Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[shalgo]

Well, if Fuglsang wasn't planning to leave the team before, he certainly is now.

 

[T-Nielsen]

I could have sworn that Candybutt,,... erh I mean Fuglsang said that same thing months ago.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I could have sworn that Candybutt,,... erh I mean Fuglsang said that same thing months ago.

Candybutt

 

[offbyone]

I am excited for Horner and at the same time feel bad for Fuslang.
Personally, I hope JB doesn't come to the tour because I don't think it is good for the team or the tour. Let him bask in his drama at home.

I am a bit surprised by Frank Schleck already admitting defeat after a good suisse, but I do believe that he will lose minutes in the time trial. I am not sure of Kloden's fitness level but he time trialed well at the suisse tour, he should probably lead the team. Unfortunately, if they follow their current level of disorganization their will be no decided team leader and they won't ride as a team.

 

[zigmeister]

Frank is just screwing with Johan and the team right now with his comments. Guys are ****ed with rumoured late paychecks and other issues with management, including Johan and his media nonsense.

Frank, since 2009, has been consistently moving his way up the GC, 2010 I believe he crashed in a classics race and broke his clavicle, but he is one of the most consistent big GC climbers in the World. I would easily put him top 10 on daily in-and-out climbing pros right now.

His TDF results the past 3-4yrs have shown that.

With some good help from Horner, Jens and Pop daily in the climbs, he has a shot at top 5 I believe. Podium, maybe...we shall see.

As the race unfolds, if he is performing well, he will take the leader role, that simple. Then it will be interesting to see what his real attitude is/was regarding comments lately.

He's a descent TT guy. The Team TT they can do pretty well. But the mountains are where they will shine, or anybody will have to for a good result in the TDF as usual, nothing new there.

Should be interesting to see a few teams, and this one has been all over the place this season so far, maybe it is a train wreck, or maybe they just end up middle of the pack.

 

[Red Lobster]

you kidding, right? That was the team with the most wins at the time. conflicts mostly in the press room.

I'm with pugdog on this ... LVC in the '86 Tour was bad, essentially two separate teams, the Hinault faction vs. the LeMond faction. Sure they were a winning team - tough NOT to win with that line up, featuring two of the best riders of all time - and sure it didn't have the circus atmosphere of today's RSNT, but it was infighting worthy of a Jerry Springer episode.

 

[Boeing]

Little Chris Horner
Sat in the corner,
Eating American pie;
He climbed up a hill,
Without taking a pill,
And said 'What a Wonderboy am I!

Simple Johan met a phenom
going to the fair
said simple Johan to the phenom
"what have you got there?"
The phenom said to simple Johan
"blood, dumbass."

 

[pugdog]

you kidding, right? That was the team with the most wins at the time. conflicts mostly in the press room.

Tell you what, have a chat with the Badger. Press room wouldn't have any walls left.

 

[BillytheKid]

I'm with pugdog on this ... LVC in the '86 Tour was bad, essentially two separate teams, the Hinault faction vs. the LeMond faction. Sure they were a winning team - tough NOT to win with that line up, featuring two of the best riders of all time - and sure it didn't have the circus atmosphere of today's RSNT, but it was infighting worthy of a Jerry Springer episode.

I imagine there's more drama in most teams than we think. RSNT is a Bruyneel/Armstrong descendant and just is limelighted by frothing at the mouth fanatics who keep the focus there and only there. OK Andy Schleck is injured in a crash, Cancellara was injured in a crash. Klöden has a knee problem. American riders couldn't not make the Tour Team until Johan was reminded his title sporsor is U.S. All the other "recent" news is hardly a surprise.

This team is simply under the magnifying glass more than others here.

The punching bag. But sport is all about drama. I prefer it on the road in a race.

I watched the TdF 2003 stage to Luz A last night. Amazing the number of fans lining the final climb compared to what we see today. Great racing despite it all.

 

[zigmeister]

I imagine there's more drama in most teams than we think. RSNT is a Bruyneel/Armstrong descendant and just is limelighted by frothing at the mouth fanatics who keep the focus there and only there. OK Andy Schleck is injured in a crash, Cancellara was injured in a crash. Klöden has a knee problem. American riders couldn't not make the Tour Team until Johan was reminded his title sporsor is U.S. All the other "recent" news is hardly a surprise.

