Mara Abbott in Pink!!!!! (Hey Guys)!

[BBRoberts]

Mara Abbott won stage 8 and is in Pink!! This is the historic climbers edition and stage 8 was a hard one. They climbed 5000 feet right from the gun, and then much more on three more climbs. Mara Abbott and Emma Pooley, the two greatest climbers in the world for women went free alone at 50km, and then Mara soloed the last 3km to the finish! I know everyone is watching the TDF, but this is the biggest race in the world for women coming ironically at the same time as the TDF. However, I think it's going to a fascinating stage tomorrow.

Emma and Mara are likely to go one on one, tooth and nail up the Stelvio. It's never been climbed before for the women and it's also I believe perhaps the single hardest stage in the history of the Giro. I think guys who don't normally pay the women much attention might be somewhat interested in this. The idea was to raise the pro women to a new level of professionalism, and they race clean, unlike the current state of men's cycling.

I think that's worthy of some admiration, plus they get paid so little for their hard work. Personally I just wish CN and Velonews spent more resources on this race, which it appears they don't spend a single penny on it. They get all their photos 2nd hand from CJ. It's a shame that none of 3 top British sites cover this race, but then Velonews doesn't do much either. However, there is good videos and photos coming from a lot of people who are doing it out of their own pocket for the fans. Rather then CN delete this post, they should come here and address the unfairness of not for once covering such an historic event like this for the women. The market value should be higher for this event, so I don’t understand their complete indifference to this race.

Photos from Manel Lacambra
http://tweetphoto.com/31636736
http://tweetphoto.com/31651579
http://tweetphoto.com/31651250
http://tweetphoto.com/31650955
http://tweetphoto.com/31648258

 

[jaylew]

Firstly, the timing of the race certainly doesn't do it any favors, does it?

Secondly, women cyclists have been caught doping as well.

Thirdly, yes, I would probably watch if it given the opportunity.

 

[BBRoberts]

Actually it does

The timing is catch 22. Actually it does, since the most cycling fans worldwide are most active and their numbers the greatest during the TDF. That means all forums everywhere have a big increase in the number of people chatting about the TDF. In those numbers, you should also have more people willing to take in the women's giro which works perfectly to give people something to do while they are waiting for the boring flat stages of the TDF to finish, so the timing is good and bad. However at another time slot, perhaps it might fair worse. It's akin to layering women's races with mens events, where they share the same fanbase. Better overall numbers should increase interest, but media in all forms is woefully lacking for couch potatoes, except the TDF.

Secondly I can count on one hand how many women have been caught for EPO. With the men, I can't count, wouldn't even try. With the women, It's only been Genevieve Jeanson, Maribel Moreno and Svetlana Bubnenkova. There was some nonsense over supplements, like Marta, Falivia and Amber, but those were also stupid mistakes, not intentional cause their is very little to be gained from doping unlike the men where millions are on the line in the top tier riders.

Thirdly, you can watch videos. All the stages are on video at Youtube. I just find CN lack of coverage to directly effect the spinoff of lack of interest here. It's the biggest women's stage race in the world that comes once a year, and they won't even spend a single penny on it. How pathetic is that?

 

[Benotti69]

Riccardo Ricco's (ex)girlfriend and mother (Rossi) of his baby had a positve A sample for cera, but sample b was negative?????

who runs women's cycling, be sure that there are PEDs being used. Hopefully not as much and that Cervelo are clean and winning clean

 

[Thee_chisa]

so, what happens now, can emma ride for herself?

 

[Skip Madness]

Personally I think the timing is good. The Giro highlights in Italy usually run off the back of the Tour de France coverage, so it's a good chance to draw in viewers.

It should be Abbott's for the taking tomorrow, but with Arndt at 0'19", Guderzo at 1'05" and Häusler at 1'41" she mustn't let the pressure get to her. On pure climbing ability she takes all three of them (and everyone else), especially on a climb like the Stelvio, but it's a pressure stage for her tomorrow like she won't have faced before. She's also got to be alert to early attacks on the Eira and Foscagno. I think she'll make it though, she deserves it on her form over the past year.

