Teams & Riders Lotto Dstny Cycling Team

[Samamba]

Lotto will survive if they have to be a PCT Tour - They'll still be able to ride one or two GT's, have their choice of WT races and of course the Classics are a given.

What Logic is saying is that you need riders in your team to survive. They basically need to hope that De Lie, Vermeersch and Ewan want to stay, even if they're PCT. If I was them I would just renegotiate their contract and put in a clause that makes it possible for them to leave if they ever lose guaranteed wildcards (so if Lotto doesn't get top 2 one year).

And even if those guy stays, they have so many riders out of contract who will probably choose for another team. Riders like Van Gils, Moniquet, Cras, Wellens etc. If everyone stays, yes ofcourse they don't really have a problem, but that won't be the case. Then there's new riders, the only reason a good rider would sign for a PCT team is if they offer a ton of money. Lotto-DSTNY will have a decent budget, but it's not like they're rich and can offer 2MIL contracts to everyone.

 

[yaco]

What Logic is saying is that you need riders in your team to survive. They basically need to hope that De Lie, Vermeersch and Ewan want to stay, even if they're PCT. If I was them I would just renegotiate their contract and put in a clause that makes it possible for them to leave if they ever lose guaranteed wildcards (so if Lotto doesn't get top 2 one year).

And even if those guy stays, they have so many riders out of contract who will probably choose for another team. Riders like Van Gils, Moniquet, Cras, Wellens etc. If everyone stays, yes ofcourse they don't really have a problem, but that won't be the case. Then there's new riders, the only reason a good rider would sign for a PCT team is if they offer a ton of money. Lotto-DSTNY will have a decent budget, but it's not like they're rich and can offer 2MIL contracts to everyone.

But if the budget is similar which is a possibility then not many riders will leave - It's not as if the riders will have a poor calendar - Lotto is the Belgian lottery so that funding should be secure, while you hope the new sponsor will continue.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But if the budget is similar which is a possibility then not many riders will leave - It's not as if the riders will have a poor calendar - Lotto is the Belgian lottery so that funding should be secure, while you hope the new sponsor will continue.

It doesn't really matter how many riders will leave, but which riders will leave. Wellens is already leaving and with contracts of De Lie and Ewan in the garbage bin they could be out of their most prolific riders.

 

[yaco]

It doesn't really matter how many riders will leave, but which riders will leave. Wellens is already leaving and with contracts of De Lie and Ewan in the garbage bin they could be out of their most prolific riders.

Ewan has failed to win a stage in his last 2 GT's - This is a worry when you build most of your team around one rider which must have impacted on their acquisition of UCI points - It appears that Wellens is leaving whether Lotto is in the WT - Like I previously posted if the calendar is fine then riders will stay.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ewan has failed to win a stage in his last 2 GT's - This is a worry when you build most of your team around one rider which must have impacted on their acquisition of UCI - It appears that Wellens is leaving whether Lotto is in the WT - Like I previously posted if the calendar is fine then riders will stay.

They are Lotto, they do stupid sht. It's in their nature, they can't help it. They sent a genuine podium contender to the TDF with 1 guy in support because they needed to support Greipel in the sprint, who would more often than not, finish 2nd or 3rd. They gave a guy like Degenkolb an insane contract for twiddling his thumbs. They didn't have their dev squad eligible to ride pro races when they knew they needed all the riders/help they could get...

Ewan not getting points is an issue and maybe getting rid of him wouldn't be a bad thing at this point but the fact remains that they will remain without prolific teamleaders. De Lie will have teams standing in line, Wellens is leaving regardless. The only other guy who scored some points is end of contract (Van Gils). So the point stands, it's not really a matter of many riders leaving. Who cares if Frison or Verschaeve will stay? They would at least need De Lie, Vermeersch and Van Moer to stay and ALL of them would need to step up/improve considerably if they would want to stay relevant in WT races. With the guys already mentioned (potentially or definitely) leaving, they need to attract new riders, and not just pack fodder. They need guys who could go to a WT team as well, so the question is which one of those guys would consider going to Lotto, at PCT level.

