LOL! McQuack Calls Lemond "Arrogant"

[I Watch Cycling In July]

[RANT]

That w@nker infuriates me every time he opens his mouth!

After running the sport in a way that disproportionately emphasizes men's road racing, he want's to hide from road fans behind the skirts of BMX!

I wish MTB and BMX would flex their muscles and get rid of the disingenuous, devious, old git.

His knowledge about Africa or BMX is worthless without integrity.

[/RANT]

 

[BillytheKid]

Please post ANY Credible source that states Greg doped at ANY time in his career, times/places, doctors, etc. Not hearsay from an admitted doper, who tried passing blame on everyone. One CREDIBLE source please(teammate/coach/rider/etc), FACTUAL proof.

Did you read my post? I said I have no proof, but it is factual to say he was a contemorary of Fignon who, dying, admitted it. So I asked the question, was he really that much better than the rest generartion? Factual might be hard to come buy under current circumstances, but someone who chases his teammate down like that is trust worthy? To head the UCI?

Temmates. Oh joy!

 

[86TDFWinner]

Did you read my post? I said I have no proof, but it is factual to say he was a contemorary of Fignon who, dying, admitted it. So I asked the question, was he really that much better than the rest generartion? Factual might be hard to come buy under current circumstances, but someone who chases his teammate down like that is trust worthy? To head the UCI?

Temmates. Oh joy!

I did, and you seemed to insinuate/lump GL in as a "doper" simply because he was a "contemporary of Fignon". Why did it take you so long to respond, were you trying to dig up something to attempt to back up your insinuation?

I guess you gave me the usual answer to the "Greg doped too" statement: which is the crickets chirp response( as there is no proof he did). He did no such thing, or it would have been posted by now.

Besides, we've moved past the "Greg doped too" nonsense, as its been proven he has NOT.

Why do you find "joy" in what I said about former teammates coming forward on GL? please explain?

 

[BillytheKid]

Hh
I did, and you seemed to insinuate/lump GL in as a "doper" simply because he was a "contemporary of Fignon". Why did it take you so long to respond, were you trying to dig up something to attempt to bake up your insinuation?

I guess you gave me the usual answer to the "Greg doped too" statement: which is the crickets chirp response( as there is no proof he did). He did no such thing, or it would have been posted by now.


Why do you find "joy" in what I said about former teammates coming forward on GL? please explain?

I just drop in now and then to have a word, but the "joy" comment was not aimed at Greg's former teammates, but rather at his chase down of Jonathan Boyer in the final at Worlds. Seems like a "win at all costs" kinda statement about him. I had heard about it, but had not seen the youtube until a few months ago.

It was worse than I ever thought. That was just F3$% U!$$!

 

[BillytheKid]

The only person who thought Boyer had a prayer was Boyer. Bearing in mind that there was no US team at that time, and Lemond paid for his own participation, Lemond's actions were perfectly reasonable.

Sure. Like I said a 30% chance before the first Lemond effort up to the two chasers. That was the big one. Even if it was 10%, you still don't chase, you wait and follow the wheels of those who do. The thing is, in a group that big, no one knows for sure who is good, so no one throws in there effort until they can exploit someone else...so Boyer had a chance given some hesitation, Lemond saw that and future endorsements salery, fame... going up the road and took "reasonable" action.

How much racing did you say you've done?

 

[MarkvW]

Sure. Like I said a 30% chance before the first Lemond effort up to the two chasers. That was the big one. Even if it was 10%, you still don't chase, you wait and follow the wheels of those who do. The thing is, in a group that big, no one knows for sure who is good, so no one throws in there effort until they can exploit someone else...so Boyer had a chance given some hesitation, Lemond saw that and future endorsements salery, fame... going up the road and took "reasonable" action.

How much racing did you say you've done?

There was no way Boyer was going to win that race.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sure. Like I said a 30% chance before the first Lemond effort up to the two chasers. That was the big one. Even if it was 10%, you still don't chase, you wait and follow the wheels of those who do. The thing is, in a group that big, no one knows for sure who is good, so no one throws in there effort until they can exploit someone else...so Boyer had a chance given some hesitation, Lemond saw that and future endorsements salery, fame... going up the road and took "reasonable" action.

How much racing did you say you've done?

So in the biggest race of your season you would let someone go because he was a compatriot, not really a teammate since you had covered your own airfare for the "pro" world championships?
Greg was not, at this point (or any other really) a "sprinter", if he would have waited Sarroni would have still won with Greg 4th and Boyer 9th. It was the best finish in the pro worlds by an American to that point. That is the end of the story.
I don't think you have ever raced very much.

 

[86TDFWinner]

There was no way Boyer was going to win that race.

