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Livestrong did you know ...

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BroDeal said:
So tricking people into giving to a charity while he uses the brand that is built to put money into his own pockets is considered smart now?
Since he's not pocketing the money that people are giving to the the charity, he's not tricking them about anything. What are you talking about?

BroDeal said:
Armstrong is a scumbag.
Probably. So what?

BroDeal said:
Anyone with a ounce of integrity would name their for profit operation differently than the non-profit one so there would be no confusion. That it was not named differently shows intent.
So Armstrong is lacking in all integrity, per your standards. So what?

BroDeal said:
All ad revenue for Livestrong.com goes to Demand Media, which was set up by a notorious purveyor of spyware and funded by venture capitalists. Before the global meltdown, Demand Media had plans to go public. The people enriched would have been the CEO, Richard Rosenblatt, a bunch of VCs, and Armstrong.
So????

BroDeal said:
Strangely enough, Rosenblatt, CEO of Demand Media, also sits on the board of directors of FRS.
I'm looking and looking, and I don't see a point in this entire post. Spell it out, Man. What are you trying to say?
 

TheArbiter

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How much money are we talking about here? Google ads for a video on youtube with 300,000 views on a regular basis wouild probably make about $60,000 dollars a year. Not much by Lance's standards, and given that he rarely posts up a video in person, it's probably closer to 20,000 a year.

Hardly doing it for the money then. It probably just pays a staffer or two. I wouldn't get too excited about it.
 
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was there not a link put up a while back that showed that livestrong was one of the worst charities for efficiency? as in how much of the dollar donated actually was used for the charity's purposes, not going in the pockets of people such as the very very handsomely paid ceo
 
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One thing to keep in mind is the mission of Livestrong is public awareness, which is more difficult to measure in terms of donated $ efficacy. I can't find a lot of data on how they rate different charitible organizations.
 
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the truth. said:
if lance posts a vid the average views is 350,000.
google ads pay for each ad and the page refer clicks are massive at around 30%

double income on hits
biggest fraud ever!.

im confused as to why it is a fraud....?

and unless you are paying to see his videos what do you care..

as for the transparenct thing.. LAF and LS.com are two different things, very obviously two different things (unless you are dump) and i dont get the issue.. the foundation does his thing, the .com does its thing (i judst discovered the wife has actually been a member on livestrong for years.. uses it to track her diet etc etc etc.. doesnt cost her a penny!!!!)

im still not sure why some people around here begrudge people the right to have a home, earn money, even be a millionaire.. the guys won seven tours ffs, and he still has less money than some two bit *** portugese idiot who has kicked a ball around a bit for man utd and now real madrid..
 
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Livestrong

Does anyone really know how much money Livestrong.com gives to different cancer charities, as well as to fallen cyclists? Personally, talking to people, it is quite a larger amount. Lance has done more to raise awareness for cancer than anyone I know, I recently returned from M.D. Anderson, the number one cancer institute in the world; I always wear my bracelet, being a cancer survivor, and former pro cyclist, and as I looked at the many patients and staff there, so many wore them as well. So before everyone starts *****ing about for profit or non profit, look at what the company has done. Have any of you made such a HUGE difference for people?
 
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bkefanatic said:
Does anyone really know how much money Livestrong.com gives to different cancer charities, as well as to fallen cyclists? Personally, talking to people, it is quite a larger amount. Lance has done more to raise awareness for cancer than anyone I know, I recently returned from M.D. Anderson, the number one cancer institute in the world; I always wear my bracelet, being a cancer survivor, and former pro cyclist, and as I looked at the many patients and staff there, so many wore them as well. So before everyone starts *****ing about for profit or non profit, look at what the company has done. Have any of you made such a HUGE difference for people?

dont you mean livestrong.org?

scribe said:
Looking now.....
Found this http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6570

The CEO makes $200k annually for a $30M+ fund. A typical handsomely paid CEO makes in excess of 7 figures.


interesting link.. im still trying to work out how livestrong is rated BELOW some other charitities that it is clearly more efficient than..
 

