees that he expected results from.

We saw in 2009 how Contador responded to an unpleasant team situation engineered by Bruyneel et al. It will be interesting to see how Andy responds; maybe it will be the reality check he needs. (At the least we can expect a better ITT.)

 

[Polish]

Nice analogy mewmew, but I think it's incomplete without mentioning the inevitability of the food being contaminated by stove fuel early on in the trip.)

Good point.

And how about the spoiled guy on the camp trip who complains all the time.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-says-saxo-bank-and-riis-were-no-longer-right-for-him
.
.
.

 

[rides like a girl]

We saw in 2009 how Contador responded to an unpleasant team situation engineered by Bruyneel et al. It will be interesting to see how Andy responds; maybe it will be the reality check he needs. (At the least we can expect a better ITT.)

In 2009 AC didn't have any close friends on that team, maybe a stretch but probably closest to Sergio and Haimar. Andy will at least have his brother on his team if the others remain distant. Just don't think Andy has that F*ck everyone except my mama attitude that AC had. He seems more like the type to care if people liked him.

Will be interesting if Tony Martin's attitude is shared. All things being equal in the Tour next year, will teams help RadioShack Nissan? I think they can cross Cadel off the list of helpers. Andy already asked this year and didn't get a warm response.

 

[BroDeal]

No. That assumes that one part of the five is willing to now pay two parts in five. What is the incentive for that? Their logo will be slightly bigger on the jersey? They'd still get the same exposure as the remaining 3 but be paying double.

Or if you go searching for 1 part of 5 during the season if one bails you have the same problem.

The rules are clear and they're not UCI rules. Its financial best practice. ProTour license requires two 4 year sponsoring of the team with audited financial records. That's a good thing. Riders salaries are guaranteed - the team structure is guaranteed..

Operating a 10-30 million per year budget requires structure and safeguards. You can't do that with 50 sponsors coming and going.

I don't see it that way.

Suppose we have two teams each with 10 million in sponsorship. Team A has a title sponsor giving 6 million and a secondary sponsor contributing 4 million. Team B has five sponsors giving 2M apiece. Team B is financially more solid.

Team B can lose a sponsor and still operate at a reduced budget by not signing new rider contracts. It can attempt to stagger the ends of its sponsorship deals over several years so that no one year could cause too drastic of drop in sponsorship money. The contributions of each sponsor are small enough that it might be possible to talk another existing sponsor into filling some of the gap from a leaving sponsor. When one sponsor exits, it is much easier to find a replacement willing to put up a modest amount of money compared to what is required by the super sponsors of Team A. There are many many more companies that can afford 2M than there are companies than can afford 4M or 6M.

Team A, on the other hand, is hosed if one of its sponsors leaves. It would face a 40% or 60% drop in sponsorship. Probably the 40% but certainly the 60% is too much to handle by not taking on new rider contracts. The chance of getting the remaining sponsor to pick up the slack for the leaving sponsor is slim because the monetary figures are so large. What is more, the larger amount of money may be an incentive for sponsors to leave.

While a two sponsor structure might be fine with smaller teams, the World Tour now requires such a large financial commitment to be competitive that teams have priced themselves out of the market. The teams are as financially precarious as ever, perhaps more so because in the past teams did not face the hardship of finding a sponsor to put up 10 million euros. What happened to HTC could happen to any team.

The UCI rules did not prevent High Road from running a deficit for years. It did not prevent Radio Shack from folding. It did not prevent Riis Cycling from nearly collapsing. It looks like the only thing that the UCI rules are good for is guaranteeing that riders can eventually get the current season's pay. It's anybody's guess what happens for the next season.

 

[BroDeal]

In 2009 AC didn't have any close friends on that team, maybe a stretch but probably closest to Sergio and Haimar. Andy will at least have his brother on his team if the others remain distant. Just don't think Andy has that F*ck everyone except my mama attitude that AC had. He seems more like the type to care if people liked him.

And that is why Andy will have a hard time ever winning the Tour. He needs to hire this guy to smack some manliness into him.

Sigmond A. Manrod knows what it takes to get to the top.

 

[Maxiton]

Welcome back, BroDeal.

<snipped for brevity>
According to an article of the swiss magazine NZZ Online, many members of LEOPARD TREK are quite unhappy with the merger, and it seems the fusion was hectic and not well thought through. Fabian Cancellara himself is supposed to be displeased and to have talked "in a small circle" about possibly leaving the team. According to sports journalist Patrick Gertsch, Becca "does no longer believe in succes through friendship and joy".

<snipped for brevity>
The second article is interesting because it mentions Cancellara being unhappy with the situation. It appears Jon Burke, CEO of Trek, initiated the merger after the Tour de France. Several weeks after the Tour he flew out Cancellara to Trek World. By then the merger talks must have been very advanced - but apparently Cancellara found out as late as everyone else. You'd think this is something Burke could have mentioned to his top rider?!

<snipped for brevity>
"The news of Bruyneel's arrival was met with mixed or deprecatory reactions, so much is clear when talking with persons close to the team. There are rumours of telephone calls, where people were close to tears, of riders who are ashamed of their employer. The anger towards Becca is big, people feel traited, especially since only very few know whether they have a job for next year or not. Bruyneel is rarely seen or heard of, important members of the current Leopard-staff do not even know his cell phone number."

