Live coverage of Sprint Finishes: Head-on camera or Helicam shot?

[Armchair cyclist]

The discussion so for (from TdF stage One thread): apologies if I have left out any relevant comments.

Another thing: I really, really don't hope that showing the sprint from the helicopter live is going to be a thing.

Disagree strongly, unless the argument is that downdraught is an issue (which I have not heard riders complain of) I find the overhead view much more informative in terms of relative speed, identifying riders, lines taken, width of spaces,: everything I would want to know about how the final few hundred mertes play out.

Yeah, we could see who was first and second, the rest were impossible. Viviani was sixth, but he wasn't on the heli shot once.

It's fine (and deeply necessary) to have heli views after the live one, but the front camera needs to be applied for the live sprint. I want to their faces, not their backs the first time I watch the sprint.

So we could do with the zoom being drawn back a bit, but it was only for the last 20metres that the field of view was restricted to 2 riders. I'm not at all sure that it would have been clearer as to whether Bennett had remained ahead of Sagan for 4th on a head-on shot, and that was the only info we lost from the tight zoom.

It's just wrong.

Split screen!

Completely disagree with this. I can't stand the front view. It makes absolutely no sense as it's really hard to tell who's winning or who won most of the time. Imagine if they showed 100m sprints from the front. Those Usain Bolt Olympic wins wouldn't have been nearly as interesting to watch.

Helicopter view should absolutely be the live standard and they can show the front view afterwards.

So you still think the heli view is a splendid idea? Today, we had no chance of seeing how close the chasers were, nor who was involved in the sprint. Horribly annoying.

I have no idea what you're talking about unless you're talking about something other than the final sprint. There were no chasers and you could see everything. I'm just referring to bunch sprint finishes. In any case, you can zoom in/out as needed but I just rewatched yesterday's finish and the view was great.

Nothing more annoying to me than a heads up shot in a bunch sprint when you have no idea who's in front or who's gaining on who and you have to just see who raises their hand.

I'm talking about today (stage 2).

Also, just look at the front wheels. I can almost always tell who won.

Ahh, didn't realize you were talking about today. Yeah, the producers should always make a decision on the view based on the situation.

As for bunch sprints, sure, you can tell whose wheel is in front when they show slo-mo replays from the front, but not in real time when they are scattered across the road at top speed.

I disagree on the last part but I think it's fairly obvious we won't come to an agreement so let's bury it

Maybe a split screen of both angles simultaneously woudl be cool

Agreed. You obviously have way better vision or a quicker eye-to-brain processing time than I do. I usually don't have any idea until someone celebrates in that scenario.

The heli shot is always delayed a second or two, so I would imagine that would be difficult to get right.

 

[hayneplane]

Split screen would be amazing if the technology was good enough to fully match them both up.

The overhead always seems to make it much clearer who has won even with the footage rolling at the same speed and its frustrating on the head on shot frequently being unable to determine who crossed the line first.

 

[BlueRoads]

For me it's not just a question of this or that. It's okay if they show them from the front, if the camera is far enough away. I don't need to see every single tooth. If the zoom is right, I'm fine with the front view. If it makes me see their faces up close but completely shuts out the situation, it's annoying.

Something similar goes for the heli-view: If it's a good one, it's great, if it's a bad one, it does not tell me anything.

Please no split screen. I'm viewing on my laptop, the screen is small enough.

I don't think this can be solved by a simple yes or no, it needs great directing and camerawork and those can fail in both cases. I think it needs to be handled really flexible, depending on which pictures you have and what the situation is like.

 

[Leinster]

Head-on view tells the viewer nothing about who's winning.

The shot as the riders cross the line should be in the vertical plane of the finish line, which would be similar to, well, any other sport involving crossing a finish line first, anywhere. That can be a heli/drone shot from directly above, or, if space and general conditions at the finish allow, a stadium-style shot from an elevated angle. This is particularly important in a close sprint finish.

But in general, the approach should be filmed from a camera following the action, rather than a stationary one, if only to catch in real time the motion of a rider moving through the bunch like Ewan today.

 

[JosephK]

One day, maybe drones can be used for the final kilometer stretch.

 

[Tonton]

Both. Today's stage was well recorded. Just have good TV coverage,

 

[Jspear]

Haha who would have known that for at least right now more prefer the overhead shots. I just think you can see so much more of what’s actually going on in the sprint.

 

[Sciatic]

I think it depends on the race situation. I love the front on view when, for instance, the peloton or a group of chasers is closing on the leaders as we did in stage two. I know that the telescoping effect sometimes distorts that view (i.e., “Objects in your mirror may be closer than they appear”) but I’ve learned to compensate for that.
Also, the overhead, which is great for post-race analysis, is from too far up makes the riders look more like computer-game pieces.