This team is simply under the magnifying glass more than others here.

The punching bag. But sport is all about drama. I prefer it on the road in a race.

I watched the TdF 2003 stage to Luz A last night. Amazing the number of fans lining the final climb compared to what we see today. Great racing despite it all.

I think that is a fair assessment of the situation.

Disconcerting to me, and surely the riders if true, was the rumor of the team late paying the rider's paychecks recently.

If true, I'm sure many guys, especially the Schlecks, are looking for an exit strategy and preparing/scouting contracts and interests with other teams, if not already, definitely after the Tour.

I see Radio Shack/Leopard Trek going into a blackhole, and possibly the Leopard might go extinct.

 

[Christian]

The more I think about it the more Fuglsangs exclusion seems insulting since he did both preparation races of which he won one and showed promising form in the other, while Horner did none

There is no logical reason to replace him by Horner, it's all but obvious that this was the sponsor's call ...

 

[DominicDecoco]

Exactly. Coming into June/July in great form with a overall victory i Luxembourg and great showing in Suisse for Frank where he dropped several riders, including Rui Costa, before Frank attacked. looked really comfortable overall. It's a disgrace. Jakob is twice the rider than Horner is and he is twice the person off the bike as well.

I've said it before; Jakob should have had his tongue deep up in Lance's something before the team selection. It worked for Horner.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Fulgsang's berth

Certainly Jacob should have been included.....I mean, we all like the Jens&&Chris pair of dudes approaching 40; Together with Levi & George, they are living proof that not all pros burn out at 34......It would have helped sort of diffuse the guerrilla warfare currently threatening to blow the team apart.....

 

[T-Nielsen]

Exactly. Coming into June/July in great form with a overall victory i Luxembourg and great showing in Suisse for Frank - it's a disgrace. Jakob is twice the rider than Horner is and he is twice the person off the bike as well.

I've said it before; Jakob should have had his tongue deep up in Lance's something. It worked for Horner.

Well I'll put that on my list of images I never want to think of again.

 

[gustienordic]

The more I think about it the more Fuglsangs exclusion seems insulting since he did both preparation races of which he won one and showed promising form in the other, while Horner did none

There is no logical reason to replace him by Horner, it's all but obvious that this was the sponsor's call ...

And when Horner doesn't do **** the sponsors will be angry

 

[qwerty16]

Exactly. Coming into June/July in great form with a overall victory i Luxembourg and great showing in Suisse for Frank where he dropped several riders, including Rui Costa, before Frank attacked. looked really comfortable overall. It's a disgrace. Jakob is twice the rider than Horner is and he is twice the person off the bike as well.

I've said it before; Jakob should have had his tongue deep up in Lance's something before the team selection. It worked for Horner.

Fuglsang has disappointed in all Grand Tours he has ridden so far. And he dind't have a great showing in Switzerland, where he recorded a 4th & a 3rd in 2010 & 2011, both times with F. Schleck there and both times followed by very disappointing showing in the Tour de France by the way. Luxembourg is the only notable performance of Fuglsang this season, while Horner has a 2nd in Tirreno plus top-10 in Pais Vasco and California.

No need really to take Fuglsang with Andy absent, with Klöden, Fränk, Zubeldia already there who are better GC-riders. And Monfort, who outperformed Fuglsang in last years Vuelta, almost always shows he is a better domestique than Fuglsang. With Fuglsang probably leaving the team next year you might as well take Horner, who is simply just a level above Fuglsang in GC-riding anyway.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Fuglsang has disappointed in all Grand Tours he has ridden so far.

Unlike Horner who has been absolutely brillaint, right?.. 11th in Vuelta is just a good as Horners 9th in the Tour.

And he dind't have a great showing in Switzerland, where he recorded a 4th & a 3rd in 2010 & 2011, both times with F. Schleck

Fuglsang had no intention of a top result in the GC this year. He was there for Frank. Watch stage 8 again. Did exellent and then took a day off on the next stage.