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bkefanatic said:
Does anyone really know how much money Livestrong.com gives to different cancer charities, as well as to fallen cyclists? Personally, talking to people, it is quite a larger amount. Lance has done more to raise awareness for cancer than anyone I know, I recently returned from M.D. Anderson, the number one cancer institute in the world; I always wear my bracelet, being a cancer survivor, and former pro cyclist, and as I looked at the many patients and staff there, so many wore them as well. So before everyone starts *****ing about for profit or non profit, look at what the company has done. Have any of you made such a HUGE difference for people?

LAF gives money to fallen cyclists?

LAF is small time in the Cancer game. They give about $22 million a year to various programs. ACS gives $685,270,000. The Susan G. Komen Gave $199,911,818. The CEO of the Susan G Koman foundation is paid less then the CEO of LAF yet manages 10 times the funds.

It appears Armstrong's efforts in PR have allowed some to excuse anything he does.
 

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scribe said:
In other words. He got a pay raise of more than $500 to get boosted over $200k.

The CEO of the Susan G Koman foundation is paid less then the CEO of LAF yet manages 10 times the funds. The most recent financials have him at just under $300k
 
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Eva Maria: Let's set aside non-profit fund performance. Pursuant to this thread, what is the function of for-profit Livestong.com and is it designed to pay Lance Armstrong as some suggest?
 
scribe said:
The two different organizations might fall under differing laws as to how they collect money and how the money is reported. Just because something is 'for profit' doesn't mean that someone is collecting pay from it. An organization can profit without payouts to executive officers. Has anyone actually researched the tax records for Livestrong?

I assume the Foundation is a 501(c)(3) and has to comply with certain rules and tax regulations to maintain that status. LiveStrong is either an LLC, corporation or other legal entity whose primary goal under any applicable state law would be to maximize the return to its investors, members, partners, or shareholders (which ever is applicable).

And the amount of pay/salary is not at issue. Lance could draw a salary from the 501(c)(3), just like the thousands/millions of folks that work for a variety of other non-profit organization. The distinction is that the 501(c)(3)'s goal is NOT to maximize the return of its investors, but a charitable aim.
 
scribe said:
Eva Maria: Let's set aside non-profit fund performance. Pursuant to this thread, what is the function of for-profit Livestong.com and is it designed to pay Lance Armstrong as some suggest?

Yes. A for profit business, by applicable corporate law, maximizes the returns of its shareholders/investors. If it doesn't, then the entity can be sued by its shareholder/investors.
 
dimspace said:
im confused as to why it is a fraud....?

and unless you are paying to see his videos what do you care..

as for the transparenct thing.. LAF and LS.com are two different things, very obviously two different things (unless you are dump) and i dont get the issue.. the foundation does his thing, the .com does its thing (i judst discovered the wife has actually been a member on livestrong for years.. uses it to track her diet etc etc etc.. doesnt cost her a penny!!!!)

im still not sure why some people around here begrudge people the right to have a home, earn money, even be a millionaire.. the guys won seven tours ffs, and he still has less money than some two bit *** portugese idiot who has kicked a ball around a bit for man utd and now real madrid..

It's not fraud. Or illegal. It is, however, deceptive. Again, Lance could perform all of the merchandising and drive ads at the .org site and have the proceeds flow through the Foundation. He could draw a handsome salarly (not unheard of for CEO's to make 6 or 7 figures at non-profit, unseemly maybe but not unheard or illegal). If the merchandising, etc., flows through a for-profit company that doesn't have to make public filings (I assume it is a private corporation), then the salary and profit distributions remain private. That's the only reason I could think of maintaining two different corporate entities. And I don't believe Lance is an employee of the LAF. I could be wrong about that though.
 

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scribe said:
Eva Maria: Let's set aside non-profit fund performance. Pursuant to this thread, what is the function of for-profit Livestong.com and is it designed to pay Lance Armstrong as some suggest?

Some posters inferred that Doug was underpaid, that LAF had done more then anyone else. Nothing wrong with correcting these misstatements.

