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Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

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Bolder

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Carrick-On-Seine said:
Ouch that clickbait headline.
Both Fabio and Cav deserve to go to the Tour but only one can really go and Fabio is just as big a name in West Flanders ;)
Maybe Cav should just say thanks it was great but I want to ride the Tour, and replace Viviani at Cofidis who love throwing money at sprinters,
Click to expand...

Honestly Cav needs to leave DQS, if only to prove that it's not just about their sprint train at his age.

But that could be a double-edged sword. I lean toward it now being mostly about the sprint train...as much as I loved watching Cav at his best. But i'd be happy to be proved wrong...

I understand both his and Lefevere's negotiating positions but it's rather unseemly for Lefevere to litigate a contract negotiation in the press so baldly.
 
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titan31

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Ya, Lefevre is going about this all wrong but I'd agree with him on picking Jakobsen over Cav for the Tour. He's younger and more of a future with the team, and whilst Cav is better in the past, not sure he's better now or that he can beat Jakobsen if he moved team. Cav is still worth signing but not for the Tour (unless Jakobsen gets hurt)
 
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BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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I would totally go with Jakobsen over Cavendish - but that's it. The normal thing would be to say to Cavendish: "These are the conditions under which we will give you a contract, if you want something better please feel free to find another team to give you that." There is absolutely no reason to say things like he does in the press. It's bad from a human point of view but it also makes zero sense from an economic/ PR one, the only thing he achieves is that he looks despicable and Cavendish who's still a rider of his team and might (probably not now) be one next year is disparaged. With him treating so many riders with pedigree this way lately eventually I'm sure some riders will think twice about whether they will go to this team and take this on them. And as a possible sponsor I wouldn't like this "PR" either.
He has always been like that but he's really taking it to new heights recently and I really wonder what the state of the team is behind the scenes.
 
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Barnacle Bill

Barnacle Bill

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PL sure does like doing his negotiating with the help of the press, guess he sees it as a way of applying a bit of pressure and we get one side of the story, much like the "Cav doesn't want to do the Tour on his current contract" to dampen the public perception that Cav was desperate to do the Tour in any condition. It's pretty common for cyclists at the end of their career to want to stay involved in pro cycling and move on to the staff but somehow this usually happens seamlessly without the ambitions/negotiations being mocked in public.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Cav said he’s fine with not riding the Tour and PL just wants to pay him less. Or he is willing to be paid less but wants to be on the other side of the team when he retires.

Bolder said:
Honestly Cav needs to leave DQS, if only to prove that it's not just about their sprint train at his age.

But that could be a double-edged sword. I lean toward it now being mostly about the sprint train...as much as I loved watching Cav at his best.
Click to expand...
He and the team already showed that this year with only 1 stage win having a leadout. 4/5 sprints they got overtaken by another team and Cav had to do it himself. What they were EXCELLENT at was getting him through the mountains, bringing the break back, and keeping him safe in the final km. But on a lesser team they won’t have to work as much like when he was on Dimension Data. He beat the others with his brains, slipstream, and saving his kick closer compared to him sprinting like before. The others had higher speeds, he just outsmarted and rode them. If he can still do that next year is the question.
First stage win he is 9 riders back, 3 behind Philipsen, sprints up himself to Philipsen’s wheel and comes off of it.
View: https://youtu.be/ZN5VEplEovg


He comes off Morkov’s wheel with 250 to go onto Philipsen’s and comes around them to win. Philipsen did have a higher top speed then him. Could he have won staying on Morkov’s wheel? Maybe but he would have had to do a big dig to come up to Merlier.
View: https://youtu.be/WyY5QxLgWPA


Third win was picture perfect leadout. Textbook. Leadout of the year.
View: https://youtu.be/3rpUtP07Jto


Fourth win the leadout completely disintegrated and panicked when they got over taken (something that happens A LOT to Quickstep, at least when Cav is on the team). Team is overtaken at the turn with I believe 750 to go. By 500 they are still behind. At 450 Ballerini goes off the front and Cav got knocked off Morkov’s wheel, sees he has a gap and goes for it. Morkov looks behind at 300 to go and Cav isn’t on his wheel and doesn’t see him. Morkov doesn’t look behind again. Morkov goes for it himself since Cav still hasn’t passed him (he is even going faster then Philipsen is) and only realizes Cav is coming when he blows by him with 25 to go.

View: https://youtu.be/xOx0lwtB3NQ

View: https://youtu.be/x4fckLqSbrw


Final stage he contested he got boxed in choosing to come off Morkov’s wheel and slot behind WVA. BUT Quickstep was overtaken again. If he stayed on Morkov’s wheel, maybe he wins but Morkov was 6 riders back so he would have had to sprint past everyone against a very good TJV leadout. If the road was a little more open, Philipsen didn’t close the gap, or his position and Philipsen’s are switched maybe he wins. It’s hard to say as his third win WVA was sprinting faster then him by about 4 km/hr
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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titan31 said:
He's younger and more of a future with the team, and whilst Cav is better in the past, not sure he's better now or that he can beat Jakobsen if he moved team.
Click to expand...
One is 8-2 vs Philipsen and curbstomped him while the other is 2-2 after Philipsen raced his second Grand Tour. Next year is completely different as Fabio will naturally be better or should the more miles in his legs and Cav getting older. As much as people hate on the riders Cav beat, they were better then the ones Fabio beat. Depending on the route, it might be good for Fabio to do like Kittel and Greipel with riding the first couple flat stages of the Giro and withdrawing. Gets another Grand Tour in his legs and potentially confidence with some wins.
 