I'm sure Luxembourg is the only notable performance of Fuglsang this season, while Horner has a 2nd in Tirreno plus top-10 in Pais Vasco and California.

True. He did great in Tirreno. Back in, what was it?.. March? And a top-10 in a race like California is hardly noticeably, is it. And he was even the team leader in that race.

No need really to take Fuglsang with Andy absent, with Klöden, Fränk, Zubeldia already there who are better GC-riders. And Monfort, who outperformed Fuglsang in last years Vuelta, almost always shows he is a better domestique than Fuglsang.

They are. They are better GC riders than Jakob. But they didn't steal his position in the last hour. Horner did. Horner is the one I'm comparing him with.

With Fuglsang probably leaving the team next year you might as well take Horner, who is simply just a level above Fuglsang in GC-riding anyway.

Jakob is leaving this team just as everyone else is. And 'a level above in GC-riding'? Are we still basing this in his epic top-10 in the race that is California?...

 

[Christian]

Fuglsang has disappointed in all Grand Tours he has ridden so far. And he dind't have a great showing in Switzerland, where he recorded a 4th & a 3rd in 2010 & 2011, both times with F. Schleck there and both times followed by very disappointing showing in the Tour de France by the way. Luxembourg is the only notable performance of Fuglsang this season, while Horner has a 2nd in Tirreno plus top-10 in Pais Vasco and California.

No need really to take Fuglsang with Andy absent, with Klöden, Fränk, Zubeldia already there who are better GC-riders. And Monfort, who outperformed Fuglsang in last years Vuelta, almost always shows he is a better domestique than Fuglsang. With Fuglsang probably leaving the team next year you might as well take Horner, who is simply just a level above Fuglsang in GC-riding anyway.

Yes I agree with all of this but it still seems ridiculous to replace him with Horner out of all people. If they had left Fuglsang off for Irizar, Roulston or Gerdemann it would have been legit, but the thing that bugs me is that Horner did none of the preparation races ...

That being said I agree that Horner's domestique potential might still be higher than Fuglsang's. It's just not fair, that's all But life ain't fair innit?

 

[Cimber]

Fuglsang has disappointed in all Grand Tours he has ridden so far.

He did quite well in the Vuelta last year, expecially considering he hadnt prepared for it, and did it following the Tour. Finished 11 overall and had a day in the leaders jersey. Was in top 10 till the last hard stage (iirc) where the fatigue from the Tour started to kick in.

I think he could have done quite well in this years Giro too (which was his big goal), but in the Tour he has indeed not been great.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Yes I agree with all of this but it still seems ridiculous to replace him with Horner out of all people. If they had left Fuglsang off for Irizar, Roulston or Gerdemann it would have been legit, but the thing that bugs me is that Horner did none of the preparation races ...

That being said I agree that Horner's domestique potential might still be higher than Fuglsang's. It's just not fair, that's all But life ain't fair innit?

How do you know he was replaced with Horner? Maybe Irizar, Roulston or Gerdemann was.

I don't think Fuglsang was ever going to ride the Tour this year.

 

[Angliru]

I imagine there's more drama in most teams than we think. RSNT is a Bruyneel/Armstrong descendant and just is limelighted by frothing at the mouth fanatics who keep the focus there and only there. OK Andy Schleck is injured in a crash, Cancellara was injured in a crash. Klöden has a knee problem. American riders couldn't not make the Tour Team until Johan was reminded his title sporsor is U.S. All the other "recent" news is hardly a surprise.

This team is simply under the magnifying glass more than others here.

The punching bag. But sport is all about drama. I prefer it on the road in a race.

I watched the TdF 2003 stage to Luz A last night. Amazing the number of fans lining the final climb compared to what we see today. Great racing despite it all.

I think you're in denial mode. This team is self-destructing. Their 2 high profile brothers are definitely bailing after the season, contract or no contract. Their young up and coming talent Fuglsang has announced to all that will listen that he won't be back. Publicly played power struggles (at least 3) between Bruyneel and the Schlecks. Minimal wins, 2 by Cancellara but none in the monuments or classics, only Fuglsang's Luxembourg stage race win and Frank's TdS podium to show for all the talent in the team. If any one is happy on this team we have yet to hear from them.

