Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[BillytheKid]

I think you're in denial mode. This team is self-destructing. Their 2 high profile brothers are definitely bailing after the season, contract or no contract. Their young up and coming talent Fuglsang has announced to all that will listen that he won't be back. Publicly played power struggles (at least 3) between Bruyneel and the Schlecks. Minimal wins, 2 by Cancellara but none in the monuments or classics, only Fuglsang's Luxembourg stage race win and Frank's TdS podium to show for all the talent in the team. If any one is happy on this team we have yet to hear from them.

With great expectations and fanfare comes the scrutiny as you said. It's obvious this team hasn't lived up to the hype and publicly displayed drama by Bruyneel, Horner, the Schlecks, Fuglsang, Andersen and Becca is obviously indicative of other problems that maybe haven't even come to the surface yet. I can't imagine a WT team dealing with as much turmoil and drama as this one and I challenge you to name one.

I not denying it. S#%*-for-luck this year so far, but so what. It happens. No different with so many other teams in the sport past or present. If Cancellara would have been able to score at Flanders and/or Roubaix instead of the crash and injury we wouldn't talking so much about it. Frank's second at the Suisse might as well have been last in the condemnation put forth by most.

Similar criticism of Cadel, but he's doing the "Tour only" approuch this year and my guess is that awesome Wiggo will crack as usual in a grand tour. The season is far from over.

I look RSNT Tour Team and wonder. Cancellara is a great asset. With Voigt as well they have two riders who can keep the team's place up front. I am still banking on Klöden as their best GC choice. If they ride for him alone, and that includes Frank, they still could pull something out this season with a Podium at the Tour.

 

[DominicDecoco]

The poor and out of form Fuglsang just won another victory for RSNT when he won the Danish Championships in ITT today.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He wants to move to another team, to get a spot in the TDF, and to be a captain. I'm not sure if he wants to be the captain in the TDF itself, maybe our Danish friends can help us out with that?

I mean, even Saxo won't sign him as a TDF captain, for obvious reasons. And I can't see who else would be interested. Argos?

That's possible. He was talking about riding the TDF and being a road captain... maybe not necessarilly both at the same time. Still, he shouldn't be claiming a TDF spot. That being said, i'm not sure going for an average age of 80+ is the best way to ride a succesful TDF for Radioshack.

 

[kurtinsc]

While I wouldn't predict a shack rider to win... the tour fields is so weak this year that I wouldn't write it off entirely.

Kloden and F. Schleck have put forward good Tour rides before. While I wouldn't bet on either, I wouldn't be shocked if things fell out so that either were in contention toward the end of the race. With no Contador or Armstrong dominating all aspects and no A. Schleck who'd be a superior climber... it seems very up in the air. One rider having a single great day might just be enough this year.

 

[cineteq]

the tour fields is so weak this year that I wouldn't write it off entirely.

Beep...beep...July-only fan detected

 

[Publicus]

Beep...beep...July-only fan detected

You need to recalibrate your JOF detector. Kurtinsc goes way back and is a fairly active participant throughout the year.

 

[cineteq]

You need to recalibrate your JOF detector. Kurtinsc goes way back and is a fairly active participant throughout the year.

Therefore my winky emoticon. No calibration needed

 

[Cimber]

He wants to move to another team, to get a spot in the TDF, and to be a captain. I'm not sure if he wants to be the captain in the TDF itself, maybe our Danish friends can help us out with that?

I mean, even Saxo won't sign him as a TDF captain, for obvious reasons. And I can't see who else would be interested. Argos?

Well I think he does wanna be Tour captain eventually, but he will probably settle for a Giro/Vuelta leadership to start with. But he could pull a Lövkvist and move to a french team like AG2R, FDJ etc. That way he would get a free/captain role in the Tour. If he was to move to Saxo it would be Giro or Vuelta only. Imho he is reaching to far talking about the Tour leadership.

 

[Cancellator]

Well I think he does wanna be Tour captain eventually, but he will probably settle for a Giro/Vuelta leadership to start with. But he could pull a Lövkvist and move to a french team like AG2R, FDJ etc. That way he would get a free/captain role in the Tour. If he was to move to Saxo it would be Giro or Vuelta only. Imho he is reaching to far talking about the Tour leadership.

I think that regardless of what's happening in the team, repeatedly bragging to the press about moving is a bit unprofessional. I'm sure many (if not all, except Horner or something) of the riders on RSNT would rather be somewhere else, but you don't hear them insist on it every month.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Fuglsang is one of my Top 3 favourite riders, he´s 1 year older than me, and his size and weight are just the same as mine, and I like his person itself.