I’m glad we get to see both views eventually.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

One day, maybe drones can be used for the final kilometer stretch.

Drones and multicast, so the viewer can pick whichever view he prefers. I also hope in the future the 3 camera bikes can be replaced by multiple drones, so riders who have fallen behind, can still be viewed/followed. I hate not being able to see how riders are doing in a mountain stage who are not covered by camera 1 (break), 2 (favorites) or 3 (peloton) when everything is shattered.

 

[RedheadDane]

Might sound strange, but one of the things I like about head-on view is the feeling that the riders are coming barreling towards you, and the fact that it isn't always clear who wins, with riders even popping out of nowhere, like Ewan did yesterday.

 

[tobydawq]

People are crazy.

Crazy!!

 

[SafeBet]

What about the side moving camera we sometimes get for the Champs Elysées stage?

 

[tobydawq]

What about the side moving camera we sometimes get for the Champs Elysées stage?

To me that is even worse than the heli shot because you can only see one row of riders which in Cavendish' era was one rider.

 

[SafeBet]

To me that is even worse than the heli shot because you can only see one row of riders which in Cavendish' era was one rider.

Would it help if said cameras (both heli and side) had a broader view on the sprinting field, say 20/30 metres instead of 5/10?

 

[Breezy1985]

Why not try mix both. Straight on blocks half the riders and gives very little about gaps and straight up can be a bit hard to follow but why not use the hight but looking down at an angle from front or behind

 

[Flamin]

No brainer: head-on view any day of the week. Overhead as a replay.

It's a big part of the suspense to see riders -seemingly- go side by side, not knowing who's in front until they cross the finish line. Especially when watching with someone else, it's fun to give live commentary and guess who's going to take it.

An overhead view totally kills that.

 

[Bardamu]

No brainer: head-on view any day of the week. Overhead as a replay.

It's a big part of the suspense to see riders -seemingly- go side by side, not knowing who's in front until they cross the finish line. Especially when watching with someone else, it's fun to give live commentary and guess who's going to take it.

An overhead view totally kills that.

Basically this.

 

[Jspear]

To me that is even worse than the heli shot because you can only see one row of riders which in Cavendish' era was one rider.

Ah 2009 stage 21 was a joy to watch as Cav came barreling down

 

[LaFlorecita]

Heli, I couldn't see sh.. yesterday on the head-on images because of the lighting

 

[jaylew]

No brainer: head-on view any day of the week. Overhead as a replay.

It's a big part of the suspense to see riders -seemingly- go side by side, not knowing who's in front until they cross the finish line. Especially when watching with someone else, it's fun to give live commentary and guess who's going to take it.

An overhead view totally kills that.

Would you like that same view in running, swimming, car racing, etc...or just cycling? To me, it's more exciting to initially find out who won by SEEING it rather than finding out from a commentator or waiting on someone to raise his hands.

 

[tobydawq]

Would you like that same view in running, swimming, car racing, etc...or just cycling? To me, it's more exciting to initially find out who won by SEEING it rather than finding out from a commentator or waiting on someone to raise his hands.

We do get that view in the other sports you mention (maybe not swimming).

I have to say that I have a hard time exactly putting my finger on the exact reason why the live heli shot bugs me as much as it does but I really dislike it.

I love to see it after the sprint, though.

 

[Flamin]

Would you like that same view in running, swimming, car racing, etc...or just cycling? To me, it's more exciting to initially find out who won by SEEING it rather than finding out from a commentator or waiting on someone to raise his hands.

No, but those are completely different sports. A 100m sprint for example can be captured perfectly with side view by a fixed camera. Same with swimming. Obviously that's not as easy in cycling because it's much more dynamic.

Also, you can still see from head-on view who's going to win on most occasions before the winner raises his hands. It's not a total shot in the dark like it could be with running or swimming.

Another reason is not seeing the grit, emotion on the rider's face from heli view, let alone how much harder it is to actually properly identify a rider.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Running has side on, Motor sport has a diagonal, swimming side but higher: what other sport does head on?

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Another reason is not seeing the grit, emotion on the rider's face from heli view, let alone how much harder it is to actually properly identify a rider.

If there are several faces on the screen, then focus on, and definition of, facial expression is not very clear: that is far better captured by the still or a (non-live, obviously) slo-mo.

 

[Leinster]

Running has side on, Motor sport has a diagonal, swimming side but higher: what other sport does head on?

None of them.

I'd like to see something like this;

With transponders and digital technology, it shouldn't even be hugely difficult to have a rider identifier pop up as they cross the line.


Obviously, the rowing finish line is, by necessity, a lot wider than a road cycling finish line, so the 2 aren't 100% compatible, but I think looking for something like the above could be a good starting point.