With great expectations and fanfare comes the scrutiny as you said. It's obvious this team hasn't lived up to the hype and publicly displayed drama by Bruyneel, Horner, the Schlecks, Fuglsang, Andersen and Becca is obviously indicative of other problems that maybe haven't even come to the surface yet. I can't imagine a WT team dealing with as much turmoil and drama as this one and I challenge you to name one.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Does Radioshack know the competition is to have a rider deliver the fastest overall time and not have the highest number of participants die of old age before they reach paris?

 

[pmcg76]

I imagine there's more drama in most teams than we think. RSNT is a Bruyneel/Armstrong descendant and just is limelighted by frothing at the mouth fanatics who keep the focus there and only there. OK Andy Schleck is injured in a crash, Cancellara was injured in a crash. Klöden has a knee problem. American riders couldn't not make the Tour Team until Johan was reminded his title sporsor is U.S. All the other "recent" news is hardly a surprise.

This team is simply under the magnifying glass more than others here.

The punching bag. But sport is all about drama. I prefer it on the road in a race.

I watched the TdF 2003 stage to Luz A last night. Amazing the number of fans lining the final climb compared to what we see today. Great racing despite it all.

Maybe you have just come to the realisation that the haters have been right all along.

RadioShack was a vanity project for Armstong and once he bailed, the sponsors looked to get out or at least reduce their investment as was predicted by the haters all those years ago.

Luckily they found Beccas who was also looking to reduce his investment so it was a win-win for both parties. Both got to decrease their investment but still have a super-strong team with Bruyneel in particular being happy with getting the Schlecks.

Sadly, 30+ guys were left in the wilderness though most of them did manage to find other jobs, many had to drop down a level or two. Both parties were correctly ridiculed for such a move.

The problem with just putting two teams into one is that there will be problems meshing especially with so many egos floating about. This was of course all predicted by the haters. RSNT was a team built solely for the Tour with Cancellara as a sop to the other races, sadly Cance bite the dust and RSNT has revealed itself for what was expected.

A team riven by conflict not living up to expectations and seemingly falling apart at the seams. Guys taking pot-shots at each other and already guys looking to leave the team. There hasnt been this much drama in a team since Astana 09, jeez who was involved then also.

Of course RSNT can redeem itself at the Tour but if they dont, what will happen at the end of the year? It's looking more and more likely that the haters were right all along.

As for that last comment, you are staring to sound more and more like Polish.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He did quite well in the Vuelta last year, expecially considering he hadnt prepared for it, and did it following the Tour. Finished 11 overall and had a day in the leaders jersey. Was in top 10 till the last hard stage (iirc) where the fatigue from the Tour started to kick in.

I think he could have done quite well in this years Giro too (which was his big goal), but in the Tour he has indeed not been great.

Well, it's all in the eye of the beholder though. And maybe the fact that finished 11th said more about that Vuelta than about him. Look at what guys were in front of him and what preparation they got (coming back from injuries etc). Monfort, his teammate, also rode the TDF and as a domestique, yet easily placed himself before Fuglsang in both Tour and Vuelta of 2011. If i remember correctly, Fuglsang was supposed to be team leader for Vuelta and had a free role for the Tour, or maybe this is just the impression i got. So i don't see how he should "demand" a spot for the TDF, let alone as a captain (which he stated).

 

[theyoungest]

Well, it's all in the eye of the beholder though. And maybe the fact that finished 11th said more about that Vuelta than about him. Look at what guys were in front of him and what preparation they got (coming back from injuries etc). Monfort, his teammate, also rode the TDF and as a domestique, yet easily placed himself before Fuglsang in both Tour and Vuelta of 2011. If i remember correctly, Fuglsang was supposed to be team leader for Vuelta and had a free role for the Tour, or maybe this is just the impression i got. So i don't see how he should "demand" a spot for the TDF, let alone as a captain (which he stated).

He wants to move to another team, to get a spot in the TDF, and to be a captain. I'm not sure if he wants to be the captain in the TDF itself, maybe our Danish friends can help us out with that?

I mean, even Saxo won't sign him as a TDF captain, for obvious reasons. And I can't see who else would be interested. Argos?