"Cancellara was able to avoid the public due to his preparation. This must not have been easy for him, because keeping quiet is not his style. On Monday night in Copenhaguen, one got a pretty good impression of how much he would have to say about the merger. He took several deep breaths, but did not want to say too much in front of the international press. In the end, in a small circle, he said things like "Right now, I don't care if it continues or not"; "I can only say that sometimes things move very fast in sports" or "Of course there are question marks concerning my future. The topic is not over"

Nothing of this merger is good for Cancellara. He's said he wants to concentrate on his preparation for Worlds and think about it afterward, but you know it has to have weighed on him. Both for the sake of his upcoming season, and to spite these miscreants who now run his team, I hope he gets out. Maybe leaving Riis was a mistake. But not half as great a mistake as remaining on this team would be.

After reading all this I'm going to agree with you Hog.
Your point about the deafening silence from the Shlecks is quite true...and it sounds nothing but slimy. Polish, you can make light of all that is being said but it sure sounds like there are some unhappy people of epic proportions.

It reminds me of a multi-week mountaineering expedition where the niceties wear off and the true agendas of everyone come out.
...bound to get uglier. Too bad for everyone involved.

Right. When you see people you thought were honorable leaving others for dead after stealing their food and oxygen. (A little dramatic, I know, but I claim poetic license. )

And however Becca made his money, it's quite evident it wasn't through his skills in people management.

What a mess!

 

[mewmewmew13]

Good points by all of you.
I remember how important it was to Fabian to get all his ducks in a row for a several year stretch. He asserted that the most important thing for him was his focus...for this Worlds and the 2012 Oly's...and NOW look at what he's got on his hands! jeez, would not like to be near Spartacus when he gets upset...

I also do remember Cadel's shaking his head at Andy when Andy asked for help ...now it is like putting random riders and staff in a blender and hoping the mix comes out well.
what a mess for the LeOpard superteam now. It will be a long time before we see where the allegiances settle.

ps..an the expedition there is always a team drunk who has too much to drink after dinner and starts ranting...

 

[Maxiton]

Good points by all of you.
I remember how important it was to Fabian to get all his ducks in a row for a several year stretch. He asserted that the most important thing for him was his focus...for this Worlds and the 2012 Oly's...and NOW look at what he's got on his hands! jeez, would not like to be near Spartacus when he gets upset...

Now that you mention it, I remember that, too. Hope this doesn't affect his World's.

<snipped>ps..on the expeditions there was always a team drunk who started up with some ranting...

Who takes that role in this scenario?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Now that you mention it, I remember that, too. Hope this doesn't affect his World's.



Who takes that role in this scenario?

ha I guess we'll just have to wait and see if one emerges on this trip
hopefully not..that's the least of what this drama needs

 

[thehog]

So Fabs get named in the press releases but wants nothing to do with the team?

What is Hog up to...?

Tony Martin criticizes the super merger(s):

"I see this as a negative trend. I am against mergers like this because there is practically always a team that is dissolved and then 50 people lose their job. I hope they fall over their money. The past has shown that the teams with the biggest budgets do not necessarily have the most success. Races with a few super teams and many average ones will be generally boring for the public".

http://www.tageblatt.lu/sport/story/Tony-Martin-kritisiert-Team-Fusionen-26123261

Harmony disturbed at Radioshack-Nissan-Trek?

According to an article of the swiss magazine NZZ Online, many members of LEOPARD TREK are quite unhappy with the merger, and it seems the fusion was hectic and not well thought through. Fabian Cancellara himself is supposed to be displeased and to have talked "in a small circle" about possibly leaving the team. According to sports journalist Patrick Gertsch, Becca "does no longer believe in succes through friendship and joy".

http://www.wort.lu/wort/web/sport/a...estoerte-harmonie-radiosshack-nissan-trek.php
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/sport/radsport/eine_handvoll_siege_1.12576231.html

The second article is interesting because it mentions Cancellara being unhappy with the situation. It appears Jon Burke, CEO of Trek, initiated the merger after the Tour de France. Several weeks after the Tour he flew out Cancellara to Trek World. By then the merger talks must have been very advanced - but apparently Cancellara found out as late as everyone else. You'd think this is something Burke could have mentioned to his top rider?!

 

[Maxiton]

So Fabs get named in the press releases but wants nothing to do with the team?

What is Hog up to...?

Wishful thinking.

 

[HL2037]

Twekworld is that like Disneyland, or maybe NeverNeverland or an EgarAllenPoeLand???

I think it is more like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio:

"Ha! School is no place for a boy like you!" said Foulfellow, laughing. "If you follow me, I'll show you a place that's much more fun----Pleasure Island!"

"Don't go, Pinoke!" warned Jiminy Cricket.
But Pinocchio did not listen, and before he knew it Foulfellow had sold him to the mean old driver of the Pleasure Island stagecoach.

The coach was pulled by six unhappy donkeys. The coachman went from village to village, buying up all the boys he could. Once the coach was full, he headed to the ferry bound for Pleasure Island.

Pinocchio sat beside a loudmouthed boy named Lampwick. "Don't worry about a thing," Lampwick said with a chuckle. "Once we get to Pleasure Island, we won't have to listen to anyone or worry about what's right or wrong!"

On Pleasure Island Pinocchio forgot everything the Blue Fairy had told him. He fought with the other boys, smoked corncob pipes, tossed rocks through windows, and yelled and screamed with all his might. Then he followed Lampwick down Tobacco Lane to the Pool Hall.

"This is a great place, Lampwick!" shouted Pinocchio.
But as Pinocchio turned to his friend, he could not believe his eyes. Lampwick had suddenly grown long ears and a tail. Lampwick had turned into a donkey!

Pinocchio felt the top of his head and looked down at his behind. He, too, had sprouted donkey's ears and a tail! Now he knew where the coachman got his tired, sad-looking donkey's.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maurice.abraham/kids/pinoc.html