The .com goal is simple, leverage the good will of LAF to build a for profit brand. The hypocrisy is easy to see. Armstrong's comeback has little to do with raising Cancer Awareness (As if people were not aware of cancer) it is all about raising awareness of the Armstrong brand.

If you attended the Tour of California you saw lots of Lance posters, but little about cancer. A Livestrong/Nike car drove the course in advance of the race, imploring spectators by loudspeaker to "Get ready to cheer for Lance" Cancer was never mentioned. The goal was to sell Nike shoes and Oakley sunglasses, not educate people about cancer.

If Armstrong truly wanted to raise cancer awareness he would post his daily videos on the .org site and drive traffic there. Instead he drives traffic to the site that makes him $$$$.

The idea for LAF came from Lance's friend College. It was designed to insure Armstrong had an income if he was not able to return to cycling. Beyond Nike's genius move with the yellow bracelet's their fund raising activities are pathetic. Their paltry financials make this clear.

Their "Education" efforts are equally as weak. Back to the Tour of Cali example, there was more time and effort spent on building the Armstrong brand then educating the masses. Even the .org website is often little more then a repackaging of other groups services. An example, the LiveSTRONG Care Plan is thinly-veiled rebadging of "OncoLink" Penn Medicine's online tool (available elsewhere). You get the exact same webpage, but with LAF logos and you have to read a LAF infomercial.

Here's Lance's: http://www.livestrongcareplan.org/

Here's the original: http://www.oncolink.org/oncopilot/
 
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Eva Maria said:
The .com goal is simple, leverage the good will of LAF to build a for profit brand. The hypocrisy is easy to see. Armstrong's comeback has little to do with raising Cancer Awareness (As if people were not aware of cancer) it is all about raising awareness of the Armstrong brand.

I have no doubt there are some colliding interests at stake. Armstrong as a brand, regarding his own name, is something that all celebrities move to capitalize in the form of endorsements, speaking engagements, merchandising, etc. Livestrong unavoidably blends the two interests in ways that understandably raise some eyebrows. However, his name drives the charity at the same time.

All I want to know is there evidence Armstrong uses his Livestrong brand to personally enrich himself in ways that don't relate to reasonable reimbursement for expenses related to administration of the charity. I say that with the caveat that I do not agree with other persons in this thread who suggest the guy ought to get paid. I believe him being paid anything undermines the credibility of the charity.

Again, charitable organizations probably are excluded from using .com as a vehicle for charitable activity. (I didn't look that up, I am just guessing). Also, keep in mind Livestrong probably owns every domain imaginable (.net, .tv, .com, etc) to protect their interests. For right or wrong, someone decided to put the .com to work.
 

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scribe said:
I have no doubt there are some colliding interests at stake. Armstrong as a brand, regarding his own name, is something that all celebrities move to capitalize in the form of endorsements, speaking engagements, merchandising, etc. Livestrong unavoidably blends the two interests in ways that understandably raise some eyebrows. However, his name drives the charity at the same time.

All I want to know is there evidence Armstrong uses his Livestrong brand to personally enrich himself in ways that don't relate to reasonable reimbursement for expenses related to administration of the charity. I say that with the caveat that I do not agree with other persons in this thread who suggest the guy ought to get paid. I believe him being paid anything undermines the credibility of the charity.

Again, charitable organizations probably are excluded from using .com as a vehicle for charitable activity. (I didn't look that up, I am just guessing). Also, keep in mind Livestrong probably owns every domain imaginable (.net, .tv, .com, etc) to protect their interests. For right or wrong, someone decided to put the .com to work.

The most obvious answer to your question is the .org and .com conflict. the .com leverages the Livestrong name to make money for Armstrong and his Spam king partner.

You can also point to the Tour Down Under. Armstrong talked about how this was the first stop of his "Global Cancer Campaign". Primer Rann told the media that he was told by Armstrong's people that all of the $1,000,000 that Armstrong was paid would be going to LAF. The reality was none of it was. The $1,000,000 went into Armstrong pocket. Just like the $2,000,000 he was paid to show up to the Giro.