I think if they don't make the WT cut, they might best focus on training young guys like Uno-X has been doing and build their way up again like that. That way you remain a viable alternative for young riders and their U23 team would not necessarily get drained. That way they can hope to bring the next De Lie or the next Van Wilder into pro cycling and maybe claw their way back that way. The problem is that there are already Belgian teams doing exactly that (Sport Vlaanderen, Wallonie Bruxelles).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Happy for Vermeersch. His classics campaign was far from ideal to put it mildly. Another 155 points (at least) in the pocket for the team, De Lie also grabbed some points.

I see the team is listed for Norway on PCS all of a sudden (that wasn't the case a few weeks ago iirc), but no riders have been listed yet. If they bring the right riders, they could score quite some points there as well. Evenepoel is likely to take top spot, going by the current line-up, but the rest of the top 10 spots are up for grabs. Hart is going, but he might just use this as a training ride and not bother too much with GC after having been sick. Hayter unlikely to survive stage 3. Then there are guys like Vine, Uijtdebroeks, Johannessen, CF Hagen, Brenner...

So with Cras, Van Gils, Kron, Holmes... they'd have some options. But Cras and Van Gils are listed for Circuit de Wallonie instead. So i have no idea if the team is actually going to Norway, and if indeed they are, whether they have riders left that could be of use here. I assume it's a brainfart on the part of PCS, as the race isn't listed on their website: https://www.lottosoudal.be/nl/wedstrijdkalender/worldteam/2022/05

 

[laarsland]

As far as young prospects go, Lennert van Eetvelt and especially Alec Segaert look like WT-material - with the latter perhaps afforded the chance to ride another season at U23-level before turning pro in 2024 or fall of 2023.

 

[Samamba]

As far as young prospects go, Lennert van Eetvelt and especially Alec Segaert look like WT-material - with the latter perhaps afforded the chance to ride another season at U23-level before turning pro in 2024 or fall of 2023.

Just no way Segaert signs for Lotto. Even if Lotto was not relegating, it wouldn't be a good choice for someone who's that talented at TT'ing. My guess is QS. Probably the first Delevopment Team rider that I would understand if he signs for another team.

Van Eetvelt is pretty good tho, he is something LTS misses. Someone who climbs well (not a pure climber tho) but can race. He can TT, isn't scared of rain, wind, attacking, etc. Kind of unlucky this year that Gregoire is a the new freak of nature or he would've won some big races.

Happy for Vermeersch. His classics campaign was far from ideal to put it mildly. Another 155 points (at least) in the pocket for the team, De Lie also grabbed some points.

I see the team is listed for Norway on PCS all of a sudden (that wasn't the case a few weeks ago iirc), but no riders have been listed yet. If they bring the right riders, they could score quite some points there as well. Evenepoel is likely to take top spot, going by the current line-up, but the rest of the top 10 spots are up for grabs. Hart is going, but he might just use this as a training ride and not bother too much with GC after having been sick. Hayter unlikely to survive stage 3. Then there are guys like Vine, Uijtdebroeks, Johannessen, CF Hagen, Brenner...

So with Cras, Van Gils, Kron, Holmes... they'd have some options. But Cras and Van Gils are listed for Circuit de Wallonie instead. So i have no idea if the team is actually going to Norway, and if indeed they are, whether they have riders left that could be of use here. I assume it's a brainfart on the part of PCS, as the race isn't listed on their website: https://www.lottosoudal.be/nl/wedstrijdkalender/worldteam/2022/05

No Norway I think. No idea why they're on PCS. Norway is probably the only stage race (in May/June) I think would've been possible to ride without completely burning out their team. Definitely with the competition there I agree it's a missed opportunity. But when looking at the team roster and seeing the amount of injuries they have, literally the whole team would've been riding this week and there's some guys that need rest so I guess I understand.