As for drugs positives, OK I can't think of many EPO positives, but Zinaida Stahurskaia tested positive for everything else under the Sun, and Fabiana Luperini had issues with nandrolone (debatable) and blood values (less debatable), as did Rosalisa Lapomarda. I'm also not particularly charitable to Marta Bastianelli.

As for Pooley, well she can ride for herself and go for the stage win, which may be a possibility because Abbott, Arndt and Guderzo won't be worried about losing a little bit of time to her, but Häusler still has an outside chance if the race catches up with Abbott tomorrow (not likely in my opinion) and Pooley should stay by her side for a while at least.

 

[BBRoberts]

Mara should win hands down

Zinaida Stahurskaia was caught dealing steroids, not a good role model, but she paid with her life for the love of this sport, and that is commendable. Luperini was a fluke positive, she doesn't, never has doped! She was always the real deal. I know them, their family and friends. Marta was careless as was Flavia, but they never intended to break the rules. If it's legal within the rules then it's not cheating.

Emma has no chains attached I don't think unless Cervelo is still thinking she should try to nurse Hausler up the Stelvio. I don't think that will happen. I am pretty sure we will see Mara and Emma in a knock down drag out on the Stelvio, let's hope so, and I am positive they know that is what the fans want. Fans want to know who the best climber is, and this mountain should prove that. Wait and see, as it's clearly the most exciting stage I can ever remember in the history of women's cycling as I have been following it a very long time. The problem with past era, you rarely had if ever, two pure climbers go at it in a long historic climb like this, and it's noted this is the longest climb in the history of the women's stage racing. Pretty cool stuff!!

 

[laura.weislo]

I think that's worthy of some admiration, plus they get paid so little for their hard work. Personally I just wish CN and Velonews spent more resources on this race, which it appears they don't spend a single penny on it. They get all their photos 2nd hand from CJ. ... Rather then CN delete this post, they should come here and address the unfairness of not for once covering such an historic event like this for the women. The market value should be higher for this event, so I don’t understand their complete indifference to this race.

First of all, we do pay CJ for her photos. Second of all, why would we delete your post? Third - unfairness or not, the Giro Donne is a great race, and as someone who runs a women's team I understand fully how hard it is to get sponsors/attention etc. but the fact of the matter is, the number of views the entire race section has gotten since last Friday all told couldn't even come close to justifying paying to send someone there.

We've sent a correspondent there in the past and I thought it was great, but it's the chicken/egg problem. In an economy that's down and costs are under tight controls, it's hard to justify the extra expense of having someone on site to write a few hundred extra words.

We bring you the full results, we try to give reports with the information we can find, and we present you with the photos that we have sourced. It's more than most sites do.

 

[Skip Madness]

Zinaida Stahurskaia was caught dealing steroids, not a good role model, but she paid with her life for the love of this sport, and that is commendable.

Dying in a car accident isn't commendable, it's just a horrible tragic accident. There was nothing commendable about Stahurskaia's career, she doped and supported doping throughout it. No-one would have wished for the terrible accident that happened to her, but that doesn't mean she should be seen with rose-tinted spectacles.

Luperini was a fluke positive, she doesn't, never has doped!

It wasn't just the "fluke" positive (which I accept wasn't cast-iron as nandrolone positives were known to be coming from tainted supplements at the time, and which was eventually overturned on that basis). She was also excluded before the 2002 Giro for her blood values at the Giro del Trentino. That's not regarded as a positive test, but it's strongly indicative of doping, and was the same reason Lapomarda was thrown out of the previous edition of the race.

Marta was careless as was Flavia, but they never intended to break the rules. If it's legal within the rules then it's not cheating.

Neither was legal within the rules. I have some sympathy with Oliveira, although ultimately it was still her responsibility for what went into her body. Bastianelli may have been careless or she may have been deliberate. They always say they've been careless, but then they would wouldn't they?

 

[theyoungest]

I didn't see any posts about this race when Marianne Vos or Ina-Yoko Teutenberg were in pink, so I reckon this post is motivated more by chauvinism than by an interest in furthering female cycling.