There are no legal restrictions on using .org or .com
 
bkefanatic said:
Does anyone really know how much money Livestrong.com gives to different cancer charities, as well as to fallen cyclists? Personally, talking to people, it is quite a larger amount. Lance has done more to raise awareness for cancer than anyone I know, I recently returned from M.D. Anderson, the number one cancer institute in the world; I always wear my bracelet, being a cancer survivor, and former pro cyclist, and as I looked at the many patients and staff there, so many wore them as well. So before everyone starts *****ing about for profit or non profit, look at what the company has done. Have any of you made such a HUGE difference for people?


I am really unpersuaded. I am happy that you apparently are in remission, but the charity, which was linked to by someone who I believe is pro-LAF dot whatever shows the charity to run rather high expenses and is lower rated than many other cancer charities. The expenses could be used to mask the lavish lifestyle of its namesake or chief executives. (Just imagine if your paycheck covered only your discretionary needs, but the fund paid all of your major expenses, house, clothing food, 1st class travel and entertainment, assistants. That's living LARGE and STRONG!)

Their mission statement says 1 word about research at the end. I'd be curious to see what research is funded and how much is given. Has anyone drilled into this report to find out those details yet?

So far, ranked against both larger and smaller foundations, they do not appear to do anything very unique aside from its uber-high profile namesake.

Lastly, those of you took econ in high school or college may remember the term 'opportunity cost'. For every dollar that gets spent on cars for clunkers, there is another dollar NOT spent elsewhere. (Let's take gov't out of the equation since they don't play by any rules.) This means that $20m for 'awareness'. (I am sorry, I am not aware of what that means.) is $20m less available to some pointy heads in a lab rolling up their sleeves and maybe curing something. The pointy heads go unfunded, the disease goes uncured, but there are 6 racks of really cool overpriced t-shirts at d!cks sporting goods sporting a black and gold neat swoosh and some cool 'Hey man I REALLY care !' slogan. That next guy will tell you he cares, but I just dropped $30 on a shirt and a bracelet to advertise how much more I care then him. Where the profits go, if they go anywhere, isn't terribly exciting to most. Being able to wear that bracelet or flash that little advertisement for their own aggrandizement is the big payoff for lots of donors.

Sorry, but it's true. If the sporting goods store sends $3 per shirt to LAF, let them put a little can at the exit to the store. Let's compare the revenuesmonth to month. They want that shirt much more than to just give to what they think is a worthy cause, I'd be willing to wager. They want that bracelet. THAT is the payoff. They spent the money so they can advertise how thoughtful they are. The foundation and their funds raised through t-shirt sales are benefiting each other mutually in a way that writing a check towards some vague far away sounding research project never will. LAF enables many donors to feel good about himself and in return it enables Lance to live a very privileged existence and maintain the delusion to himself that he is just a super duper guy.


To me, it's a scam, to you it's a great and noble enterprise. We can argue the point ad nauseum. Each of us has made up our minds.
 
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GDVSSN said:
If he was a bit more transparent about it, no-one here would care.

Yes, he should be like every other charity out there that pays its board members, and states the details on every billboard. Not

It is not hard

.org is a not for profit organisation
.com is a commercial organisation.

take your pick when you click the mouse, and try to separate your views on LA from his right to make a living.
 
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Eva Maria said:
The most obvious answer to your question is the .org and .com conflict. the .com leverages the Livestrong name to make money for Armstrong and his Spam king partner.

Still not seeing what pays regarding the .com effort. Please dig a little deeper with educating me. I am very impressionable and curious.
 
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ggusta said:
(Just imagine if your paycheck covered only your discretionary needs, but the fund paid all of your major expenses, house, clothing food, 1st class travel and entertainment, assistants. That's living LARGE and STRONG!)

Major motion pictures routinely show an operating loss. Even those mega-billion dollar movies often show a loss against expenses. I have no doubt a charity could easily abuse the system.

You make quite an assertion that the Livestrong organization does just this. Can you provide more detail and examples?