EDIT: actually, it was borderline impossible to ride a tripple schedule this week with the ridiculous amount of non fit guys in the team. It was Norway or Wallonie + Kint and I guess they chose for the latter. Bit annoying that they almost can't ride a triple schedule with the amount of injured riders.

 

[laarsland]

Just no way Segaert signs for Lotto. Even if Lotto was not relegating, it wouldn't be a good choice for someone who's that talented at TT'ing. My guess is QS. Probably the first Delevopment Team rider that I would understand if he signs for another team.

Times have/are changing, but Segaert looks like van Moer when he was coming through as a schorching TT talent with a taste of cobbles back in the day. I guess some of it is just a general sentiment that the team running a development squad should have dibs on those riders given they match any competing offer.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Times have/are changing, but Segaert looks like van Moer when he was coming through as a schorching TT talent with a taste of cobbles back in the day. I guess some of it is just a general sentiment that the team running a development squad should have dibs on those riders given they match any competing offer.

What if one of those riders really dislikes the team's way of doing things, or the type of races the team puts on the calendar, or management, or trainers, or teammates, or finds it lacking support... He should be forced to stay?

In football there is something like a 'development compensation' when young players leave even when they are not under contract. The team developing the player is entitled to a minimum fee.

 

[laarsland]

Agree that there are some nuances that would need ironing out. Finding some mechanism which gives the trade teams certainty they'll either be able to sign the riders from their development squads or get a compensation which makes it worthwhile to persist would be great.

 

[Netserk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1528640107074531330

View: https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1528640107074531330


Less than halfway through the season they have reduced the gap to EF from 3004.32 points to 768.32 points. I don't think the team will be relegated.

 

[Samamba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1528640107074531330

View: https://twitter.com/raulbanqueri/status/1528640107074531330


Less than halfway through the season they have reduced the gap to EF from 3004.32 points to 768.32 points. I don't think the team will be relegated.

Like I've said for a while now. Catching EF is the only hope as they're the only team that doesn't seem to alter their schedule to get "easy" points. They will probably be able to get a good amount of points this week in Norway, but in June it's basically only stage races again. They usually get a lot of points in the last months of the season tho so LTS has to have a really good 2nd part of the season if they want to overtake EF and keep them behind. It's possible if they basically keep doing what they're doing right now + good perfomances from Ewan and Wellens primarily in WT races and at the same EF doesn't score big the upcoming months (cause let's be honest they have te potential).

 

[skippo12]

Yates falling out of the GC could really hurt BikeExchange. Even with his two stage wins they haven´t gained any ground on Lotto. DeGendt won a stage and Lotto had a few additional stage results that should count.

 

[skippo12]

Like I've said for a while now. Catching EF is the only hope as they're the only team that doesn't seem to alter their schedule to get "easy" points. They will probably be able to get a good amount of points this week in Norway, but in June it's basically only stage races again. They usually get a lot of points in the last months of the season tho so LTS has to have a really good 2nd part of the season if they want to overtake EF and keep them behind. It's possible if they basically keep doing what they're doing right now + good perfomances from Ewan and Wellens primarily in WT races and at the same EF doesn't score big the upcoming months (cause let's be honest they have te potential).

Lotto needs to nail the late summer/autumn classics. Especially Ewan. Stage win in the Tour or Vuelta isn´t going to make a difference in the big picture. Good results in London and Hamburg matter.

 

[tobydawq]

I don't understand why you have a relegation system at all - Cycling is not the most reliable of sports with sponsors coming and going and teams coming or going - You have enough attrition within the sport to which sees a turnover in the WP peleton - Will add that coming what is in effect 19th or 20th is not a death knell for a team - My understanding is the 19th team will still receive invites to GT's and WT races, while the 20th team will receive similar benefits. It may also mean that you end the hegemony of Spanish/Italian and French PCT teams gaining places in GTs.