Spot on, thats what Billy doesnt understand, Boyer wasn't going to win, regardless. Lemond did what anyone else in his position would've done as well. I don't see how people can fault Greg for doing what anyone else would've done. Boyer's just butthurt he didn't win.

 

[86TDFWinner]

So in the biggest race of your season you would let someone go because he was a compatriot, not really a teammate since you had covered your own airfare for the "pro" world championships?
Greg was not, at this point (or any other really) a "sprinter", if he would have waited Sarroni would have still won with Greg 4th and Boyer 9th. It was the best finish in the pro worlds by an American to that point. That is the end of the story.
I don't think you have ever raced very much.

Lol, exactly right.

 

[sniper]

Please post ANY Credible source that states Greg doped at ANY time in his career, times/places, doctors, etc. Not hearsay from an admitted doper, who tried passing blame on everyone. One CREDIBLE source please(teammate/coach/rider/etc), FACTUAL proof.

There was a poster in here --forgot his name but will look for it-- who said he rode with Lemond in 1989 at ADR and who said all top riders of that team got PED lunch boxed and that he'd be surprised if Lemond wasn't getting any.
He sounded pretty credible (i.e. he probably really rode with Lemond in that year).
As much as I love Lemond, I think it is foolish to discount the possibility he was enhancing his performances with any sort of illegal drugs. You simply can't exclude the possibility.

 

[sniper]

here's the post:

I cannot speak for Greg, or others on ADR, but I can say that Van Mol certainly 'aided' riders that were willing to take the plunge into the murk of PEDs. In the lead up to the 1989 World Champs I was sent, via a soigneur, a collection of 'preparations' for the intensive training period... most of the products were innocent enough: injectable vitamins, minerals, glucose-phosphates; but there were one or two products that certainly contravened the FICP listing. These were unceremoniously dumped in a rubbish bin. Our program on ADR was split between 'the big-boys' (Lemond, Plankaert, Van Holen, Hoste, Kuum, Lammerts et al) and 'the also rans'... a great deal of this era's practices can be accessed via Joe Parkin's 'Dog in a Hat' book. Joe rode for ADR's 'second-team - HUMO, and has similar recollections to myself and a lot of the younger guys on the team. Whilst the younger guys were rarely witness to 'practices', they certainly occurred.

I for one would be devastated if it came to light that Greg was doping in 89... but such is my cynicism that it wouldn't surprise me either, knowing what I know of the team structure.

 

[86TDFWinner]

There was a poster in here --forgot his name but will look for it-- who said he rode with Lemond in 1989 at ADR and who said all top riders of that team got PED lunch boxed and that he'd be surprised if Lemond wasn't getting any.
He sounded pretty credible (i.e. he probably really rode with Lemond in that year).
As much as I love Lemond, I think it is foolish to discount the possibility he was enhancing his performances with any sort of illegal drugs. You simply can't exclude the possibility.

No disrespect, but it's been mentioned here MANY times that Wonderboy had a "bounty" of sorts for people with "info" on whether or not Greg doped, and it went NOWHERE(& we're talking ALOT of money), no hearsay, no bs rumors made up to cash in, nothing. What does that say to people questioning the subject? it says it most likely didnt happen(or surely it wouldve come out by now). Besides, that poster offers NOTHING in the evidence/proof dept stating 100% for sure Lemond doped, no times/dates/drs who administered it, nothing, it's basically his opinion(he even says so in the post).

Greg afaic, is the real deal, and clean. Hampsten/Bauer/Knickman/someone wouldve come out by now if Greg doped.

 

[sniper]

No disrespect, but it's been mentioned here MANY times that Wonderboy had a "bounty" of sorts for people with "info" on whether or not Greg doped, and it went NOWHERE(& we're talking ALOT of money), no hearsay, no bs rumors made up to cash in, nothing. What does that say to people questioning the subject? it says it most likely didnt happen(or surely it wouldve come out by now). Besides, that poster offers NOTHING in the evidence/proof dept stating 100% for sure Lemond doped, no times/dates/drs who administered it, nothing, it's basically his opinion(he even says so in the post).

Greg afaic, is the real deal, and clean. Hampsten/Bauer/Knickman/someone wouldve come out by now if Greg doped.

thanks for proving my point

You simply can't exclude the possibility.

 

[86TDFWinner]

thanks for proving my point

What "point" have I supposedly proven? there IS NO POSSIBILITY, he's NEVER doped, never ever......never ever(or follow me here): It wouldve come out by now, right? of course. Please tell me you're not this dense? if there were a "possibility" that he doped, it wouldve been leaked by now.