 

[BBRoberts]

PC

Yeah, yeah, you got a gig recently, I saw that, but I'm not convinced you understand fully. What you pay CJ for her photos is probably less then I spend eating out, but hey hey, ok, you are spending a few pennies then! Oh big whoop! How much are you spending total on resources for the TDF? It would nice to know how much money is being spent on the biggest womens race compared to the biggest mens race, considering also they are run at the same time.

You can't justify sending someone there? Shame, shame, the women are just not worth it according to CN stats because the numbers tell you that the market value of that race won't increase revenue or viewership enough for CN to justify sending someone there. Well, let me enlighten you. Sending someone to cover the Giro would not break the bank at CN, and I am embarrassed to hear you say the pro women are not worth someone writing a few extra hundred words since I could do that in my sleep.

Women's cycling can't get off the merry go round they are stuck on because big media won't give them a slice of the pie for starters. Why not give them a slice and let the fans decide, instead of you deciding for them. The steady diet you provide for men's racing is all fans here get and probably all they will ever get until you decide to break the deadlock.

I mean for crying out loud, it's not ALL that expensive to send someone to the Giro!! The initial front end investment is minimum considering it's only once a year. Don’t try to fool me cause I’ve been on the inside and I know better. I know they will put you staff up with free lodging and you can even get free meals. They always provide these to the official press photographers. I know lots of people who have worked these races, so be careful what kind of bull you throw at me.

Heck, I could afford to do that! You should at least cover the biggest women’s race every year in a professional capacity out of just plain respect for the women’s side of the sport, otherwise what you are really saying is they aren’t worth a nickel. The fact that you got a gig with a women's team and even speak in this mindset is insulting. You should support their cause instead of dismissing it, but that's your choice. I’ve seen the same thing in many of these current positions at various cycling organizations. Women in a position to make a difference are afraid of biting the hand that feeds them. Just bite lightly, that's all.

 

[BBRoberts]

Skipper

Dying in a car accident isn't commendable, it's just a horrible tragic accident. There was nothing commendable about Stahurskaia's career, she doped and supported doping throughout it. No-one would have wished for the terrible accident that happened to her, but that doesn't mean she should be seen with rose-tinted spectacles.

It wasn't just the "fluke" positive (which I accept wasn't cast-iron as nandrolone positives were known to be coming from tainted supplements at the time, and which was eventually overturned on that basis). She was also excluded before the 2002 Giro for her blood values at the Giro del Trentino. That's not regarded as a positive test, but it's strongly indicative of doping, and was the same reason Lapomarda was thrown out of the previous edition of the race.

Neither was legal within the rules. I have some sympathy with Oliveira, although ultimately it was still her responsibility for what went into her body. Bastianelli may have been careless or she may have been deliberate. They always say they've been careless, but then they would wouldn't they?

You are misreading what I said, but let me clarify. I never said dying in a car wreck is commendable, that's silly. What I am saying is that she tried to comeback and race clean, and that's hard to do when you are marked as a deadbeat. It's commendable that she stuck with it, and indeed paid the highest price as a professional cycling while out training. She paid with her life doing what she loved, and she wasn’t doping at the time she died. I think you could cut her a little slack, we usually do when someone dies who was once a great rider. This was a tragic death, as bad as gets for any pro cyclist. For crying out loud, it’s only sport and entertainment, she didn’t deserve to die like that!

She could of quit, and just led a quite happy normal life having nothing to do with bike racing. You are incorrect, she did not dope throughout her career. Stahurskaia was like a daughter to Fanini and he knew her well. She didn't start doping until later in her career, that's a fact. For crying out loud, she was in the 1989 Women's Tour De France, so her career goes back much further then you think. As for Luperini, I am telling you, she did not, never did dope. I know their family, but I have read every bit of all the nandrolone reports.

What Marta and Flavia did just seems like they didn't do their homework, and left it to people they trusted. Bad idea, unless it's your parents. Hard to blame your parents, but some people do I guess. Ultimately it's your career, and if in doubt, don't take that crap!