Only thing I can´t understand in the moment, and which surprises me a lot, is that he´s complaining in public. Before this season, he said this would be a deciding year in his career. He was allowed to prepare for the Giro with Rohregger, doing his own stuff all winter and spring. Then he gets injured, skips the Giro, rides a rather weak Tour de Suisse (maybe due to his problems before), and complains about this team. I don´t like RSNT at all, and am glad to see them disappearing after 2012, but Fuglsang shouldn´t make the statements he does in the moment, because he´s not in this position to do them. He and Kreuziger now share the same problem, but Kreuziger doesn´t say a thing, which is correct, IMHO.

 

[screaming fist]

Fuglsang simply doesn't know what do tell the press and what not. It was the same when he was with Riis.

"I'm going to stay for two more years"
"Nothing is certain"
"I'm happy at Saxo Bank"
"I'm going to change teams"
"I'm happy at my new team"
"I'm going back to Riis"
"I'm talking with a lot of teams"

 

[JPM London]

Fuglsang simply doesn't know what do tell the press and what not. It was the same when he was with Riis.

"I'm going to stay for two more years"
"Nothing is certain"
"I'm happy at Saxo Bank"
"I'm going to change teams"
"I'm happy at my new team"
"I'm going back to Riis"
"I'm talking with a lot of teams"

Though - much of that he actually never said but is what headlines have extrapolated or is how you choose to spin it... So, no, really

 

[Christian]

The problem for Fuglsang is that he has no results to back up his GTGC leadership claims ... this year he was supposed to bring them but unfortunately injury took him out.

He should move to GreenEDGE

 

[Publicus]

The problem for Fuglsang is that he has no results to back up his GTGC leadership claims ... this year he was supposed to bring them but unfortunately injury took him out.

He should move to GreenEDGE

Agreed with everything you said above except for the GreenEDGE part. He talks about leading a team at a grand tour, but nothing in his results suggests that he has the physical or mental makeup to handle the burdens of leadership.

 

[Ferminal]

Agreed with everything you said above except for the GreenEDGE part. He talks about leading a team at a grand tour, but nothing in his results suggests that he has the physical or mental makeup to handle the burdens of leadership.

He does seem like a lesser version of Klöden.

BMC would be OK as they have only had TJVG for stage races where Evans wasn't competitive. Good for the $$$ too.

Amadio post-Nibali would be great, Sagan will lead the team and Basso will always be a bigger name. Maybe Vacansoleil or AG2R.

There are enough options there if he doesn't want to head back to Riis.

 

[BillytheKid]

Fuglsang probably had the backing of the Frank, but Horner's Olympic selection and a U.S. sponsor having not one U.S. rider on the team made him the odd man out.

Traditionally Horner's form might be questioned. It's almost show time and we will soon see.

RSNT is a team that will do much better here, than most think. Horner can be valuable as any climber and maybe more so than Fuglsang in the mountains early on. Stage 7 (ironically the stage of last year's crash) may even afford Horner a shot at stage with the finishing climb almost identical in many ways to the finish at Arrate in the Basque Country and even Sierra Hill at the Cali, but the GC battle will be on here and will make that no easy task and a matter of some chance on finishing climb that suits him.

Fuglsang will have his day, but will have to wait.

 

[OctaBech]

I think the real reason Fuglsang isn't on the TdF roster can be found in Tour de Suisse. On the last stage Fränk attacked on the right place and at the right time, but Fuglsang failed in keeping up. Horner would have been able to follow and help on the streetch between the mountains. One should not forget that there was only 11sec between Fränk and the yellow jersey.
That Fuglsang rides a solid TT is little to no help for the rest of the team, if he can't drop the Sky domestiques in the mountains. Klöden might have shown less this year than Fuglsang, but his mountain climbing history in the TdF is much much better.

Fuglsang wasn't "replaced" by one rider, but by 6.

 

[DominicDecoco]

I think the real reason Fuglsang isn't on the TdF roster can be found in Tour de Suisse. On the last stage Fränk attacked on the right place and at the right time, but Fuglsang failed in keeping up. Horner would have been able to follow and help on the streetch between the mountains. One should not forget that there was only 11sec between Fränk and the yellow jersey.
That Fuglsang rides a solid TT is little to no help for the rest of the team, if he can't drop the Sky domestiques in the mountains. Klöden might have shown less this year than Fuglsang, but his mountain climbing history in the TdF is much much better.

Fuglsang wasn't "replaced" by one rider, but by 6.