BUT, since there is no FACTUAL/CREDIBLE proof claiming otherwise,(& you have an obvious comprehension problem) then your "possibility" isnt possible, is it?(it's ok they know) that'd be a huge NO!

Afaict(means as far as I can tell) hes never doped and (wait for it........) neither can anyone else, IF they could, THEY WOULDVE POSTED IT, right? of course. Never comprehending that Wonderboy put out a bounty to anyone(including delusional fanboys such as yourself) to get proof Lemond doped, how'd that work out, explain please?

Thank you for outing yourself as one of the last Lance fanboys who just cant grasp that their fallen heros a a confirmed liar/cheater. So, they try the old, tired, "Lemond doped too" response, knowing full well he didnt do it, just to take some of the heat off their golden boy.


But yet, you claim you "like Greg"? You CLEARLY don't. (You've mastered the art of lying I see, must've gotten that from your man crush Wonderboy?)
That poster never gave any factual proof, not 1 rumore, not 1 " I saw him do it" did he? no.


So, with all that said, please explain how Ive supposedly proven a point, that wasnt a point to begin with?

 

[86TDFWinner]

So, I'll play along one last time, please post any "possibility" you've seemingly created/received, that he has doped, as you've alluded to? it has to be FACTUAL/CREDIBLE proof, by a governing body/reputable source, not your sisters, cousins, step uncle in laws, dogs, goldfishes word, FACTUAL CREDIBLE proof, with dates/times, who administered them to him/etc, do you have this "possible" info, or no? If so, please post it. If not, that proves there IS NO possibility.

Please post it here, so we can all see it, Can you do that or no?(any other response other than you posting any possible proof you may have, means you're trolling, there is no "possibility", you're fos & you're delusional). That basically means you'll have hung yourself.

 

[sniper]

...
BUT, since there is no FACTUAL/CREDIBLE proof claiming otherwise, then your "possibility" isnt possible.

... If so, please post it. If not, that proves there IS NO possibility.

an intriguing (though obviously erroneous) sense of epistemic possibility you have.
you're mixing it all up: facts, proof, possibility.
i suggest you read up on those terms and how they correlate, first, and then come back and tell me if there is or isn't a possibility greg doped.

edit: i've never said greg doped, not even by implication. just saying it's naive to say "I know for sure greg never doped". you simply can't know for sure. Hell, greg himself can't even know for sure.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sure. Like I said a 30% chance before the first Lemond effort up to the two chasers. That was the big one. Even if it was 10%, you still don't chase, you wait and follow the wheels of those who do. The thing is, in a group that big, no one knows for sure who is good, so no one throws in there effort until they can exploit someone else...so Boyer had a chance given some hesitation, Lemond saw that and future endorsements salery, fame... going up the road and took "reasonable" action.

How much racing did you say you've done?

Boyer, is that you?

Boyer was an ar@ehole first class, good he got chased down by LeMond. Nevertheless, LeMond was 21 years old on that day, really strange IF he made a tactical mistake!

Really good arguments I must say billyboyer.

 

[Benotti69]

Boyer, is that you?

Boyer was an ar@ehole first class, good he got chased down by LeMond. Nevertheless, LeMond was 21 years old on that day, really strange IF he made a tactical mistake!

Really good arguments I must say billyboyer.

You have a hammer in your hand and the nail has been firmly hit.

 

[86TDFWinner]

you're mixing it all up: facts, proof, possibility.

No no, "possibility" means there was/is a chance, since there's no proof, that negates any possibility, even one as minute as you claim.

i suggest you read up on those terms and how they correlate, first, and then come back and tell me if there is or isn't a possibility greg doped.

There ISNT. he didnt, or it wouldve come out by now, right?

edit: i've never said greg doped, not even by implication.

Really?{this is you}

As much as I love Lemond, I think it is foolish to discount the possibility he was enhancing his performances with any sort of illegal drugs. You simply can't exclude the possibility.

Ah, if there's no proof(wait for it.........) yeah, YOU CAN discount it, it didnt happen. Neither were there, and the one person who you claim was supposedly "there" couldnt either, right? then, going by the info provided, no "possibility" exists, AGAIN, please tell me your naivite isn't being confused with delusional thinking?

I'll ask again, please post any "possible" proof he "possibility" doped?

without that, your "possibility" is dead in the water, can you not see that?

Nice try. You can continue on with your "possible" theory, but I won't, since you cant post any said proof one way or another. That means you're full of you know what(because if you had even a small "possibility" that he did dope, you'd have posted it backing up your claims). May I suggest you go back through other threads and re-read them, Lemond isn't a doper, Wonderboy is. Certainly someone who knows what his VO2 max is{like Greg can}, and that of other riders, would know everything that was put in his body at that time, correct? of course. Stop with the conspiracy theories, and back up your talk with any "possibilities" you may have, please?