 

[Deagol]

The (men’s) Tour of Austria also seems to get overshadowed quite a bit by the TDF, so the timing may still be pretty bad for getting exposure for this race (?)

 

[BBRoberts]

Vos, Tut

I didn't see any posts about this race when Marianne Vos or Ina-Yoko Teutenberg were in pink, so I reckon this post is motivated more by chauvinism than by an interest in furthering female cycling.

We already did a Giro thread with 4 or 5 pages but it died. Also we did the first 6 stages of the Giro on another forum. Believe me, we talked about it already. That part is over, this is a new thead cause people usually don't like to dig through old ones.

Funny how you call them female though like the Vet calls a cat or dog.

 

[Skip Madness]

I think you could cut her a little slack, we usually do when someone dies who was once a great rider. This was a tragic death, as bad as gets for any pro cyclist. For crying out loud, it’s only sport and entertainment, she didn’t deserve to die like that!

I already stated in the most explicit terms that her death was a terrible tragedy. But I don't regard her as a great rider, she doped and doped and doped again.

She could of quit, and just led a quite happy normal life having nothing to do with bike racing.

She should have.

You are incorrect, she did not dope throughout her career. Stahurskaia was like a daughter to Fanini and he knew her well. She didn't start doping until later in her career, that's a fact.

That's not a fact at all, it's what you think. I think - based on at least four positive tests and her involvement in distributing drugs - that it's quite probable she doped from start to finish. I don't know it for a fact, but there is ample evidence against her to put a question mark over all of her professional achievements.

As for Luperini, I am telling you, she did not, never did dope. I know their family, but I have read every bit of all the nandrolone reports.

As I said, even if you dismiss the nandrolone test she still returned "unsafe" blood values the following year at the Giro del Trentino, which although not regarded as a positive test is indicative of PED use.

 

[Deagol]

....... Sending someone to cover the Giro would not break the bank at CN, and I am embarrassed to hear you say the pro women are not worth someone writing a few extra hundred words since I could do that in my sleep.

Women's cycling can't get off the merry go round they are stuck on because big media won't give them a slice of the pie for starters. Why not give them a slice and let the fans decide, instead of you deciding for them. The steady diet you provide for men's racing is all fans here get and probably all they will ever get until you decide to break the deadlock.

I mean for crying out loud, it's not ALL that expensive to send someone to the Giro!! The initial front end investment is minimum considering it's only once a year. Don’t try to fool me cause I’ve been on the inside and I know better. I know they will put you staff up with free lodging and you can even get free meals. They always provide these to the official press photographers. I know lots of people who have worked these races, so be careful what kind of bull you throw at me. .......

That sounds like an awesome opportunity for a “working vacation” to me. I’m no journalist, but if I were, I would jump at an opportunity like this..
Seems like there should be a way to increase exposure through bloggers or some type of alternative media ?

 

[laura.weislo]

Yeah, yeah, you got a gig recently,

"Got a gig"? I have been running a women's team for the past 8 years scraping by, fighting for sponsorship, pinching pennies and dipping into my own pocket so that riders could have a chance to be supported in this sport. I've never been paid to do it, I just did it out of my love for the sport.

I'm not happy about how little attention women's cycling gets either, but like I said, we're doing what we can at the moment, and like I said before, we do more than most cycling news outlets. There are more costs associated with covering a race than just hotels, and it's also an issue of human resources, too. Whether you like it or not, the Tour is a big deal and commands the majority of our resources. I'm not justifying the inequity, just stating the facts.

I certainly hope that we can send correspondents to women's races in Europe in the future - the way we do with the races in the USA. I'll certainly pass your vitriolic message along to the appropriate decision makers to try and effect a change. Until then, since you're so passionate about it and seem to have extra dough, maybe you can offer to sponsor our coverage of the Giro Donne personally next year so that we can send someone to cover it. I'll put you in touch with our ads folks.

 

[BBRoberts]

Zina

I already stated in the most explicit terms that her death was a terrible tragedy. But I don't regard her as a great rider, she doped and doped and doped again.