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titan31

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SHAD0W93 said:
One is 8-2 vs Philipsen and curbstomped him while the other is 2-2 after Philipsen raced his second Grand Tour. Next year is completely different as Fabio will naturally be better or should the more miles in his legs and Cav getting older. As much as people hate on the riders Cav beat, they were better then the ones Fabio beat. Depending on the route, it might be good for Fabio to do like Kittel and Greipel with riding the first couple flat stages of the Giro and withdrawing. Gets another Grand Tour in his legs and potentially confidence with some wins.
Click to expand...

The only team thats are available for Cav to go that would give him a lead out are likes of Cofidis or some PCT teams. He won't get a spot at any GC team and other teams already have a sprinter (Bora, Lotto, FDJ). Cofidis is probably the best option there and he's not beating Jakobsen off the DQS train imo at a team like that (never mind that there's also WVA, Ewan and Bennett likely there)
 
Rackham

Rackham

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titan31 said:
The only team thats are available for Cav to go that would give him a lead out are likes of Cofidis or some PCT teams. He won't get a spot at any GC team and other teams already have a sprinter (Bora, Lotto, FDJ). Cofidis is probably the best option there and he's not beating Jakobsen off the DQS train imo at a team like that (never mind that there's also WVA, Ewan and Bennett likely there)
Click to expand...

What about Israel start-up?

With Greipel retiring surely there's a spot there. And Sylvain Adams (their boss) doesn't seem to have a problem spending big on old stars.

And considering his current condition, Cavendish is way less of a gamble than Froome was.
 
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titan31

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Rackham said:
What about Israel start-up?

With Greipel retiring surely there's a spot there. And Sylvain Adams (their boss) doesn't seem to have a problem spending big on old stars.

And considering his current condition, Cavendish is way less of a gamble than Froome was.
Click to expand...

Sure, but I'd consider them in same group as Cofidis as being tiers under the likes of DQS or Lotto as trains. Both probably about the same level in sprint train potential when you look at the roster (Dowsett, Vanmarcke, Zabel etc Vs Allegert, Thomas,Geschke) and both are likely to have a split focus with guys like Woods, Hermans, G Martin on their teams. In comparison, Lotto will likely go all in again if Ewan is selected and are stronger, DQS are stronger even if the split focus and then WVA and Bennett have just been faster in general. Seems unlikely Cav can win at the Tour outside of DQS. He'd be better off resigning there (if possible) and look for the Giro and the smaller stage races.
 
SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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titan31 said:
The only team thats are available for Cav to go that would give him a lead out are likes of Cofidis or some PCT teams. He won't get a spot at any GC team and other teams already have a sprinter (Bora, Lotto, FDJ). Cofidis is probably the best option there and he's not beating Jakobsen off the DQS train imo at a team like that (never mind that there's also WVA, Ewan and Bennett likely there)
Click to expand...
Depends on if the train is overtaken as usual. Bora, Lotto, and AF all have trains that rival or are better than Quickstep's. TJV also has a good train when focused on. AF had more control this year on the stages then Quickstep did to set up their sprinter in the final km and won 1 out of 3 stages. They aren't HTC. All Cav needs is to get to 500m-1km to go. But would have to beat Merlier, Ewan, Groenewegen, Bennett, and WVA. All of whom have a faster acceleration then him now and most likely Jakobsen as well next year.
 
Rackham

Rackham

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titan31 said:
Sure, but I'd consider them in same group as Cofidis as being tiers under the likes of DQS or Lotto as trains. Both probably about the same level in sprint train potential when you look at the roster (Dowsett, Vanmarcke, Zabel etc Vs Allegert, Thomas,Geschke) and both are likely to have a split focus with guys like Woods, Hermans, G Martin on their teams. In comparison, Lotto will likely go all in again if Ewan is selected and are stronger, DQS are stronger even if the split focus and then WVA and Bennett have just been faster in general. Seems unlikely Cav can win at the Tour outside of DQS. He'd be better off resigning there (if possible) and look for the Giro and the smaller stage races.
Click to expand...

It looks like DQS don't want to take Cavendish to the Tour next year, so he probably has to make a decision based on how much he wants to beat that Merckx record.

A team like Israel doesn't have the train, doesn't have the race craft & doesn't have the same power, but, they could offer him a guaranteed Tour start not just next year but the year after as well if he maintains his form. So he could get multiple chances to chase that record.

And if the sticking point in the negotiations is really about money, then Cavendish & Lefevere probably deserve each other. IMO.
 
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RedheadDane

RedheadDane

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Rackham said:
It looks like DQS don't want to take Cavendish to the Tour next year, so he probably has to make a decision based on how much he wants to beat that Merckx record.
Click to expand...

And how much he wanna go to the Copenhagen Grand Depart as a rider.
He pretty much told Danish reporters that - no matter what - he will be heading to Denmark next summer. Maybe he'll go undercover as a mechanic.
 
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titan31

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yaco said:
Bike Exchange has one of the best lead out riders Mezgec in the peleton - Their squad could provide a decent lead out - Anyway, I hope the team keeps their dollars for another rider.
Click to expand...

He's been awful this year but I can't see BikeExchange going for Cav over Matthews. That and with Yates and Hamilton, they'll at least split their team for GC so Cav would probably only have 3 guys working for him there. I'd say Cofidis or ISN are better fits, or even someone like Intermarche if they can afford him and Kristoff would work in a lead out.
 
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