Any "possibility" of him doping, has been shot down by(drumroll please)......the lack of supporting evidence claiming otherwise(I guess you really are that dense). When you show me there's a "possibility" he doped, I then might actually discuss it with you, but you haven't, you've simply thrown out blanket assumptions(or "possibilities" with no proof to back them up) that he did.

Feel free to keep believing what you wish, everyone else here(who knows he didnt) will go on not paying attention to you.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I'll ask again, please post any "possible" proof he "possibility" doped?

There is always a possibility, even how small it is. But given the statements of riders, it is quite a fact Greg was clean. Only one passage in Fignon's book was worrying, regarding the 1989 Champs TT, where he claims he saw 'a different rider'. Could of course have been the adrenaline pumping through LeMonds vains.

 

[sniper]

..using up too much space..

it's very simple:

There is always a possibility, even how small it is.

see?

 

[sniper]

There is always a possibility, even how small it is. But given the statements of riders, it is quite a fact Greg was clean. Only one passage in Fignon's book was worrying, regarding the 1989 Champs TT, where he claims he saw 'a different rider'. Could of course have been the adrenaline pumping through LeMonds vains.

efasofina's statements also concern ADR 1989.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The group of "chosen" at PDM consisted Knetemann, Van der Poel, Theunisse and Rooks. Their fixed soigneur called Bertus Fok. The remainder were treated by Rudy Boy or another colleague. "There were young boys who said: I want a turn to Fok. Then I said yes boy, it does not work. "Evidence of shady practices has not driver X and if it has been mentioned, except by order of the team management.

Rudy Boy takes on fellow Breeding in protection. In those years it was only logical that the best bodies by the most honorable soigneur were groped. "That was the hierarchical cycling at that time it is. Not anymore, you know. "

A few times a driver has X in its PDM years thought his forces without his knowledge were rigged. "I drove uphill sometimes so hard that I thought this is true? It will have been paranoid, but you were not quite at ease. "

Suspicion that not only plays tricks on him. "I saw Greg LeMond sometimes rider from the hotel directly to see a supermarket. He throws his empty bottle and pour a bottle of mineral water. "

A year later, LeMond left. Just as Pedro Delgado, he PDM Win a Tour can bestow. They do both a year after they left the service. The frustration builds up.

Racer X seeks and finds a team that his health or observe. Rudy Boy goes into 1989 with team doctor Peter Jansen ("One of the best I have experienced") and the duo Rooks-Theunisse to Post. But Erik Breukink expected PDM again to compete for a Victory Tour.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698...nderbaarlijke-jaren-van-wielerploeg-PDM.dhtml

Now, why would LeMond do this?

At TDFwinner1986: Sniper is one of the good guys here, sometimes a little bit too paranoid, but nevertheless

Rider X was a big talent in Holland, be sure of that, he went to no other than Paul Kochli.

 

[sniper]

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698...nderbaarlijke-jaren-van-wielerploeg-PDM.dhtml

Now, why would LeMond do this?

At TDFwinner1986: Sniper is one of the good guys here, sometimes a little bit too paranoid, but nevertheless

Rider X was a big talent in Holland, be sure of that, he went to no other than Paul Kochli.

compelling statement indeed.
and rest assured: there isn't any doubt in my mind about Lemond. Insider statements like these, but also his character (afaic-judge), his genuine outrage regarding Lance and UCI and his committment to CCN taken together tells me all I need to know.

As you've spotted already, the dispute with TDFwinner1986 is of a linguistic/logical nature: it simply cannot be proven that Lemond never doped.
And as your link also nicely shows: riders got doped even without knowing (comparable to what happens in soccer), so it's beyond me how TDFwinner1986 thinks he is able to vouch for Lemond.

That said: the odds of Lemond having raced clean are favorable.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Back to the topic, that interview with Pat was comedy gold! Serious laughs there.

Agree with Doc. Greg only agreed to be considered for interim president, and said Pat should resign. I don't recall him lobbying to take over the helm at all, let alone on a permanent basis.

I wouldn't believe too much of what Boyer has to complain about, considering his own dark past, and what happened to Greg in his youth.

Greg was friends with Fignon up until the day Laurent passed away. Greg even refers to Hinault with great reverence in recent times, not bitterness. So to say Greg has a lot of enemies seems quite off. While I've never met the man, I know for a fact he lives in a nice house in Minnesota and isn't struggling at all. Also considering he donated $200k to ADHD and child abuse causes recently also says something.

If you don't like the guy, for whatever the reason, fine. But to question his intentions and principles regarding cycling is just trolling.