She should have.

That's not a fact at all, it's what you think. I think - based on at least four positive tests and her involvement in distributing drugs - that it's quite probable she doped from start to finish. I don't know it for a fact, but there is ample evidence against her to put a question mark over all of her professional achievements.

As I said, even if you dismiss the nandrolone test she still returned "unsafe" blood values the following year at the Giro del Trentino, which although not regarded as a positive test is indicative of PED use.

Zina didn't dope all through her career, you can ask Fanini about that. He was like a father to her. She didn't start doping until the late 90's. On Luperini, she never used drugs, that's a fact.

By all means, believe what you want.

 

[BBRoberts]

Vacation time

That sounds like an awesome opportunity for a “working vacation” to me. I’m no journalist, but if I were, I would jump at an opportunity like this..
Seems like there should be a way to increase exposure through bloggers or some type of alternative media ?

Right, like go to Mexico to see the dentist saving tons of money on dental work and also vacation there by the ocean for several weeks while waiting for the lab work, etc. Good idea! Cyclists who go to Europe for vaction could time it close to these races, and cover the races for fun. Just one problem. It's not a vacation but lots of work. Not a easy job at all, I know. Might work for someone younger but not the older generation.

 

[BBRoberts]

Pedal C.

"Got a gig"? I have been running a women's team for the past 8 years scraping by, fighting for sponsorship, pinching pennies and dipping into my own pocket so that riders could have a chance to be supported in this sport. I've never been paid to do it, I just did it out of my love for the sport.

I'm not happy about how little attention women's cycling gets either, but like I said, we're doing what we can at the moment, and like I said before, we do more than most cycling news outlets. There are more costs associated with covering a race than just hotels, and it's also an issue of human resources, too. Whether you like it or not, the Tour is a big deal and commands the majority of our resources. I'm not justifying the inequity, just stating the facts.

I certainly hope that we can send correspondents to women's races in Europe in the future - the way we do with the races in the USA. I'll certainly pass your vitriolic message along to the appropriate decision makers to try and effect a change. Until then, since you're so passionate about it and seem to have extra dough, maybe you can offer to sponsor our coverage of the Giro Donne personally next year so that we can send someone to cover it. I'll put you in touch with our ads folks.

Oh, my, my, what pro team have you been running for 8 years now?

The reason you don't get many hits on those pages is because there is little or no content most of the time. If you had good content on those pages, viewership would increase. Many times you don't even provide a race report, just some results. Getting photos 2nd hand from CJ isn't first rate journalism coupled with professional photography or video work in the field. That's hodge podge journalism. If you want to provide solid maps and pre race profiles coupled with solid race reports and great photo work from the field, I can assure you that this traffic would increase substantially.

Like I said, it wouldn't kill CN yearly budget to send one field agent to Italy once a year to cover the biggest stage race for women. You can get free meals, hotels, and even media cars to take you around the course. With a little effort, a staff person can save quite a bit of money round trip. I'm sure Mario Minervino and company could put you guys up in good company within the organization.

Vitriolic? This is mild, if it was vitriolic, you would delete it, or me.

I was just venting a little about CN lack of coverage, as I said the same about Velonews, and worse, British Cycling and Cycling Weekly who I subscribed to before you were born, both have almost non existent coverage of the Women's Giro. I do have a problem with personally working for CN. First they call themselves the Centre of Cycling which they are not. Also it's an Ausse startup who moved to UK and is trying become a huge cycling conglomerate. That scares me, I don't like that. I don't believe any one particular site should be a monopoly in cycling worldwide.

However, since CN does call themselves the Centre of Cycling, why don't they live up to their name? They certainly are not the Centre of Cycling for Pro Road Women worldwide. It does bother me a bit that a small country like Australia is trying to capture and dominate both men's and women's cycling with CN and the spinoff WCN. They already have British Cycling and Cyclingweekly, now CN and WCN. Since YOU are an American and not a Brit, I would think you might be more supportive of our American counterparts. You are sort of working for the competitor, IMO, not for us! Why not take a job at Velonews, they need help and they are American!! We need to balance out this monopoly CN started, and perhaps you could help in that department! BP polluted our gulf too big time, so I'm not very happy with the Brits lately.