But again.. On stage 8 Jakob was one of the best on the climb splitting the front group and dropped, among others, Rui Costa before Frank made his attack.

 

[JPM London]

I think the real reason Fuglsang isn't on the TdF roster can be found in Tour de Suisse. On the last stage Fränk attacked on the right place and at the right time, but Fuglsang failed in keeping up. Horner would have been able to follow and help on the streetch between the mountains. One should not forget that there was only 11sec between Fränk and the yellow jersey.
That Fuglsang rides a solid TT is little to no help for the rest of the team, if he can't drop the Sky domestiques in the mountains. Klöden might have shown less this year than Fuglsang, but his mountain climbing history in the TdF is much much better.

Fuglsang wasn't "replaced" by one rider, but by 6.

Yes, because it's always standard procedure that when your captain attacks from the front you try to do everything to catch up with him. That's so brilliant because it at the same time will make it easier for the other contenders to keep up with him...

Oh, wait a minute - maybe that's not so smart after all? Maybe that's why it's actually not the norm after all...

 

[phanatic]

Yes, because it's always standard procedure that when your captain attacks from the front you try to do everything to catch up with him. That's so brilliant because it at the same time will make it easier for the other contenders to keep up with him...

Oh, wait a minute - maybe that's not so smart after all? Maybe that's why it's actually not the norm after all...

Not the norm on other teams, perhaps.

 

[OctaBech]

But again.. On stage 8 Jakob was one of the best on the climb splitting the front group and dropped, among others, Rui Costa before Frank made his attack.

But Jakob himself died in the attack, that's the difference between him and Horner and it's a big difference going into a TdF with the Sky train.

Yes, because it's always standard procedure that when your captain attacks from the front you try to do everything to catch up with him. That's so brilliant because it at the same time will make it easier for the other contenders to keep up with him...

Oh, wait a minute - maybe that's not so smart after all? Maybe that's why it's actually not the norm after all...

Did you feel clever while typing that? If you do not know the meaning of 11sec you really shouldn't use sarcasm. And it wasn't contenders but contender.

 

[DominicDecoco]

But Jakob himself died in the attack, that's the difference between him and Horner and it's a big difference going into a TdF with the Sky train.

This make no sense. Jakob was a domestique for Frank in Suisse. He had no intention to stay with the front group once his work was done - just like any other domestique. Why on earth should he be pacing with 80% instead of 100% just to be able to keep up with the selection group?...

And what are you basing your Horner postulate on from this season?

 

[dlwssonic]

I kind of agree with the decision as horner, kloden, zubeldia and montfort are all stronger climbers than fuglsang. But maybe they could have sacrificed a flat rider for fuglsang.

 

[OctaBech]

This make no sense. Jakob was a domestique for Frank in Suisse. He had no intention to stay with the front group once his work was done - just like any other domestique. Why on earth should he be pacing with 80% instead of 100% just to be able to keep up with the selection group?...

And what are you basing your Horner postulate on from this season?

Why should Fuglsang as a domestique stay in the group? Because it was the last day in the race, there were no other days to save up energy for.

I'm a bit puzzled about the season bias when it comes Horner. It's not like we've seen Fuglsang doing anything special in the mountains this season, it has been a while since he singlehandedly dragged back Contador's attack in P-N. At the moment one shouldn't expect more from Fuglsang in the mountain than one can from a rider like CAS.

I guess there's the chance that Kim A. did a tactical error and expected Fränk to ride solo, but it's more likely they wanted Fränk to sit in a minor group which had thrown the yellow jersey. Preferably a group with Fuglsang, in which case he just didn't deliver.

But as I stated in my initial post, it's not just Horner which outweighted Fuglsang but 5 other riders too.

 

[JPM London]

Did you feel clever while typing that? If you do not know the meaning of 11sec you really shouldn't use sarcasm. And it wasn't contenders but contender.

Did you

But honestly - how many riders see it as their first obligation to hunt down their captain when he attacks?

Completely agree with you that Fuglsang wasn't of much use in that situation - no one would be. If you meant that he should have attacked at a later point and tried to bridge the gap, then maybe - but most of the time you still wouldn't want to do that as you still risk two things: Dragging others with you and increasing the general pace of the group. If either happened it would not be of help - quite the opposite - and it be wasted energy at the same time.

What would have been helpful is if he had attacked prior to Schleck and so would have been up the road if and when Schleck attacked in addition to putting pressure on GC as well as Fuglsang wasn't that far down in time IIRC.

Had he attacked prior to Schleck and had he then been unable to help when Schleck had bridged up, then I'd have agreed completely with you.