March 17th 2012 Milan-Sanremo - The Primavera - 298km

[roundabout]

I was disagreeing with saying it was a stupid ride by Canc. It didn't come off, but the guy didn't do a lot wrong. He nearly won it, and got on the podium to boot. How else was Canc supposed to ride it?

Benefit of hindsight suggests sitting on Nibali and then attacking somewhere in the last 3km like 2008.

Of course it's also not a guarantee for success.

 

[hatcher]

That was the Liqui tactic apparently.

If it all came back together, sure. But Nibali and Sagan in a group of 4 over the Poggio would trump that.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Bad tactics from sky today ,1 man to serve Boasson Hagen. Sagan have a hole team. But for sure Sagan is good to climb.

how is that a dumb tactic?? you need 7 riders to carrie you over the poggio?? wel evidently ebh does. because he simply lacks the engine to ever be a force in the classics. like it or not

 

[hatcher]

"One time he's gonna have to sit up."

I think that was called Paris Roubaix '11

Slightly different scenario. At the front of a race he needs to sit up.

 

[The Hitch]

Valverde doesn't really care for the classics. He rides the hilly ones because he's too good to skip them, and sure, he's learned to appreciate them to some extent, but deep inside he'd rather win the Vuelta a Murcia than MSR or RvV.

I disagree. I would say the fact that MSR is in italy may be a bigger reason why he doesnt race it.

Also I think he maybe doesnt do quite as well in cold, or doesnt like it anyway.

I does seem to me to value the Ardennes classic, though maybe you were just using hyperbole.

And being too good to miss them, well Andy is going to miss them this year, and Contador misses them though many argue he would likely have some chance of winning them.

 

[Echoes]

They finished with the same time as the bunch. The bunch has been foiled by late attacks a few times recently (Tchmil, Pozzato, Cancellara).

The "bunch" was a small group and I'm sure there is a gap between Nibali and Sagan. I'm questioning the chrono.

Cancellara did splinter the race in 2008.

That you have to ask when was the last time a GT winner got on the podium is evidence of how un-GC man oriented it has become.

The answer, by the way, is 1995, when Jalabert won, although he was not a GT winner at the time (his first being the '95 Vuelta). To find somebody who had already won a GT appearing on the podium, you must go back to 1992, when Sean Kelly won.

And that that period is now over. I'm already optimistic for 2013 and the years to come. This is the Milan-Sanremo that I lived in my youth. Just love it.

By the way, in Flanders no GT riders on the podium since 1988 (Kelly).

He could perhaps have asked Gerrans to do more in the lead group but they both knew that if that group should survive a well-organised Katusha peloton, Fabi had to do the hard work.

Yeah exactly. Had Gerrans done more, they'd have been caught (and Sagan wasn't less a wheelsucker than Gerrans anyway). Cancellara just had to try and tire 'em out. It could've succeeded, why not? But it didn't work out. At least he tried and MADE the race.

He does not deserve all this bashing from pseudo-cycling fans.

 

[killswitch]

Benefit of hindsight suggests sitting on Nibali and then attacking somewhere in the last 3km like 2008.

Of course it's also not a guarantee for success.

Nibali was dead at the top of the Poggio.

If it all came back together, sure. But Nibali and Sagan in a group of 4 over the Poggio would trump that.

Meant that Sagan should have gone after Canc.



It seems whatever Canc does, he'll always be critisized.

 

[Sciatic]

Slightly different scenario. At the front of a race he needs to sit up.

Understood. But couldn't resist throwing that out there.

 

[Benotti69]

"One time he's gonna have to sit up."

I think that was called Paris Roubaix '11

he sat up when there the 6 or 7 riders on his wheel and no one working.

 

[roundabout]

Nibali was dead at the top of the Poggio.

I agree. But it's a split second decision whether to let two riders in very good form go and wait for a chance later on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

By the way, in Flanders no GT riders on the podium since 1988 (Kelly).

But also no sprint finishes of a group even as big as the one Sagan led home today, going back as far as the website's records take us.

Sprinters can't, and don't, win the Ronde or Roubaix. Sprinters can, and often do in recent years, win Milan-San Remo. Yes Tom Boonen can sprint, but he's not a pure sprinter the way Cipollini, or Petacchi, or Cavendish are. Those three won't win the Ronde.

I'm not saying that MSR is a sprinters' race to discredit it; the beauty of the monuments is that they are varied enough that any type of rider has at least one monument they can compete for. I see the Worlds like a monument, and they should not be flatter than San Remo, but they should not be more mountainous than Lombardia. I'm just calling it as I see it, and 10 of the last 15 editions have gone to sprints, and one of the others (2011) was won by a sprinter.

This is the one monument that the sprinters can win. It's not a guaranteed sprint the way some races are, such as the old version of Gent-Wevelgem, Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne in good weather, Vattenfall or my nemesis the Scheldeprijs (though even Paris-Tours wasn't a sprint last year), but it's still the biggest race that the pure sprinters can, and do, win.

 

[roundabout]

results

http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/MilanoSanremo/download/2012/OrdineArrivo.pdf

 

[Caruut]

yes cancellara wasn't riding dumb at all. he nearly won. just as last year he nealry won flanders instead of dropping back and finishign 9th in the bunch. he is used to everyone riding on his wheel but he doesn't care he still ride for the win. I can't wait for flanders and roubaix. he will be unstopabble as he won'd ride like last year and stop just before he reaches the first grpup. remember last year cancellara?? if he close dthe gap top vansummeren group he would've won roubaix as he still nearly won roubaix and he dropped hushovd in the flat.