 

[BBRoberts]

USA races?

PC wrote...

" certainly hope that we can send correspondents to women's races in Europe in the future - the way we do with the races in the USA. "

What USA races, that's funny!!!!!

You cover a few races at best, and you don't even send your own photograper. You usually send KF to a few like Redlands, Gila, perhaps Nature valley, but that's because all our races are layered men with women. She doesn't do photo work, but just the race report. CJ does both the photo and the race reports.

Bascially what you are doing is covering the men's races, and then a few crumbs for the women as an after thought. How many world cup races for women do you actually cover in Europe? The answer is ZERO! You get photos 2nd hand from CJ and then write a small piece to go with it.

Enlighten me?

 

[BBRoberts]

CN Resources

I also wonder why CN doesn't require the same person to take photos when they get race reports? That seems like a waste of money to send a field agent to a race just to get a race report.

Bart Hazen takes both photos and does the race report, and so does Lyne from Podium Insight. She does the men and the women races, nearly all the NRC calendar plus she does photos of both mens and womens. She's not a spring chicken either, so if she can do it, why doesn't CN require their field agents to take photos along with race reports? They got it way to easy on the gravy train payroll at CN, IMO.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Enlighten me?

From what I've read of your interaction with Laura thus far, I'm not entirely sure this is possible. I will give you this bit of enlightenment though: attacking the biggest champion for women's cycling coverage on the Cyclingnews team probably isn't the best way to achieve your end-goal. Start on me too, and you'll be attacking the second biggest supporter of the women's cycling scene on our team.

Laura has taken the time to respond to your concerns; which is indicative of how passionate she is on this topic. As you’ll see from her post count, she doesn’t get involved in discussions here often.

Beyond that I’d simply like to thank you for your feedback.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[Libertine Seguros]

As for drugs positives, OK I can't think of many EPO positives, but Zinaida Stahurskaia tested positive for everything else under the Sun, and Fabiana Luperini had issues with nandrolone (debatable) and blood values (less debatable), as did Rosalisa Lapomarda. I'm also not particularly charitable to Marta Bastianelli.

I am quite sympathetic to Marta, actually. Perhaps she was careless, perhaps she was stupid, perhaps she was cynical. But whichever way you spin it, 2008 was not a nice year for her. She herself says she wasn't old enough to be a world champion, and that the jersey was 'too heavy' for her; the sudden elevated standing in the sport led her to be naïve and believe everybody who claimed to be helping her (sounds like José Rujano!), and she talks of becoming obsessed with her weight, ostensibly to race at the Giro (iirc she was about 8th in the 2008 Giro?), which is what led to diet supplements, and which is what led to the positive test. Then, obviously, she was banned, but continued to train, and had a crash in the mountains that resulted in her being found unconscious by the side of the road, and having to have reconstructive surgery on her face. And regardless of one's opinion of her sporting morals, I don't wish that on anybody.

She's returning with Fenixs, her first race day will be a week today. In some ways it's bad that she can come straight back with a half-decent team and race at the top level, but then again the depth of the women's péloton does not allow for the lower-level unofficial exile that is rather haphazardly carried out in the men's game. And on the other hand, weight loss pills will be unlikely to have the same dramatic effect on performance as EPO and CERA, so hopefully she'll still be the same rider she was - entertaining and gutsy.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I also wonder why CN doesn't require the same person to take photos when they get race reports? That seems like a waste of money to send a field agent to a race just to get a race report.

Bart Hazen takes both photos and does the race report, and so does Lyne from Podium Insight. She does the men and the women races, nearly all the NRC calendar plus she does photos of both mens and womens. She's not a spring chicken either, so if she can do it, why doesn't CN require their field agents to take photos along with race reports? They got it way to easy on the gravy train payroll at CN, IMO.

So just curious, what do you do to promote women's cycling?