Then again, we don't see teams folding or new teams coming nearly as often as we used to do:

WorldTeams that folded:
2021: Qhubeka
2020: CCC
2019: Katusha
2018: BMC (but CCC kind of merged with them)
2017: None
2016: Tinkoff and IAM
2015: None
2014: Cannondale merged with Garmin

So on average one team per year which of course is a bit too volatile for such a system, I would agree. But most current WorldTeams have now been in the peloton for more than a decade with Bahrain and Israel as the only exceptions (if you count UAE as a continuation of Lampre), so it's not like it's 50-50 whether a given team makes it to next season (or even remotely close to that).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well i hope they don't get relegated, even though i'm not sure there need to be 4 Belgian WT teams. In fact, i'm quite sure there is a much bigger need for a new Italian WT team for instance. But that's a different discussion.

Agreed that two TDF / Vuelta stages isn't going to be what drags them across.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Shame Gilbert missed out on the win.
However, another 120 points today.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Shame Gilbert missed out on the win.
However, another 120 points today.

Yeah, good day regardless. Chaves also missing out in Norway. Best they (EF) can hope for now is maybe 30-40 points for GC.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Yeah, good day regardless. Chaves also missing out in Norway. Best they (EF) can hope for now is maybe 30-40 points for GC.

Yeah and by the end of Norway Lotto will have probably picked up another 80 in the GP Marcel Kint.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Well i hope they don't get relegated, even though i'm not sure there need to be 4 Belgian WT teams.

Yeah, your post made me notice that there could be four Belgian WT teams, soon.

Imagine the impossible happens, and Lotto will have to go down to PCT level. Unbelieveable!…

Alpecin is newest and super good (MVDP spirit), Intermarche is rather new and better than ever (Girmay, Kristoff - but the whole team looks so unbelievably strong in 2022).

Mapei and Lotto are the two classic teams, with tradition. Whereas Mapei is still #1 of the world, Lotto fears to step down to PCT. I still can‘t believe that.

 

[Samamba]

Yeah and by the end of Norway Lotto will have probably picked up another 80 in the GP Marcel Kint.

Carthy will get a good amount of points from the Giro at the end of the week tho. But this week definitelu could've been way worse for LTS if EF did better in Norway. If they get some points in kint they limit the damage and the upcoming weeks EF will only be active in 3 stage races while LTS does a lot of one day races. Also positive that they probably extend their lead to Israel this week.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Carthy will get a good amount of points from the Giro at the end of the week tho. But this week definitelu could've been way worse for LTS if EF did better in Norway. If they get some points in kint they limit the damage and the upcoming weeks EF will only be active in 3 stage races while LTS does a lot of one day races. Also positive that they probably extend their lead to Israel this week.

Carthy at best can finish 9th in GC, which would mean 180 points. Add to that 2x 12 points he gathered in stages, that would mean 204 points for Carthy. Not exactly earth shattering for a 3 week race with your best riders. For reference, Jay Vine will bring home 160 points from Norway (most likely), a 1 week race.

 

[Samamba]

Carthy at best can finish 9th in GC, which would mean 180 points. Add to that 2x 12 points he gathered in stages, that would mean 204 points for Carthy. Not exactly earth shattering for a 3 week race with your best riders. For reference, Jay Vine will bring home 160 points from Norway (most likely), a 1 week race.

It is not, but add the few points Chavez will get from Norway and it would likely still be more than LTS will get out of this week (or they need to win Kint). Hence limiting the damage, but like I said, it could've been way worse. Next week will be very important for LTS with Heistse Pijl, Brussel and Limburg. They need to come significantly closer to EF if they want to have a chance. Imo they need to catch and overtake them asap as EF is known as a team that can score big in the last few months of the season.

 

[search]

according to his agent, Ewan is likely to stay with Lotto even in case of a relegation

Caleb Ewan unlikely to leave Lotto-Soudal even if team is relegated from WorldTour

Aussie sprinter not looking to change if team loses elite status, says agent.

www.velonews.com