Yeah when you replied to my post saying "What was he meant to do? Sit back and finish 15th?", the he was Canc, not Gerrans, was trying to clear that up

He gave himself a good chance of winning - I would say he's playing the percentages and doing it as spectacularly as he can. Win-win.

 

[Frosty]

results

http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/MilanoSanremo/download/2012/OrdineArrivo.pdf

Thanks for that. Thought they'd never come!

 

[hatcher]

Nibali was dead at the top of the Poggio.


Meant that Sagan should have gone after Canc.



It seems whatever Canc does, he'll always be critisized.

I'm certainly not criticising Cancellara; he is fantastic, but this tactic clearly isn't working for him. With 2 or 3k to go in MSR he couldn't have done anything differently, but he's going to keep finding himself in the same situation unless something changes.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Gerrans deserved it. Smart riders deserve to win over strong riders. Being smart is something you have to learn, being strong is something you're born with. These guys all train as hard... Well maybe not Cavendish and Andy Schleck, but you get what I'm saying.

Heard from a good source that Cav has one speed when he trains and it is full on.

 

[Aguirre]

in today's kind of race Valverde might be up there with gerrans... the problem is Milan-san remo is too umpredictable for Valverde,I mean, in previous years it has been considered a sprinter classic. He is fast enough, but the race is too much effort for such open result.

That's why he has skipped this race in previous and this year (btw on monday starts Volta a cataluña and he wants to win that).

The question is: is the climb of la manie adding more difficulty that in the years to come the race will be harder?

I enjoyed a lot today, the race was so fast in the last 100 km, so that's the result of such a split at the end

 

[Red Rick]

Was Cavendish okay, cause it seemed to mee that there was something wrong, beside Cavendish inalility to to defy gravity

 

[killswitch]

I'm certainly not criticising Cancellara; he is fantastic, but this tactic clearly isn't working for him. With 2 or 3k to go in MSR he couldn't have done anything differently, but he's going to keep finding himself in the same situation unless something changes.

He is too quick to respond to other attacks. In RvV last year he went on 50+ km from the finish following Tommeke's attack. Today he should have let Nibs and Gerrans alone to be caught on the descent/flat afterwards by Rabo and Katusha and then put in a decisive attack 2-3 km from the finish.

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara is just like Cavendish: one trick pony. Unfortunately for him, it doesn't work anywhere near as often. The best place for him is the cobbles.

Dumbest post in the history of this forum.

 

[Trofinios]

I'm certainly not criticising Cancellara; he is fantastic, but this tactic clearly isn't working for him. With 2 or 3k to go in MSR he couldn't have done anything differently, but he's going to keep finding himself in the same situation unless something changes.

I don't think he can apply any other tactic and be successful. He uses his strenghts and sometimes he manages to ride away solo and sometimes he don't. He recently did it in Strade Bianche, and he was also close today, but Gerrans did a great job staying on his wheel. He is also a more marked man than ever before, just because of his successful attacks. What he must do to optimize his chances of winning is to time his attacks perfectly. Last year in Flandern he went too early, otherwise he would have probably won.

 

[Echoes]

But also no sprint finishes of a group even as big as the one Sagan led home today, going back as far as the website's records take us.

Sprinters can't, and don't, win the Ronde or Roubaix. Sprinters can, and often do in recent years, win Milan-San Remo. Yes Tom Boonen can sprint, but he's not a pure sprinter the way Cipollini, or Petacchi, or Cavendish are. Those three won't win the Ronde.

Often DID !

Boonen can sprint but doesn't even seem able to cross the Poggio, right?

A sprinter can certainly not win Paris-Roubaix. I've always that race was the hardest. But they can do well in Flanders. Cipollini already top10ed in 2002.

Of course if I'm telling you that Godefroot won 1968 Tour of Flanders in a bunch of 15 you're gonna respond that it's too long ago, so I might remind you that in 2000, Andrei Tchmil barely had a 4" advantage ahead of a bunch of 20 riders (despite a mighty crash in that bunch). And Zabel was 4th.

When Devolder won the second one, he was more ahead but there was also a huge bunch for 2nd.


EDIT: Now look there's a 2" gap between Nibali and Sagan

I'm not saying that MSR is a sprinters' race to discredit it; the beauty of the monuments is that they are varied enough that any type of rider has at least one monument they can compete for.

But it IS discrediting. Those guys could stay in wheels all day long. There should not be any major classic which they can compete for. In 70's/80's, Paris-Tours was raced in opposite direction in order to avoid this. The beauty of a classic is that no sprinter can win it.

I do believe that as far as Milan-Sanremo is concerned, we're witnessing the end of an era. How can anyone believe that a race of 300km after a few hills can end up in a bunch sprint. In the last 7 editions, 4-3. We're going to see fewer and fewer sprints in the years to come. Mark my words !

 

[The Hitch]

I'm glad Simon Gerrans won actually, unlike you

You mean you are glad Cancellara lost

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not so sure. When you have a race plan, you commit to it. He went on the poggio. It was his best shot, and liquigas's best shot at that moment.

Imagine if he didn't get in there? Nibali didn't add much, and it still would have been Cancellara and Gerrans going down the chute together, with the rest of us bashing Liquigas for missing the move.

Sometimes you just get beat. Sagan couldn't mark the move, and Nibali had nothing left to try in the last few k's.

It was Nibali who attacked though. Maybe if he didnt gerrans wouldnt have attacked then.

Cancellara was way back when it happened. He came to join them only about 10 seconds later

 

[DominicDecoco]

For all the posters who ***** about wheelsucking, i have never heard any seasoned pro go on like some of the posters here who get so upset about it.

Sitting on a wheel, as is the correct term, is part of the sport.

This should be a sticky message on every thread.